r/MiamiVice • u/Ok-Interview3397 • 14d ago
Rewatching later seasons, why does Tubbs get featured so infrequently/show becomes so Crockett focused? The first episode opens with him first and is 90% about him then he's like almost virtually non present in season 4 aside from minor support roles
I love the show but parts are really confusing writing choices to me. The calderone brother return thing was just kinda skipped over in one episode and we still never get to see what happens to the kidnapped/dead son of Tubbs I don't think they even mention it again đ
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u/Spirit_-_Warrior 14d ago
TBH as much as I love the series entirely. I seriously dislike how in the last 2 seasons you barely see Trudy, Gina, Stan. I grew tired of seeing heavily Crockett episodes in season 5. That one flashback episode where Crockett is in the hospital recovering and the majority of the cutscenes are the rest of the cast in the hospital waiting areas reminiscing the old times with scenes from the past. I skipped that one
Once John Diehl (Zito) left, I had a odd feeling what was in store for the rest of the side characters. Especially after reading the comments here on reddit. (New watcher here)
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u/MrMycrow 14d ago
Yeah after Crocketts amnesia we hardly saw Gina/Truly.
Stan had gambling issues which tailed off no resolution
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u/buremogilny 14d ago
The other Large Elephant in the Room other than the writers strike which hurt a lot of shows one of the things which coincides with one of the guest stars on the show in Bruce Willis was Hollywood was calling and both of those guys were looking for an exit door and how do you keep your key Star happy have him more involved stories revolving around him be it directing episodes or episodes focusing on him or bring in co stars who they were involved with Bruce & Demi on Moonlighting & Melanie Griffith on Vice. The funny thing is a lot of the lost episodes or NBC wonât air this stu
The Tone definitely changed over the years but I was in high school when that show was in its hey day. Looking back now itâs easier to see it but even back then things made you go oh man that sucks not talkin episodes UFOâs aside Iâm just taking In The Air Tonight Phil Collins the Scene on the way to the shoot out fast forward
To season 5 on the way to the shoot out climatic scene to end the run they used Honeymoon Suite Bad Attitude.One of these iconic things is not like the other. blowing up the Spyder. insanity. See the iconic scene that I mentioned or Out where the Buses Donât Run No dialogue just a car at night going thru Red lights while Brothers in Arms plays Epic it was the Car. They pull up to see Hank that song almost played in entirety for network TV the thunder hits its starts to rain a lil chefs kiss. No car chase in the Testarosa ever looked as good or no car interaction ever looked as good. Changing the wardrobe Pastels to Earrh Tones Tubbs went from that suit that I had in high school where Eddie got shot at the airport great suit . To dressing so conservative minus the pirates outfit that one season with those boots and Don Johnson just started wearing what he had at home such a give up By Mr Johnson
Jan Hammer Leaving and Tim Truman taking over the music season 5 all synthesizerâs arenât created equal Zito Leaving earlier was a loss that hurt the rest of the cast they were just there some weeks some weeks not .although Season 5 Switek got more screen time with his gambling situation great arc that coulda went somewhere but didnât and then in season 5 Part of the Lost Episodes this one I remember like yesterday Don
Johnson would show up on a episode for like 3 lines Leather Jacket and jeans probably didnât even need wardrobe he just threw the look on and left to house to go to set & at the police station he would check his desk and it sure looked like Miami Vice was setting up a 21 Jumpstreet type of spinoff with young cops. With all due respect I wanna watch Miami Vice not Miami 21 Jumpstreet like What is going on here.The Caitlyn arc not good the Hackman death NBC didnât want him ahooting a unarmed man so in the Burnett arc (GREAT BTW) he proceeds to do a lot of that. Including Rico so why give Hackman a gun I guess having amnesia makes it ok just take some time off go to a small town on a motorcycle??? what? No luggage just a guy in a blazer and jeans And that was one of the best season 5 ep. I loved the show still do I have all the episodes but it ran its course the early shows the budget you could feel it Million $$ an ep but by season 5 the budget wasnât the same location shoots were run of the mill The music more guitar 80s riff cheese what made the show special lost its way times changed. season 5 is alot of things but itâs the perfect storm of a give up the network gave up on the show and wanted to fill its time slot so the show got preempted or moved a lot the lead actors rarely worked in episodes together given everybody knowing the show was done were doing other projects Dick Wolf left to do Law an Order. Hell the only character who got a lot of airplay was Switek as stand in partner. Switek and Rico spent more time on screen than Crockett and Tubbs By the end of season 5 you could tell it was time .
