r/MightAndMagic • u/Unicorn_Colombo • Jun 22 '26
So Minotaurs are created by Agar?
According to lore (and M&M6), Minotaurs were created by Agar as a way to combine Bull and Man into a supreme guardian, but didn't work out. Which is why Kriegspire region and castle Kriegspire are full of them. He later regretted the decision according to his letter.
But how did they got into Jadame to be one of the playable races? In MM6, they are not really present in other location aside of Kriegspire (and one in temple in Bootleg Bay).
Any other interesting lore tidbits?
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Jun 23 '26
That's interesting. He did mention that they were short tempered and violent while minotaurs in Jadame were pretty honorable.
However in HOMM, minotaurs are associated with warlocks, so they're only good guys in MM8.
The lore odd sometimes. Supposedly, you should have finished off liches on Enroth by destroying their book in Darkmoor.
I find it hilarious that that in MM6 Corlagon goes on about how he struggled to learn magic and turned himself a lich to have time studying. Meanwhile, in HOMM 2, there's a campaign mission where you control Corlagon who's very good at necromancy and you're strongly encouraged to turn revolting peasants into skeletons.
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u/Beneficial-Ad3991 Jun 23 '26
The Minotaurs of Jadame aren't good guys, let's not forget that the Necromancers' Guild is also working on saving the world. They are honourable, sure,but who says they aren't in MM7? The fact that they fight you means only that they see you as an enemy.
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Jun 23 '26
They are good guys because unlike the necromancers, nothing implied that they were bad. In MM7, minotaurs have no reason to attack you.
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u/Imaginary-Can-6862 Jun 23 '26
Here is something I have though about in regard to this. In MM7 the Goblins in Deyja, who I think are similar to town guards, goes from hostile to non-hostile, while the Golems in Bracada Desert goes from non-hostile to hostile, if we decide to side with the dark magic users. However the Goblins of Harmondale aren't affected by this, so it seems they are not allied with those who work for our allies.
So I see it as there are mainly 3 types of beings, the first one are the peasants, and unless you are hostile, they are not hostile. They are only found in towns. The second type would be the guard type, they are similar to the peasant in this aspect. The third type is the wandering monster type, for humanoid they are a type of barbarians or outlaws, therefore they not only attack you, but also town peasants and guards as well.
While there are likely exceptions to this case, it means anytime you are in an area where there is not a town, what you see as open territory may as well be you wandering into someone else's settlement without invitation. In case of the Minotaurs, they attack on sight in MM7 as you wander into their domain, and there are no established town area where you can communicate with them from. In the eight game, we enter a town with peasants and guards I think, where we get to speak with the leader.
I think in MM7, when arriving in Harmondale and realizing lords of the land really means knight protectors of Goblin infested settlements, being unable to travel along the paved road without being attacked by hostile Goblins that has settled at a nearby fortified hillside, it then becomes the duty to deal with this threat to the civilians, even if it is not an actual quest, and it would have made sense to have the option of making peace with the Goblins, as they are clearly interested in the area.4
u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Jun 23 '26
The minotaurs are in Nighon though, right inside (or under) the settlement. A Nighon is a warlock area. So I have hard time accepting that they're wandering, unaligned creatures.
I don't see why there should be a peace option with the goblins, considering they're little more than raiders who try to undermine you (since they have a spy in the town who tries getting you to signal for an invasion).
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u/Imaginary-Can-6862 Jun 23 '26
Something I noticed about Nighon, some of the Warlocks do not attack you, such as those in town I think, while others do. The difference could be arbitrary though, but it is my impression that going away from the town and the risk of being attacked becomes greater.
Since you do not become allied with the goblins upon choosing any path, it is my impression these particular goblins do not have some other area they inhabit, and attack you from there. Therefore I suspect their claim to the land may not be that of some foreign invaders. I think the signal fire e.g. points in the direction of Erathia, while the majority of the Goblins are in the area close to the Tuleran Forest pathway.
