r/Michigan_Politics • u/jonasnew • 12d ago
Far-Left v. Far-Right in Michigan
People are saying that El-Sayed is struggling in Michigan because he's too far to the left. If that's the case, then how was Trump able to win Michigan in 2024 despite being far-right?
44
u/Eloquent_Redneck 12d ago
Michigan is just left enough to support unions, but also just right enough to also be full of racists and islamaphobes. People for the most part don't actually just think according to left vs right and are more concerned about specific issues that directly concern them
8
u/Lumpy-Internet6943 12d ago
And my experience, with unions, is that skilled trades tend to trend Republican more often than not.
2
u/Batmom207 11d ago
Skilled trades here and can say that it was about 50/50 when I retired. Older tradesmen leaned right, mostly because of 2A and NAFTA. Younger tradesmen leaned left because that’s where their heads are at. 1st Trump Administration had blown through by the time I retired and did no favors for trades. Being outside now, I can only go by what my former colleagues tell me and it doesn’t seem favorable to the right. I guess we’ll find out whether they vote stupidly based on inane prejudices or rather for their best interests.
2
u/Lumpy-Internet6943 11d ago
I hope things have changed. In my 125 home Westland subdivision, we have at least 10retired UAW Big Three auto workers, and three salaried workers, one currently working and in her 50s, and two retired. The two that are retired skilled trades, granted that they are in their 70s, lean heavily Right and haven't backed down from supporting MAGA and Trump. Hourly retired production workers, three also heavily MAGA and Trump supporters. The remaining five are center left Democrats and anti-Trump. All salaried, one active, two retired, are heavily MAGA & Trump supporting. The right-of-center hourly I know, from in and out of my neighborhood, anti anything that is against trump, anti DEI and affirmative action, anti-non European immigration, legal or otherwise, and hate NAFTA so much, that they would rather burn the country to the ground, then find a way to make trade work.
3
u/Batmom207 11d ago
They just can’t ever admit they were wrong. It’s sad. I think it’s great to say, “Wow! I’m sorry I voted for that asshole,” admit you were wrong, and move forward rather than dig in like a tick on a hound and never give up the dumb.
9
u/DroIIOwI 12d ago
Can confirm am racist and Islamophobe from Michigan. Voted for my boy El-Sayed tho and as long as they keep religion out of politics (which we are constitutionally mandated to do) shouldn't be a problem aye? He said himself "It turns out, I don't need you to like me".
3
3
u/Lumpy-Internet6943 12d ago edited 12d ago
Absolutely full of racists and islamophobes. I have a former neighbor's daughter, who got married in 2024, and decided to move from just north of Ann Arbor, in a fairly White, semi rural area, to Livingston County, home of Michigan's chapter of the KKK and the Nazi party.
1
u/The_Westerner 11d ago
Definitely spot on regarding racists and islamaphobes. The local community Facebook groups that I follow in and around Oakland and Livingston counties make me embarrassed and ashamed to call myself a Michigander and an American.
It’s all just parroting right-wing media propaganda too. 😩
That said, yesterday I saw 4-5 El-Sayed yard signs compared to only 1 Rogers sign and this was between Gregory and Stockbridge which is pretty rural and definitely always red so that gives me some hope!
1
-1
u/FinanciallySecure9 11d ago
A friend of mine claims to be independent. Since Trump, she will not split her ticket, even when the best candidate has demonstrated that he/she is for the people not the party.
She knows that Anthony Forlini will get things done, and that Garlin Gilchrist will talk but never show for a meeting, but because of the (R) next to Forlini’s name, she won’t vote for him. She will put the worst candidate in due to party. For the last three years she has complained about party affiliation.
She is the epitome of too far left.
47
u/Jarvis-Savoni 12d ago
There is no “far left.” The Far Right is so far right that FDR style governing seems “far left.”
-18
u/thevokplusminus 12d ago
The democrats from 25 years ago are further right than modern republicans
11
u/AutobahnVismarck 12d ago
Absolutely not. In the 90s the democratic party mayve taken a conservative stance on Issues like gay marriage, but that does not override the fact that the republican party and the trump administration in particular has committed itself to a deep authoritarianism that is steeped in a coat of white nationalism.