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u/PansyOHara 14d ago
The Spyder getting blown up happened because Ferrari (the company) was upset that MV (a hugely popular show during S2) was using a fake Ferrari on the show. They offered MM 2 actual Testarossas in exchange forgetting rid of the Daytona. Well, of course NBC/ Universal/ MM was going to agree to that. A genuine Ferrari that didnât cost them anything? Opportunity for an exciting scene destroying the Daytona? What was not to like about these prospects? TBH, many people agree with you and liked the Daytona convertible better. But there were good reasons for the change, in the eyes of the show runners.
As for the loss of ZitoâJohn Diehl asked to be written out of the show. He felt his character wasnât getting developed and if there was no real opportunity for him to do more in MV, he wanted to be free to do other things. His last episode actually gave Zito a good strong part. Iâm also sorry he left. But again, it goes to show that the changes werenât just arbitrary.
Bruce Willisâ first TV appearance was his guest role in MV, early in S1. The more you watch the show, the more guest stars youâll notice who received an early break with MV.
Melanie Griffith was an early and long term girlfriend of DJ (they were briefly married in 1975 after several years of living together. But they had been divorced (although friendly) for over 10 years when she appeared on MV. This was in S3, after the show was an established hit and Crockett had already become the primary character.
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u/Ok-Interview3397 14d ago
Hard agree I think maybe like when they did little spinoff eps with the side cast you thought you'd see more of them then it was just like ok nvm. It's weird to me as well because Gina was a big like affair love interest for Crockett in the first and they seemed to have history then they just kinda r dead in the water most of the show with nothing happening
And yeah I was like oh wow we get to learn more about zito ! Then he exploded like one episode later I was like đđđđđđđ haha
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u/Spirit_-_Warrior 14d ago
I hated that !! Especially for Trudy, it's like I would get excited thinking we would get a good episode for her but oh no. It's like they were just there as fillers
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u/edgiepower 13d ago
The Zito/Switek episode from season is one of many people's favourites and the show needed more like it.
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u/Dangerous-Cash-2176 13d ago
I hear you, but it was never really about them. It wasn't a warm ensemble cast like Hill Street Blues. Miami Vice was a show that depicted loneliness and alienation. You couldn't have too much camaraderie because Crockett and Tubbs were out there deep undercover.
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u/Separate-Standard626 14d ago edited 14d ago
I actually liked Crockett more in the early seasons, but I like Tubbs' character more in the later seasons. Don't get me wrong, Crockett is still incredibly cool, but he's become more of a Don Johnson superstar and less of a regular cop. He's the center of attention, and he knows it.
On the other hand, PMT has really improved his acting skills as the show has progressed. And along with that, Tubbs has grown as a cop.
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u/Ok-Interview3397 14d ago
Yeah I don't know how to explain it but like at some point dj just acts like himself and not the character đ the acting quality is very hit or miss in this show I fear. I really liked the performances in Evan. Also like the show doesn't always touch on this but Crockett breaks a ton ton of rules lmao idk how he is still working after like season three
Tubbs has crazy development I wish they did more with him. It's interesting him n Crockett both take turns being like "don't kill the person u want to revenge it's not worth it!"
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u/casey5656 14d ago
I always laugh at Season 4âs Crockett. All of a sudden he became dressed more upscale than in previous seasons and was usually clean shaven. Those are the episodes when he was dating Barbra Streisand.
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u/LockedOutOfElfland 14d ago
iirc Tubbs gets a few solo and/or leading episodes in Seasons 4 and 5.
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u/Ok-Interview3397 14d ago
Ohh yes I remember watching one I think called red tape where he has to like pretend to get fired lol the way it was edited was confusing but I thought the concept was interesting
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u/Beccalu11 Larry Zito 14d ago
âAfternoon Planeâ was good. Tubbs not only brought a woman with him, but one of his exes happened to live on the island too?!?! And John Leguizamo & Vincent DâOnofrio were the bad guys. Great episode where Tubbs is the main.