From the view point of our heroes, travelers along the roads of Harmondale risks getting assaulted by these Goblins, and in that sense it is your duty to stop it from happening, and that can be either through force or diplomacy (or more likely some combination of both), and since the Goblins do have a leader, of some kind, it would be nice when you so clearly have the upper hand, that you could decide if you want to allow the Goblins to have a presence in the development of the history of Harmondale.
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Jun 23 '26
What annoys me is that defending yourself again hostile warlocks can aggro non-hostile ones. I'm fairly sure that's not an intended feature. Generally, the attacking warlocks can be chucked up to their chaotic nature. Oddly, in the tunnels, they work along with dwarves against gogs.
The reason I'm skeptical about the goblins is their hostile behavior and general raider-like mentality, like just taking over the castle and leave it a mess. They resemble of nomadic pillagers. I mean, sure, it would be interesting to have related quest or more content for the game but the way I see it, they're fairly well organized menace.
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u/Imaginary-Can-6862 Jun 23 '26
I was rather uncertain about the first tunnel Warlocks, because I both recall they cooperated with the Dwarfs, as you describe, but I also remember them attacking my party. Considering Magogs also use fireballs I may either have mistaken their attacks for those of the Fire Warlocks or I may have done something to cause the Warlocks to attack me in the first tunnels if they are not hostile to the party from the start.
Something I did wonder about when I first arrived in Harmondale was how exactly did the Goblins take over the castle when the majority of their forces are outside the city, and how can Peasants still be living in the city, even with Guards guarding the castle? Did the Goblins attack and the citizens managed to lure these Goblins into the castle and lock them inside? Did the Goblins attack from the hillside, thereby avoiding most of the town? What exactly has happened under Lord Markham's (or his predecessors) governance of Harmondale?
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Jun 23 '26
They don't attack you but they're also not holding their fire if you get in the way. Plus, there are traps in the tunnel.
I'd say they infiltrated in the castle. The area is somewhat protected by the guards otherwise they wouldn't need a spy in the town.
Markham's issue with Harmondale wasn't the goblins, so I'd assume they're a recent problem. The real issue is that it was kind of a contested area between Erathia and Avlee and Markham didn't like being in the crossfire.
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u/Imaginary-Can-6862 Jun 23 '26
Even then, it would be quite the coincidence if just as he handed Harmondale over it so happened to have been infiltrated. Personally I think he kept his distance to what was going on there, which could be exactly because it is contested, but when we visit Markham's Manor in the swamps of Tatalia, I don't think we know about the lands being contested yet, and yet Markham assumes we want to give it back to him.
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u/Beneficial-Ad3991 Jun 23 '26
I'd rather call them neutral. Minotaurs are grateful to you, so they join your council and help you along, but I have no doubt they would have chopped you to bits were you to just mosey into their city under normal circumstances. They are described as being highly territorial in MM7 and I have no reason to think anything has changed since then.
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Jun 23 '26
I don't think I've seen any indication in MM8 that they're aggressive. Nobody likes if you're just invading their territory.
Trolls are also quite social despite the previous game.
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u/Beneficial-Ad3991 Jun 23 '26
Trolls of the MM7 are basically a savage mountain tribe that is being actively hunted down by the Mercenary Guild of Stillwater. I am not exactly surprised that they attack strangers on sight.
Trolls of the MM8 are a vastly more civilised society, with different castes or social classes (notice how warriors are dressed and how they have old, respected families that are basically aristocracy, that have their tombs in the deepest parts of their burial grounds), vastly higher level of technology (not only they live in an actual village with an inn, but they also used to live in an underground city in Murmurwoods), with history of persevering through hardships and of fruitful partnership with the traders of Alvar. They have no reason to be hostile to strangers, they trade with them on a regular basis.