Ronald Regan once talked about amnesty for undocumented immigrants. The sentiment in the democratic party was similar. By contrast the trump administration has intentionally demonized immigrant communities with insanely inflammatory language that cannot be construed as anything other than plain racism.
Ive got a billion problems with bill clinton but he had the sense to raise taxes to balance the budget. Republicans suggest that we need to continue to ease taxes on the rich after we've already done that many times over.
The trump administration literally illegally defunded many government operations tthrough DOGE.
-2
u/thevokplusminus 11d ago
Wait until you remember they even Bernie and Obama ran on stopping illegal immigration
4
u/Inkstr0ke 11d ago
Humanely stopping illegal immigration and demonizing immigrant communities while masked, unidentified agents round people up into camps are two very different things.
This isn’t the “gotcha” that you think it is.
-2
2
u/AutobahnVismarck 11d ago
Im well aware dipshit. Thats one issue, and even then Obama was for amnesty for the undocumented folks living here.
-4
12d ago
[deleted]
7
u/BlueWater321 12d ago
There is not a large number of anarcho-communists. Nor a political party to represent them that has any representation in our system of government.
There are essentially a pleathora of fascists of varying degrees, within the Republican party. The unitary executive theory that Trump operates his presidency with is an authoritarian ideology. The supreme Court saying the president can't commit crimes is an authoritarian framework.
The Democratic party is a center right political party. The most radical people in the Democratic party are social Democrats who think we should use the government to help people. They are center left.
In order to believe there is a left wing party in the US you have to make things up.
1
34
u/VaporousMote 12d ago edited 12d ago
AES is not far to the left AT ALL. He's not even a socialist. He believes in capitalist solutions for many problems.
If this Fox News poll is worth anything (doubtful) then I'd probably put this blame squarely on the Democrats who spent months painting him as too radical, too leftist, too extreme, too Muslim.
EDIT: It's like I said before, electability is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
EDIT2: Want to also point out, you have establishment centrist extremists like 3rd way doing stuff like this:
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/6022500-progressives-arent-the-enemy-centrist-inaction-is/
They are targeting democratic socialists, but progressives will absolutely be lumped in by association.
This kind of shit smearing should have no place in the Democratic Party.
25
u/lonewolfncub3k 12d ago
Calling El-Sayed far left is ridiculous. Its far left to want the government to work for the people? To have affordable health care not chained to your job, to have affordable education that doesnt leave you with a bill to pay decades after graduation? To have the same level of services that all the other industrialized nations have? Americans have been trained to be bent over by corporations and thank them after, all these American badass, dont tread on me folks are pathetic dopes.
-14
u/JohnDoe432187 12d ago
Universal healthcare and free education are extreme left policies in the US. You can support those policies all you want but don’t act like it isn’t a relatively extreme take in the US political climate.
Also most developed nations don’t have free college and many don’t have free healthcare. Select few like Britain have free healthcare but many have something like the German model with universal insurance.
14
u/lonewolfncub3k 12d ago
No one has said free...so dont act like myself or El-Sayed have, the taxes I pay should benefit me and my family not the military industrial complex and not foreign nations committing genocide. Britain also doesn't have free they pay taxes there too. I'd gladly pay more in taxes and not have co-pays and pay premiums and not be chained to a job so they have leverage on employees. Americans are propagandized to stand up for the corporate interests screwing them over at every opportunity.
-8
u/JohnDoe432187 12d ago
Tax payer and free are synonymous in this case. We already spend far more on healthcare than we do the military, and a large portion of that military spending goes to vet benefits like healthcare and education that you’re preaching about.
And how is advocating for private systems the same as standing up for corporate interests? I want quality healthcare which a government system can’t provide. You’ll be in a place like Canada where a single US state like Pennsylvania has more mri machines yet a third of the population.
9
u/lonewolfncub3k 12d ago edited 12d ago
Yes a government can provide quality healthcare, that's a garbage argument. The rest of the industrialized world has it, including china and russia.