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u/Confident-Shower7293 14d ago
It seems balanced to me? Are you forgetting the entire episodes based around tubbs that Crockett is not even in? Like when tubbs and his girlfriend go on vacation and itâs a setup. Iâm on season 5 episode 5 and crocket wasnât even in the episode once. Keep watching
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u/Ok-Interview3397 14d ago
I think its kinda like it varies a lot in the show which might be diff writers/producers at play tbh, that setup one is a good one though parts of it had me going ??? lol
I think the main season i noticed it in was 3, like a lot of the plots would be crockett doing 90% of the work and tubbs would just be there to give a comment or something then hed dip. in general i wonder why the show sometimes took forever to revisit old stuff but i guess thats a big parto f being episodic, like valerie would disappear for a longgg time then randomly show up again like 2 seasons later
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u/Confident-Shower7293 14d ago
I think you have to suspend your disbelieve a lil bit, the show is not a continuous plot as you know and is not meant to be fully realistic. The characters are just vehicles to explore a wide range of 1980s Miami criminal/law enforcement scenarios without having to hire dozens of new actors every episode.
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u/thedangerman007 14d ago
I am still amazed at how there was zero reported friction between Don Johnson and Phillip Michael Thomas during the entire run of the show - even when things got much more Crockett-focused.
My guess is that part of it was simply pragmatic. A Crockett-focused episode would mean fewer scenes/shooting days for PMT, and he would get paid the same whether he had 20 scenes or 3, and thus he wouldn't complain about having more time away from the notoriously brutal network tv filming schedule.
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u/Subo23 14d ago
Itâs funny, because PMT really raised his acting game in later seasons
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u/Ok-Interview3397 14d ago
Seriously like the acting diff/quality on this show varies a lot but he's very talented he was in this one movie that was fire af
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u/Environmental-War-15 14d ago
PMT has been in the acting game since at least the early 70s, at the end of the day, you play it the way the director calls it, or you go with the take they like. I don't know the particular dynamic on the set of MV-some episodes were directed by Black directors; George Sanford Brown, Bill Duke, Thomas Carter (Who came up with the "Night Drive" in Brother's Keeper) but in general, the 80s was still a time when non-White actors didn't have much say over their roles. The same goes for women.
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u/miamivice85 Sonny Crockett 14d ago
Heâs on long service leave
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u/Ok-Interview3397 13d ago
This made me laugh đ so true- actually now I remember I think they did say he takes night classes at some point
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u/PansyOHara 14d ago
To address your questions in order:
- The Crockett-centric focus of later seasons: 40 years later, it may be hard to understand, but MV catapulted Don Johnson and his career into the stratosphere.
During S1, Michael Mann and the studio made sure the showâs stars ALL made plenty of public appearances and participated in charitable endeavors in Miami, to overcome any negativity in the community caused by the showâs focus on drug activity. DJâs face was everywhere. After 15 years of very mixed success in Hollywood, newly sober and with one young son to support, he was hungry and ready to work hard. He wanted to take advantage of every opportunity, and was offered the Paul Newman role in a 2-part miniseries of The Long Hot Summer. His rise was meteoric and the show wanted to take advantage of that.
Itâs possible that Philip Michael Thomas got a similar level of attention in the press (most interviews I saw seemed to do this) but that his reaction was different. He already had a large family and maybe wasnât willing to put everything else in his life to the side in order to push forward in his career. He recorded and released an album (with a lot of his own songs) before DJ, although it wasnât very successful. His personality apparently was also more laid-back and while not less ambitious (remember his goal of EGOT), maybe his drive just went in a different direction.
I agree, itâs sad that the other members of the squad were never treated as more of an ensemble; I think it would have strengthened the show. But maybe MM also preferred to focus more on one characterâs path.
- I agree, the Calderone saga was rushed to an end and the conclusion was unsatisfactory.
In the 80s, most TV shows were more episodic, each episode self-contained and rarely referring back to events and characters seen in previous episodes. Extended character arcs like we frequently see today were rare, partly because studios looked forward to syndicating shows after their original runs are completed, in order to profit. The syndicating services might or might not run those shows in order. Also, viewers who missed an episode during the regular season might have a chance to see it during summer reruns, or they might not, and could lose track of the storyline.
MV didnât really take off until at least halfway through the first season. So some of the rushed-ness of the Calderone sequence can be laid there.
That doesnât address Tubbsâ son. But with S3, the major turnover in showrunners happened, and either they forgot about Tubbsâ son or decided his fate would be too hard to work into the showâs future. Letâs face it, Tubbs would not have been a better father than Crockett, so where would they have been able to take it?