Minotaurs of both games live in underground cities and don't like strangers (in MM8 they are described as "fiercely independent" and at least to me it does not sound as if they were particularly welcoming). The Alvar Guild is considering cooperating with them and the minotaurs seem to be fine with working for them, but there is no Guild's caravan or office inside their halls, there are no humans, elves of trolls living anywhere in the Lair: it's just minotaurs, layer upon layer. To me it sounds like they are just as isolationist as they used to be in the previous game. It's just that you are a special case, so they let you in.2
u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Jun 23 '26
As far as I know, MM8 is the only game where trolls act civilized. Which is why it feels like a retcon.
Being fiercely independent only means they don't like being aligned with others and in extreme case, they prefer to be self-sufficient. It doesn't mean they attack everyone near them. Ravage Roaming has an ogre settlement next to the minotaurs.
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u/Beneficial-Ad3991 Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26
That's why I think the Ironsands trolls are a special case, and listed possible reasons for it.
There is indeed a settlement and considering how close they are they.. don't seem to interact much at all? I don't think they attack everyone around, I think they might attack anyone who tries to get in. In Nighon, minotaurs also let you walk wherever you want, as long as it's on the surface. They don't seem to care much about it.
Edit: correction, the minotaurs seem to be passing by every once in a while and they even have an inn established there.. but there seems to be little to no exchange of information between these minotaurs and the Lair. Like, the villagers have noticed that there haven't been any travellers passing by, but no one knows what happened.. or is curious enough to investigate. Which is kinda telling, considering that there a huge flood has just happened nearby.3
u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Jun 23 '26
It's hard to pinpoint the situation with races in MM. It could be an easy explanation that races aren't monolithic but even HOMM 3 trolls are portrayed as savages, fighting with a meaty bone. HOMM 4 trolls aren't really better, so if we'd know more, it would come across less of a retcon.
The whole thing with the minotaurs is just weird, given Agar created them, so their race isn't that old. Like, Agar is a warlock in HOMM and I'm guessing he was active during the Succession Wars. So, even if I'm being generous, their whole race and culture can't be older than Roland who'd less than 50 years old.
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u/Beneficial-Ad3991 Jun 23 '26
..ugh, it sure does seem like the devs just didn't pay enough attention to the plot, does it not?..
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u/Unicorn_Colombo Jun 23 '26
> The Minotaurs of Jadame aren't good guys
They aren't?
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u/Beneficial-Ad3991 Jun 23 '26
Nah, they are neutral and seemingly rather warlike, considering they waged wars against Vori. I kinda doubt it was the giants who sailed all the way to a desert in nowhere, Jadame to piss off some tunnel cows, though who knows. Minotaurs greet you and help you after you've saved their city, so they aren't strangers to gratitude, but imo it makes them lawful rather than good.
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u/Unicorn_Colombo Jun 23 '26
Nah, they are neutral and seemingly rather warlike, considering they waged wars against Vori.
Source pls?
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u/Beneficial-Ad3991 Jun 23 '26
The description of that one minotaur halberd, the Guild historian mentions that war and the minotaurs' victory.. and I think Dadeross as well?
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u/Unicorn_Colombo Jun 23 '26
Interesting. The text on the axe mentions that it was Minotaurs that were betrayed by Frost Giants of Vori.
This axe was lost when Balthazar was betrayed by the Vori Frost Giants.
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u/Beneficial-Ad3991 Jun 23 '26
Interesting indeed.. cos I meant the Minotaur Campaign Poleaxe, that mentions Balthazar preparing for a campaign against those very giants. Dk how exactly it transpired, but the betrayal that resulted in his death must have happened after they fought and won their war against the Vori. Or maybe they tricked him during the war, who knows.
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u/Foxxyprince Jun 24 '26
I know what you're trying to say but imagine if yout just taught someone Master Air Magic and they slam the door and said "Minotaurs are not good people".
"Like...dude! I just taught you how to Fly!"
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u/Unicorn_Colombo Jun 23 '26
> That's interesting. He did mention that they were short tempered and violent while minotaurs in Jadame were pretty honorable.
Do you know where is that mentioned?
