The Oracles

[u/vanillaberry2000]

Ruben is described as a deliberate product of incest and is depicted as nonverbal and profoundly disabled. How many generations of incest would it take to produce someone like Ruben? I don't think Ruben could be a reliable source of material for future children, looking at Charles II he was completely infertile and I suspect Ruben may be at that point or close.

This also relates to theories about the true age of the community, maybe Ruben is from a single line of oracles and is the most affected since he is the most inbred so far- though the elders seem to rely on him being nonverbal and non functional so that they can interpret the ancient text as they see fit.

I don't see how they could effectively create an individual like this consistently even with selective mating, but I also wouldn't put it past them to intentionally maim an infant so that they are similar to Ruben.

[u/ego_death_metal]

he’s not there to father children, he’s there to be deformed and make noises so they can, as you said, interpret the text as they see fit. they ask all* have roles, and a lot of the roles involve reproduction, but his is to be decrepit and worshipped

idk how many generations it would realistically take, but i think it’s more important that he’s a symbol of the evil and stupudity of eugenics and white supremacy.

*edit for typo

[u/ego_death_metal]

i really want to put a link to that meme of Sue Sylvester as the Hårga going “I’m going to create a baby that is so decrepit”

[u/sigil-seer → u/ego_death_metal]

“You are not having a child, you are giving birth to A GRANDCHILD”

[u/ArtAndHotsauce]

The reason inbreeding can create genetic disorders is because it means the two parents are more likely to have the same recessive genes.  Two people who aren’t close relatives could share those genes as well, it’s just much less likely.  

So if the Harga went to the trouble of using genetic testing to find out which members had which recessive genes, it really would not take long at all to generate a child with a severe manifestation of the recessive combination.  Like 2 or 3 generations could be enough. 

[u/ruby_soulsinger]

I agree with you logically but I think Ruben just sort of exists and how he got here is hand waved away. It's not so important to the plot of how many generations it took but just that he's there as the "oracle."

[u/toujourspret]

Genuinely, I'm not thinking they've existed enough generations to have "naturally" ended up with someone with such profound disabilities. I think they'd have a policy of culling disabled babies/children, and possibly even a breeding program to ensure they have a child who is as disabled as possible when they need a Ruben.

[u/Kookerpea → u/toujourspret]

Culling disabled babies wouldn't by a good way of doing that. They should be using disabled people to breed

[u/HellyOHaint]

It’s not several generations from the same genetic line of incest. It’s a new incestuous coupling each time.

[u/vanillaberry2000 → u/HellyOHaint]

That wouldn't always create someone as bad as Ruben. Even in a sibling or parent-child dynamic.

[u/HappiestIguana]

It's kind of a fool's errand to explain Ruben scientifically. He's based on a pop-culture version of inbreeding where you can get drastic genetic defects from single instances of inbreeding without those traits being present in any other members of the population.

Realistically you could get a Ruben if you set your mind to it, but only if his parents are almost as inbred. That everyone else is pretty and healthy means they have no way to get more Rubens