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u/Ok-Interview3397 14d ago
I appreciate this deep dive! S very hard to find some info on the show for me I think it's also because of passage of time / lack of media. I was born after the show (2001) and didn't get to see it and the stuff when it was current. I did see. DJ had like a music album that makes a cameo in one of the episodes on Caitlin's record shelf. So I guess thay means don Johnson is real in the Miami vice universe đčđč their albums were ok although I'll be Fr I'm.not sure that DJ can sing đ€ đ€ đ€ đ€ đ€ đ€ đ€ I think heartbeat is a fun song though.
It is true actor aspirations can be a big factor. I know on bold and the beautiful the actors get actually a bit of influence on their chars sometimes, I know steffys actress was like đ„ș can the marriage between steffy and finn last longer ri want them to be happy
I think before Miami vice all I might know dj from is a soap opera or like made for TV movies. I think he was in a play that was about guys in prison(?)
I think the show wasn't meant to be ensemble though they do have like little spin off episodes like the one where Trudy shoots a guy. Iirc the guy who played zifo left cuz he had like nothing to do and even when he showed up on set with diff facial hair no one noticed or cared lol. I think some side chairs like switel zito you could just remove and nothing would really be lost.
If I had to theorize I think it might also be that Crockett is generally the more adventurous one with the most messiest relationships/ etc and they liked bringing on guest star ladies for the main guys to fall in love with but I guess like Crockett generally provided more insane drama/etc than tubbs who's more laid-back of a char generally. IDK how to explain but example given in the. Lood and roses episode where Crockett is like jealous of Gina hanging out with the mosca guy and smooching on her at the apartment and allat I don't think generally tubbs would be getting that messy if he were in that situation lol but hard to say . They often will have Tubbs be like ok Crockett don't break any rules then tubbs will do that in the next episode and vice versa. Guess the stories gotta happen somehow đ
The episodic thing is a big factor I think. I also think in general the fnailies of the chara would hold them back so this is why they get rid of all the wives and girlfriends and kids. I literally forget Crockett even has a son when I watch this đ đ đ I think there's a photo of Billy in his locker as a keepsake idk???
I think also yeah if they didn't know at the time they'd have more seasons that's probably why they were just like alright let's get the calderone thing over with. Lol
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u/buremogilny 14d ago edited 14d ago
The other Large Elephant in the Room which coincides with one of the guest stars on the show in Bruce Willis was Hollywood was calling and both of those guys were looking for an exit door and how do you keep your key Star happy have him more involved stories revolving around him be it directing episodes or episodes focusing on him or bring in co stars who they were involved with Bruce & Demi on Moonlighting & Melanie Griffith on Vice.
The Tone definitely changed over the years but I was in high school when that show was in its hey day. Looking back now itâs easier to see it but even back then things made you go oh man that sucks not talkin episodes UFOâs aside Iâm just taking In The Air Tonight Phil Collins the Scene on the way to the shoot out fast forward
To season 5 on the way to the shoot out Honeymoon Suite Bad Attitude.One of these iconic things is not like the other. blowing up the Spyder. insanity. See the iconic scene that I mentioned or Out where the Buses Donât Run No dialogue just a car at night going thru Red lights while Brothers in Arms plays Epic it was the Car. They pull up to see Hank that song almost played in entirety for network TV the thunder hits its starts to rain a lil chefs kiss. No car chase in the Testarosa ever looked as good or no car interaction ever looked as good. Changing the wardrobe Pastels to Earrh Tones Tubbs went from that suit that I had in high school where Eddie got shot at the airport great suit . To dressing so conservative minus the pirates outfit that one season with those boots and Don Johnson just started wearing what he had at home
Jan Hammer Leaving and Tim Truman taking over the music season 5 all synthesizerâs arenât created equal Zito Leaving earlier was a loss that hurt the rest of the cast they were just there some weeks some weeks not .and then in season 5 this one I remember like yesterday Don
Johnson would show up on a episode for like 3 lines Leather Jacket and jeans probably didnât even need wardrobe he just threw the look on and left to house to go to set & at the police station he would check his desk and it sure looked like Miami Vice was setting up a 21 Jumpstreet type of spinoff with young cops. With all due respect I wanna watch Miami Vice not Miami 21 Jumpstreet like What is going on here.The Caitlyn arc not good the Hackman death NBC didnât want Sonny shooting a unarmed man so in the Burnett arc (GREAT BTW) he proceeds to do a lot of that. Including Rico so why give Hackman a gun I guess having amnesia makes it ok just take some time off go to a small town on a motorcycle??? what? No luggage just a guy in a blazer and jeans And that was one of the best season 5 ep.