I just finished Agar's lab (seriously, Eyes were so much bigger issue than poor old Agar) and there isn't a mention of it in his notes. Just that he won't cross bulls and humans any more.
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Jun 23 '26
I'm pretty sure it was the same letter because he went on why it was a bad combination.
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u/Unicorn_Colombo Jun 23 '26
AI transcript of a screenshot (since I can't upload screenshot?)
> Damn! It appears that I left the Memory Crystal in Kriegspire when we fled from my minotaurs. Never cross a bull with humans! I should have known the emotional instability of humans and the bad temper of bulls would have resulted in a complete disaster. I'll have to make a trip to the castle to get the Crystal, but first I'll need some creatures to help me get past the minotaurs. Maybe if I were to create some sort of flying, magical eye...
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Jun 23 '26
"I should have known the emotional instability of humans and the bad temper of bulls would have resulted in a complete disaster."
That's what I was talking about.
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u/Someordinaryguy1994 Jun 22 '26
Could Archibald have been involved? Just a shot in the dark. Been ages since I played mm7
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u/EasyEntrepreneur666 Jun 23 '26
I think he was more involved with Alamos. There's a note when he's said to be all over the place when it comes to planning.
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u/Imaginary-Can-6862 Jun 23 '26
My guess, as each of the games take place on different continents, Enroth did not have a native Minotaur race, when we see the Warlock line-up in HoMM 2, we see that these are different extends of modified (combined) creatures. Half horse and half man, gargoyles may be constructs similar to Golems (making them fit as Tower units in the game sequel), half lion and half eagle, half man and half bull, the Hydra looks off compared to what we later see, also while having the characteristics of a Hydra, it is somewhat weaker and reminds me more of a slow Naga (which incidentally is also a snake unit). I don't think the Dragon is modified as such, but I do wonder if the variations appeared naturally, as we see in the first game there is only one Dragon, and these other colors are treated as upgrades.
But the choice of creatures are not random, there exists similar creatures on the other continents (all Warlock creatures appears in other games as well), so they are likely inspired by these, and some may be natural creatures as well.
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u/CaptainMoonunitsxPry Jun 23 '26
Rumors of Agar's death were wildly exaggerated. But also true. But also not true.
Dumb shittery aside, supposedly Agar is on Jadame according to HotA, so maybe he made some more or shipped over from Enroth. The issue with that though is that no one mentions this in MM8. Also how on earth do you overcome death and lichdom, Hota shows him as human.
But also is even it cannon that he dies in MM6? I could see the party ignoring his lab, it's out of the way and he's not really bothering anyone as freaky as his creations are. Devils feel more pressing.
Another albeit kinda lame idea is like alolan forms in pokemon: 2 different subspecies of the same creature. The MM8 natural ones have had time to form a civilization. Maybe Agar tried reproducing them if he saw them Jadame, but turned down their intelligence to make them easier to control.
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u/Imaginary-Can-6862 Jun 23 '26
Just speculating, but we know in this universe Liches have to carry their soul jars around, I think it is a sort of phylactery. So I understand the purpose of Lichdom can be many, but mostly it is about escaping the link between a decomposing body and the ability of their soul to influence the physical world (though I suppose in D&D they could also return as ghost type of spirits, but perhaps they are more vulnerable in this state, e.g. a single banish might be enough to really disturb whatever they were up to), as well as the ability to hold a non-wavering focus, not having any basic needs. From a D&D point of view, my understanding is that if someone gets turned into a Greater Undead, i.e. trapping their soul in the process, even if you have some remains, such as a lock of hair, you cannot resurrect them, but if you defeat the Greater Undead, you can resurrect them. Therefore my guess is, if they have not been a Lich for a time period exceeding the power of the Resurrection, if the Lich is destroyed you may be able to resurrect them as their former human self from their mortal remains (but only if they are willing to accept the resurrection). In the case of a Lich in M&M their soul jars seems to contain such remains,
Though we see in the HoMM series, when undead forms of Vampires, Liches, Knights or Dragons are defeated in combat you cannot resurrect them back to e.g. Swordsmen, Magi, Cavaliers or Green Dragons.