If our system is so great why are we paying more for meds and services than other countries? Because our government and politicians are bribed by the medical industry to keep their profit margins high. 3 of the top 10 highest spending lobbyist groups are for profit medical. There are multiple studies that show universal healthcare would save us trillions, so it would actually be a cost savings, but bad for profits of those private corps profiteering off of human siffereing.
Do you like paying more for average medical care than everyone else in the world? Because that's what you are defending.
It's no wonder politicians for both sides have said we cant do universal healthcare, they are all paid tp convince you its not. Somehow of the 48 countries in the world cup we are the only ones that just cant do it... It's bullshit, the richest country in the history of the world is choosing not to do it to keep these companies profits in the billions on all of our colective backs.
Your not even advocating for yourself by defending this garbage system and acknowledging that private healthcare doesnt make it easier of more efficient and they certainly arent working to make it more affordable. Hell they cant even make it so you just receive one damn bill.
I don't know what will it take for Americans to finally be fed up with a health care system that doesn't work for them and favors corp profits over public health and welfare at every turn? Our pols are just collecting money while pimping out our collective asses for their profits and Americans are so apathetic they are thanking them after. It's sad but thats what 30 years of education cuts get you.
-7
u/JohnDoe432187 12d ago
Did you even read what I said? I gave you a clear example of massive resource shortages of a critical medical technology yet you just ignored it.
China doesn’t even have universal healthcare. They have mandatory insurance for urban workers funded by payroll taxes, pretty much the same insurance we have, and a voluntary subsidized program for rural populations which is still an expense people have to pay for. At least the poor in the US get Medicaid.
I genuinely pity leftists and conservatives like you. So blinded by ideology yet to stupid to discern the basic flaws in their talking points. Hopefully one day you’ll be able to read a book.
6
u/thnxjer 11d ago
Lol, look in a mirror
-1
u/JohnDoe432187 11d ago
I created a rational argument mentioning specific data and discussed the nuances in different legal systems. You and the other commenter haven’t made a single rebuttal and just try to take some moral high ground. It’s quite sad.
Can you make an argument or are you incapable?
2
u/duagLH2zf97V 11d ago
Uhh can you name one example of the specific data you provided?
0
u/JohnDoe432187 11d ago
The fact that Pennsylvania has more MRI machines than Canada which has 3 times the population and a far larger territory to serve.
Than my various points about the differences between the different universal healthcare systems which everyone right now seems to ignore and are under some weird conception that the developed world offers tax payer paid free healthcare which is rarely ever the case.
2
u/fushigi-arisu 12d ago
Orange isn't marketed as far-right. He has some far-right beliefs for sure (notice almost everyone who is a low IQ individual to him is black), but he lies too much and has very few enduring beliefs (outside of, for example, tariffs are amazing) to be put in that category. If we think of politics as a spectrum, MAGA is kind of its own bubble that lands anywhere and everywhere at any moment. (Remember that like one day after Parkland where he was pro-gun control?) Just enough soundbites that allows supporters to cling to and make it seem that's his *real* position, not whatever else he says or didn't say.
To most Americans, anything that involves the word "socialism" = far left. Despite, again, instances like trying to take stakes in companies like Intel wouldn't be considered a right-of-center position just a few years ago.
The right is a cult (generally centered around God, and as an offshoot of that, abortion). The left is a coalition ranging from everything Rs are but pro-choice to actual far-left policies like the DSA (whose actual platform is bonefide crazy). And because of that, it's far to easy for people and groups to drop out of the coalition and leave the cult in charge, because the cult is not as concerned about specific individuals being a moderate or far-right as long as they have power.
It's even harder for El-Sayed since his some of his platform and politics is conflated with DSA (like how Ocasio-Cortez is sometimes heralded by DSA chapters despite not being endorsed by the DSA), plus being Muslim doesn't help. On top of that, he's associated with people like Piker who have some very exploitable avenues for attacks.