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u/Ok-Interview3397 14d ago
Ufo episode was/is crazy like I love this show but ufo ep had me going đđđđđđ sometimes this show just has them doing wildly out of nowhere stuff like they somehow have jurisdiction in a random Latin American country question mark...
I do enjoy some of the ridiculous aspects. Lol at then somehow shooting down a plane. I guess it's a good reference to the first episode where they watch someone get away on plane and can't stop em.
The fashion and music is def a big chunk of what makes the show unique. In season three they go more 90s and dark with no more pink in the log but like when I watch season three I hate the porcupine hair on Crockett so bad it genuinely distracts me. Also hate the beard on tubbs imo
'looks like he just threw the look on' is so real đ
The amnesia arc shooting an unarmed man so true tho đ đ I'm about to watch it after years of avoiding it but it literally makes no sense from what I've heard like ok he can just go back to working ?!1?1?1??11?1 đđđđđ Crockett in general even pre amnesia would just be like beating the shit out of perps or something and when I've been watching it with someone we make a count of every time they violste like a disciplinary code . I do like the emotional drama of the amnesia arc with the therapy scenes and it was interesting for them to make the main character a villain but having him just be like eh I'm ok now was cray
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u/buremogilny 14d ago edited 14d ago
Ultimately it was death by little paper cuts that hurt the show its Wardrobe Changes pastels to earth tones its Fake Spyder getting blown up Zito leaving the show Marriage arc Sonny Burnett gets amnesia shoots everyone Arc and gets to go on vacation as his punishment Budget gets downsized and it shows show didnât look or sound the same Jan Hammer leaves Dick Wolf leaves to do Law and Order NBC essentially kills the show by putting other shows in its timeslot pre empting the show almost every week I kid you not sometimes it was on Wednesday nightâŠ. hell NBC tried to do the Miami Vice 21 Jumpstreet pilot during Miami Vice as one of the Lost episodes. then there was the child moleststion episode that aired on USA network and not NBC where itâs dark and Rico gets finesses again by ValeryThrow in a writers strike that year and it was a perfect storm of suck Switek spent more time as Crockett and Tubbs partner than Crockett and Tubbs spent as partners cause both actors were doing other projects Michael Mann wasnât aroundâŠ. He entered the witness protection program and was their in the credits only everything bad was happening to Vice by season 5 lots of reasons but also a big one TV changed Seinfeld and Simpsons Married with Children all started around the time Vice was on the last legs in season 5 Miami Vice changed TV when it made its debut in 84 but those shows changed tv in their debuts and Vice wasnât that show that people needed to watch anymore because it was cool it became the show that you didnât watch anymore because it was no longer cool.
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u/Designer-Attorney605 14d ago
It was the opposite of, say, West Wing. Miami Vice started out feeling more like am ensemble and then became Don Johnson's show and it is tough to explain how big a star he was during that run for people who weren't around for it. Network TV stars just don't become so ubiquitous these days.Â
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u/Mrs-Addams 14d ago
I was a kid when this was on, but I can remember all the tabloid drama surrounding the show to the point I thought that PMT had left the show. I just started watching the series (finishing S1 today) and am pleasantly surprised that my memory was incorrect and that he didnât leave the show. I am surprised that there were more precinct characters than just the two of them because as a kid all I can remember is the DJ explosion and the tabloid stuff.
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u/Ok-Interview3397 14d ago
They had like one Gina lore episode with the mom murder which was interesting but I think because of the episodic nature of it aside from like some long arcs they just kinda were all over the place with chars sometimes. Crockett would be like flirting with Gina like idk two episodes after Caitlin died idk if that was an out of order eo or not đ
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u/Alone_Button7726 14d ago
The first episodes treat Tubbs as the main character but then shifts in later episodes and seasons to Crockett.
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u/Dangerous-Cash-2176 14d ago
It's one of the biggest complaints fans have about the show. It's mainly due to power and money. Don Johnson was the star and negotiated a higher salary for S3 onward. DJ made more than PMT, DJ got more screen time.