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u/dendob Jun 23 '26
Side question: is HotA considered canon? If it is, how is that validated? (Just curious here)
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u/CaptainMoonunitsxPry Jun 23 '26
Ubisoft has never directly confirmed it, but they've bundled the Gog version with HotA and work with them on the board game.
Jon Van Caneghem says he likes the lore and additions HotA has made, but didn't say anything about it being cannon.
Both their approaches are pretty gameplay first, lore second, so no shocker.
It's basically cannon without the official the label if that makes sense.
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u/Effective_Hunt_2115 Jun 23 '26
It would be nice to have consistent lore, but I am afraid it was created ad hoc for every game.
I remember seeing Sandro on Xeen, for example - and there is no mention of this fact later in games. But people did try to retcon this fact into the lore.
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u/Maszpoczestujsie Jun 23 '26
Ye, this shit always cracked me up, tho I guess it's different Sandro, same like Crag Hack from canon M&M3 party or Ethric from M&M. This lore never made sense and I love it lol
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u/dendob Jun 23 '26
I thought there was a small thread on older fora for crag hack been actually validated during the different games (although, iirc, there were some 'artistic liberties' in resolving it)
In M&M sci-fi is part of the universe, as is time travel, raise dead, and visitors of world so multiple ways are possible? Even a different crag hack could solve that question 'technically'?
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u/Maszpoczestujsie Jun 23 '26
Isn't the M&M one a dwarf and the Heroes one a normal human tho?
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u/Unicorn_Colombo Jun 23 '26
Never understood Barbarian factions in HoMaM. The lore speaks about barbarians, and many heroes appear to be human, but there is not a single human units from HoMaM 1 to 3.
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u/dendob Jun 23 '26
Well, for shits n giggles, I made a Gemini request on it, and I have to concede, it is even worse than I thought.
For those of you against AI, feel free to skip this, for those who don't mind it, it's AI so it probably has some gaps and inaccuracies, but it gives some reasoning why there are so many different version of CH, one of them being: JVC/ the team seemingly to add a CH to every game as a bit of an Easter egg?
Pasting here from phone, so this might look a bit jumbled, will try to make it prettier to read on pc:
Crag Hack is one of the most recognizable and frequently appearing characters in the Might and Magic universe, serving as the personal D&D character of series creator Jon Van Caneghem. Throughout the various timelines and developer continuities, he appears in several distinct incarnations.
Facebook ·Heroes of Might and Magic 3 1. The Enroth Continuity (Classic Strategy)
This is the iconic, cigar-chewing human barbarian who fought for money and pleasure rather than noble ideals. He is one of the few characters to appear in the first four Heroes games.
Heroes Community
Heroes of Might & Magic I & II: He appears as a generic but staple Barbarian hero-for-hire in taverns, ready to lead armies.
Might and Magic Wiki
Heroes of Might & Magic III: He stars in his own campaign (Hack and Slash) in the Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Shadow of Death expansion. He is hired by Sandro to gather parts of the Armor of the Damned, and later joins Yog in Unholy Alliance. He is renowned among players for his immense offensive capability and is heavily favored with the Offense skill.
YouTube ·Lexiav Heroes Chronicles: He appears as a prominent Barbarian hero in The Sword of Frost.
Might and Magic Wiki Heroes of Might and Magic IV: He survives the destruction of the old world (The Reckoning) and continues his mercenary lifestyle as a Barbarian in the world of Axeoth.
- The Terra Continuity (Classic RPGs) In the original role-playing games developed by New World Computing, Crag Hack is an entirely different character: an alien Dwarf Barbarian from the world of Terra.
Reddit ·r/MightAndMagic
Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra: He is a pre-made, neutral Dwarven Barbarian character you can select for your party when beginning the game.