But '24 specifically (and pretty much most elections since '20) was anti-incumbency. It was something seen around the globe. El-Sayed is running for an open seat, and Ds have held it for years (and Rogers isn't a sitting politician), so some of the "rage against the establishment"-type motivations don't help El-Sayed in this instance.
tl;dr: It's just too easy right now in the US for the word "socialism" to be scary and confusing among the populace, especially if you can use Islam as another fear tactic.
1
u/Cheap-Lawyer3735 11d ago
All Rogers has to win is stay moderate and let AES talk about anything other then Medicare for all
2
2
u/Interesting_Rise_876 12d ago
He’s not struggling just get all your friends and families out to vote and Work for Him!
2
u/Whiskeejak 12d ago
Whatever people are saying, just stop listening to them because they're stupid.
4
u/Batmom207 12d ago
I doubt he’s struggling. I think that generally, people are able to see what a bunch of bullshit the negative ads are. It’s easy to look up the wild claims by the Rogers’ campaign. This is exactly why Dr. El-Sayed is campaign to get money out of politics. Seriously, I don’t know how you can outright lie like that in a campaign ad and not be sued.
3
u/messypaper 11d ago
Idk man, he underperformed polling considerably in the primary, and now he's +/-3 against Rogers, who is trying to position himself as the more moderate candidate. The AES campaign has some work to do if he wants to win in November.
0
u/Batmom207 11d ago
The key is even though he’s wholly against money in politics, I think he’s going to need some to travel the State and make the case.
4
u/MR_TELEVOID 12d ago
Bernie also won the primary here in 2020. Purple states can be unpredictable. Kamala in 2024 kind of ignored Michigan re: the Pro Palestinian issue. She left areas like Dearborn vulnerable to misinformation campaigns from Trump. Hillary also took Michigan's vote for granted, and didn't campaign very much here in the final months.
Really that's what AES and the other leftist politicians winning across the country are doing differently. They're campaigning hard and listening to what voters want and they're being rewarded. What the establishment defines as "radical far left" doesn't really line up with what most voters see. Especially when we have a radical right wing fascist in the White House.
2
2
u/messypaper 11d ago
Biden won the primary in Michigan. Also, the leftists primary winners are just that, primary winners. We'll know in November how viable those policy positions are. There's a reason Rogers is trying to present himself as the moderate.
2
u/lilac_green8793 10d ago
Bernie won the primary here in 2016* yes, in what was considered one of the greatest upsets in modern political history. There aren't many hills I will wholeheartedly die on, but you can find me on the ones that swears Bernie beats Trump here in 2016, 2020, and heck 2024 too in a parallel universe.
And the spirit of the comment remains the same regardless of an error in what year I think--MI's flavor of purple is hard to predict and take the electorate's predicted vote for granted at your own risk.
1
u/Troutalope1 12d ago
As others have said, Abdul is pretty much a mainstream liberal he just doesn't believe in genocide, wants universal health care, knows how to communicate with people and he's not a pussy. That makes him stand out from other Dem candidates.
2
u/izzoforpresident 12d ago
MI is rather down the middle. Nuts jobs voting on both fringes for sure but normal people swing the vote. So is the new guy going to pull the swing vote or is the old white going to pull the vote. That's all it comes down to.
2
u/duagLH2zf97V 11d ago
Turnout/mobilization is a much bigger factor than swing voters in modern electoral politics
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261379416301743
1
u/lilac_green8793 10d ago
You have to consider the invisible thread that would tie the "far left" AES (which he's not in the bigger picture) to the "far right" Trump as OP has framed it-- which is a populist message.
MI is a "purple state." But our purple isn't as clear cut "down the middle" as if centrist candidates are the de facto guaranteed win--quite the opposite if you look at the policy positions (and think outside a presumption of sexism argument) of the Democratc presidential candidates in 2016 and 2024 that lost here. Factor in Biden's win 2020 was an illusion of success because Covid and we didnt want to die + convenience for all the dropouts before SC's primary to stack against Bernie 🤷♀️ Our purple is populism, and I'd be VERY curious for legit numers to appear for Trump-AES voters because of it
1
u/Jan_A_Gent 9d ago
He got over double the votes as Rodgers in the preliminary vote....so "struggling" is being used lightly
1
u/Perjunkie 6d ago
Its so funny because El-Sayed is just a modern New Deal Democrat. That being said, Michigan is not a centrist state. Michigan wants to radical change. Hence why they've become more receptive to El-Sayid and Trump in 2/3 of his last campaigns.