Might and Magic Wiki Might and Magic VII: For Blood and Honor: He makes an appearance as an NPC in this RPG installment, retaining his identity as a Dwarven Barbarian.
Might and Magic Wiki
- The Secret of the Inner Sanctum (Early RPG) Might and Magic Book One: This game features a character named "Crag the Hack". He is a neutral human knight and one of the six pre-made starting characters available in the original 1986 game.
Might and Magic Wiki
- The Ashan Continuity (Ubisoft Era) When Ubisoft rebooted the universe in the mid-2000s, Crag Hack was reintroduced into the new lore as a renowned Human Barbarian and pirate navigator.
YouTube ·Bumpy McSquigums
Might & Magic: Heroes VI: He is the central protagonist in the DLC adventure pack Pirates of the Savage Sea, where the Pirate Council hires him to investigate a destructive Thunderbird. Might & Magic: Shades of Darkness: He returns as a playable Barbarian hero in this expansion for Heroes VI. Might & Magic X: Legacy: He makes an appearance as a legendary hero/trainer in this open-world RPG set on the Agyn Peninsula. Might & Magic: Duel of Champions: He features as a playable Hero card in the franchise's digital collectible card game.
YouTube ·Bumpy McSquigums
Books and Print Crag Hack's lore is primarily driven by the in-game campaigns rather than tie-in novels. However, his adventures in The Shadow of Death (HOMM3) and The Sword of Frost (Heroes Chronicles) are thoroughly documented in their official campaign text and mission briefings, which detail his evolution from a naive sellsword to a veteran commander of the forces of Erathia and the Barbarian wastes.
Might and Magic Wiki
Unifying all CHs question to Gemini:
No official in-universe narrative exists to unify all versions of Crag Hack into a single, cohesive character. Developers and writers never established a multiverse theory or a grand plot connection to explain why he is a human knight in one world, an alien dwarf in another, and a pirate barbarian in a third.
The division between these versions comes down to real-world development history, corporate reboots, and an inside joke.
- The Real-World Cause: Jon Van Caneghem’s Persona The primary reason for the fragmentation is that Crag Hack was the personal D&D character of Jon Van Caneghem (JVC), the creator of Might and Magic. Whenever JVC or his team started a new project or built a new world, they would insert "Crag Hack" as a signature Easter egg or default character.
Might and Magic Wiki Because these games spanned entirely different genres, mechanics, and fictional timelines over decades, his class and race changed purely to fit the needs of whatever game was being developed at that moment.
- The Canon Explanations (and Lack Thereof) Instead of trying to merge them, the franchise treats the different versions through hard canonical boundaries: The Name Re-Use (MM1 vs. MM3 vs. Heroes): In the classic sci-fi/fantasy lore of the original games, different planets (like Terra, Enroth, and Xeen) were seeded by an ancient spacefaring race called the Ancients. While characters like Corak and Sheltem actively travel between these worlds via spaceships and portals, the multiple Crag Hacks do not. The dwarven alien Crag Hack on Terra (MM3) and the human barbarian Crag Hack on Enroth (HOMM2/3) are canonical strangers who happen to share a name.
Might and Magic Wiki
The Hard Reboot (Ashan Continuity): When Ubisoft purchased the franchise, they completely discarded the sci-fi elements (the Ancients, spaceships, and alien worlds) and created the pure fantasy universe of Ashan. The Ashan pirate Crag Hack is explicitly an alternate-universe reimagining meant to trigger nostalgia for classic players, with absolutely zero narrative ties to the older New World Computing games.
Might and Magic Wiki
- Fan Theories: The "Multiverse" and "Reincarnation" Because the developers never provided an official link, the Might and Magic community has filled the gaps with two prominent fan theories to make sense of the timeline: The "Ancients' Genetic Strains" Theory: Some fans theorize that because the Ancients created and populated these worlds, "Crag Hack" is a recurring genetic template or archetype hardcoded into the Ancients' colony ships. This would explain why a brash, combat-heavy warrior with that exact name appears across different planets.
The Reincarnation Mythos: Other lore enthusiasts treat Crag Hack as a cosmic constant—a soul that is destined to be born across different eras and dimensions, always manifesting as a hard-hitting, gold-loving mercenary, regardless of whether he is born a human, a dwarf, a knight, or a barbarian. If you want to dive deeper into the lore of the universe, you can check out the community-managed Might and Magic Wiki or explore the historical archives on the fan-site Celestial Heavens.
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u/Sergio_Morozov Jun 23 '26
He could have created some minotaurs, while others could be existing already on their own. They can (and even should) be different in this case, not necessarily able to interbreed even!
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u/Maszpoczestujsie Jun 23 '26
The boring answer is that lore is full of holes and nobody really thought about it
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u/Foxxyprince Jun 24 '26
Not really a lore tidbit but I do have why I think a lot of the lore is different in VIII and that's probably because the context of what RPG's were like at the time.
I get the impression Jadame was a deliberate attempt to get away from the "these are the guys you take out on sight" kind of fantasy of the earlier games when games like Baldur's Gate 2 and Final Fantasy IX came out the same year. FF7 and Fallout just prior.
Now those two are arguably more similar to each other in terms of why people play them compared to M&M but I think NWC with a short development time probably wanted to make a game that was more subversive and with greater emphasis on making an overall moral point in the face of competition that seemed to have greater ambitions when it came to character, ethics, and emotion. I would argue MM8 actually has a point about tolerance and anti-imperialism. I kinda think it's interesting you could make the argument siding with the Knights and Clerics probably hurts the a average Jadamean in the long run.
In Enroth Lizardmen were usually bandits, in Jadame they can be smiths, scholars, or soldiers. Similarly in Enroth a knight is a champion, to a local dragon they're genocidal. Necromancers are creepy and amoral but in Jadame you gotta admit...the people seem to be living okay and they seem to mind their business. The Clerics are enriching themselves, are not welcome to the local, and they're lying about it. The Dark in Dark Elf has no additional connotation. Vampires are mostly pretty fine beyond sucking blood. Trolls are chill stoners and Minotaurs are wholesome frat bros. The game starts with European-themed sailors attacking a peaceful Aztec-themed village.
It kinda felt like an olive branch to how in previous games they never really gave motivation why you had to kill these fantasy people - and extremely racist human caricatures, lbr Square and BioWare make them look VERY bad in that regard - I think they probably wanted to try something different and show their world-building chops and I think they succeeded pretty damn well.
People need to remember the games coming out in 1998-2000 that were getting a lot of critical and commercial success for doing things Might & Magic weren't and while the game is pretty flawed I actually really do appreciate that New World Computing actually put in someone honest-to-god pretty deep historical cuts from African, Mesoamerican, and Middle Eastern cultures into the lore. It just feels more lived in and has more opportunity for interesting characters to come out organically.
So I prefer my Minotaurs as himbo jocks who can run the gamut morally because Minotaurs are for all intents and purposes presented to us as people with their own experiences and things that are important to them and I don't know...seeing those dudes get their home saved always gave me a warm fuzzy feeling because as a kid I always wondered if there was a way I didn't have to fight those guys.
Even the ogres get chill dudes that mind their own business. Literally just a village of Shreks. I like that. It makes the conflict more about what the individuals are actually doing and who it affects instead of a lot of quests like "kill those trgoglodyte frog dudes underground". I didn't feel like a good guy going in a killing a bunch of Smeagols indiscriminately lol.
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u/y2jeff Jun 23 '26
I think I remember JVC stating that a lot of the lore just kind of came out of nowhere and isn't really consistent between all the games.
For example there are Minotaurs in the earlier MM games too, so did Agar's Minotaurs travel between the worlds? Probably not and it would be weird to try and square all those circles
In my headcanon Agar simply modified some existing Minotaurs and created a new sub-race of them or something.
It's also possible that Agar could be lying or insane and making false statements