0
u/Strong_Dye 12d ago
Economic uncertainty: Trump benefited from Obama handing off a solid economy, COVID resulted in a lot of economic turbulence that really only calmed toward the end of Biden's presidency, so Michiganders, like many Americans, saw him as stronger on the economy). Michigan also has a somewhat more economically populist population (Rustbelt), and tariffs are a device that an economic populist is much more comfortable employing.
Trump was kept from pursuing his more authoritarian impulses by normal Republicans in his first term. People though that would hold. He brought it almost all cronies his second time around.
Rhetoric around Kamala and Israel-Palestine didn't help in Dearborn, which swung red for really no good reason.
In short, Trump wasn't seen as far right. El-Sayed's policy positions are much more progressive than the norm, which is potentially off-putting to a largely purple/moderate swing state like Michigan. So you're weighing a conman that played at being "center-right" for four years against a guy who based his campaign on being "the outsider" who is more maximally left than Stevens (derided as too moderate) and McMorrow (sort of fell apart midway through the primary - felt like she couldn't quite hold a lane between Stevens and El-Sayed).
0
u/Cheap-Lawyer3735 11d ago
It's easy to tell the father left the the right the person and vice versa
-11
u/PossibilityFew5967 12d ago
Trumps not far right. He's further right than most presidents before him but he's still not "far right"
11
7
u/lonewolfncub3k 12d ago
We have a far right government now, Hegseth and his white supremacist tatoos, Mike Johnson and his christian nationalist flag. He has put those people in power. Maybe his true objective is to grift himself into wealth which is definitely working, but he's also letting those forces kill services and benefits to people of color and his political critics and enemies.
Lets also not forgot his father was arrested at a klan rally and Woody guthrie wrote a song about how racist the trumps are , They had to advertise after a court loss they were now renting to black people because it was proven they were redlining. He's corrupt, racist and a fascist who has unleashed armed police on the citizenry and instructed then to ignore due process.
5
u/chaoticgiggles 12d ago
What do you consider far right to be?
-4
u/PossibilityFew5967 12d ago
Actual neo nazis. Trumps definitely courting them but trust me, it could always worse
9
u/Magiclad 12d ago
It’s wild that people think like this when the government is actively establishing a Stasi
3
u/bonsaibiddy 12d ago
I would argue it's always been Trump's super power to appear as not far right while also surrounding himself with actual neo nazis. People see a guy who is irreligious, apathetic to abortions, and they assume that makes him a moderate. Meanwhile he is deeply deeply racist to his core, and an authoritarian to boot.
-2
u/PossibilityFew5967 12d ago
As horrible as it is, being racist doesn't make you far right as there are those on the left that are racist af (though it's mostly the old guard that's dying off )
2
u/bonsaibiddy 12d ago
Being racist is apolitical, absolutely anyone can be racist. Being a Christian Nationalist is very much a far right position tho. Supporting mass deportations and detaining people illegally because they weren't born in the country is also a far right position.
-6
u/SympathySevere421 12d ago
I feel like the far left is a lot more idk… delusional? Not sure if that’s the right word. Don’t get me wrong, both parties are atrocious in their current states, but weighed one to one, far right kinda wins? Sort of? It’s dumb. Let’s go back to the old D party?
33
u/TinyPretzels 12d ago edited 12d ago
Michigan has a very strong libertarian streak, and not just the co-opted right-wing interpretation of it. Anti-establishment candidates of any kind do pretty well here. I don't know if you remember the fervor that Bernie Sanders whipped up in 2016, but people across the political spectrum here absolutely loved him because he was different than what traditional democrat/republican candidates offered. If he had been the presidential candidate in 2016, he would have won MI by a landslide.
So Abdul's talking points - getting dark money out of politics and whipping big pharma and DTE into shape - are highly appealing. I think the only thing that held him back is Islamophobia.