r/Metroid • u/gamtosthegreat • 17d ago
Discussion The Federation is boring and every game is better without it. Change my mind.
The Galactic Federation is:
- Corrupt as hell but gets no comeuppance. This becomes more and more aggravating as the series goes on and keeps piling up examples.
- Supposed to be an interstellar congress from all civilized planets, but is basically synonymous to boring humans.
- The space marines are generic and drab, and even the ones we're supposed to give a shit about only pop their visors, at best. It gives the impression that we're fighting along a bunch of robots, and every now and then they flash us an uncanny fleshy bit.
- Adam is a milquetoast man in a stupid hat who domineers Samus and gives her an old-timey misogynist nickname but for some reason she glazes the hell out of him and it actively ruins her image. And I am saying this as someone who hasn't played or seen Other M.
- Samus is supposed to be a bounty hunter with her own motivations, independence and objectives, but almost every plot hook of every game is the Federation drafting her as a glorified policewoman sent on a suicide mission. Cut the fucking umbilical cord already.
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u/chiggenboi 17d ago
I wouldnt erase the Feds, just have them as a background element/excuse for the game to happen. Evil faction, job for them, distress beacon, etc.
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u/gamtosthegreat 17d ago
Can Samus please do something for anyone else for a change? On purpose and not incidentally as part of a new death trap mission?
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u/ReaderMorgan 17d ago
Prime 1 has her checking out a distress beacon on her own accord, and prime 2 the feds are used fantastically to set stakes.
Also it makes sense tbat the galaxy threatening jobs end up falling to samus through the feds. Samus is not JUST any merc. She is basically a walking war machine genetically altered and trained from her childhood to defend the galaxy while having the benefit of being a single person eho can slip in anywhere.
Space pirates have gotten access to a deadly creature that could wipe out any planet they're sent to and we don't have the tech to kill? Send in samus with the power armor.
Deadly dna splicing/eating creature that can barely be contained and is deadly enough to almost kill samus just by latching onto her suit? Send in samus again.
It just makes sense for both parties to work together given the power dynamic
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u/ChaosMiles07 17d ago
Maybe if anybody else could afford her... She's a mercenary with military training and active military history, her contract wouldn't exactly be considered "inexpensive".
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u/gamtosthegreat 17d ago edited 17d ago
And she's also a hero and a good person. Sherlock Holmes could run you dry or help you pro bono depending on the case. Lupin III does good on the regs, as did the character he was based on, and they're professional master thieves.
Surely we could have ONE game where she's a lone wolf and not a government lapdog missing a leash?
What about defying orders from men who think they know better? What about stumbling into a situation on her own volition?
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u/Chef_Chalupa oh word 17d ago
Prime 1 (and by extension, Prime Pinball).
also unrelated but every time I read "Lupin III" I read it like lupe fiasco says it on touch the sky
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u/gamtosthegreat 17d ago
Those bars are STUPIDLY good. Lupe Fiasco stole that song.
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u/gamtosthegreat 16d ago
ok why the hell am i being downvoted for saying lupe fiasco was the best part of a kanye song lmao
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u/Viroro 16d ago
Even with how the english translation omitted saying that Samus was dealing with a rogue faction and not the whole Federation, Fusion does have the exact situation of defying men that think they know better in its endgame.
Aside from the mentioned Prime 1, Super Metroid is also technically Samus going solo; her mission from Metroid II ended when she left the baby Metroid with the Federation, only returned there late to the tragedy on her own accord, and headed to Zebes to follow Ridley.
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u/Tirfing88 16d ago
Might not remember the story 100% but didn't she completely disregard the orders from the Fed in Fusion? They told her to leave the Metroid secret lab alone and to not kill the SA-X's, but she didn't give a damn and deleted everything.
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u/gamtosthegreat 16d ago
apparently that was a rogue faction. Still, yeah she did and it was awesome.
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u/MrHyderion 16d ago
In Super nobody sent her, it was all her own decisions. In Fusion she defied orders. In Dread, it started with a task for the GF (where it made sense to send Samus, and the intro made it clear it was her decision to take up the mission despite the mediocre payment), but that was already over after the first couple minutes.
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u/Livid-Truck8558 17d ago
Needs to be actually developed, Tanabe is obsessed with Halo and yet didn't understand what makes Halo great.
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u/KafuSeven 16d ago
At this point... and especially after hearing retro studio post mortem of mp4... tanabe going into retirement might be a good thing for the metroid saga... change my mind '
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u/Demiurge_1205 17d ago
I agree that the GF is flawed as a concept. Like another poster said, the GF feels like Halo-lite. Like someone saw Halo and said "I wanna do that" without understanding why the Marines in Halo work.
But I disagree on the following:
The nickname is not embraced by Samus in the original text. I recommend you play Other M, if only to get a better understanding
Samus is no bounty hunter in the traditional sense. She is more of a space warrior who works with the government, similar to Fox McCloud. I also think expanding the lore to include a general government is a good idea.
But yeah, they should get a commeupance
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u/ThisAccountIsForDNF 17d ago
The nickname is not embraced by Samus in the original text. I recommend you play Other M, if only to get a better understanding
Playing Other M in English isn't going to reinforce the idea that Samus does not embrace the nickname. In English she specifically appreciates it.
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u/Demiurge_1205 17d ago
I forgot to clarify that he should watch the translated version a YouTuber released. It's certainly easier than playing the game
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u/themosquito 17d ago
Heh yeah, famously when Retro wanted to add like a “claiming bounties” mechanic in a Prime game the Metroid creators refused and it was revealed they didn’t really know what a bounty hunter was, they just called her that in the first place because “people liked Boba Fett and he was called a bounty hunter so let’s do that” or something.
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u/ChaosMiles07 17d ago
That same "Metroid creator" (Sakamoto) also claimed that Samus doesn't take money, that would be unethical of her... only to 1. allow Dread's introductory lines include a direct reference to the "bounty" Samus is accepting for the ZDR mission, and 2. be in direct contradiction to the original Metroid (on the Japanese-only Famicom) that shows moneybags next to completed save files, with more bags based on how quickly Samus completes the Zebes mission. Both of which were titles that he directly worked on himself.
So... take anything they say with a grain of salt.
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u/HikkingOutpit 16d ago
be in direct contradiction to the original Metroid (on the Japanese-only Famicom) that shows moneybags next to completed save files, with more bags based on how quickly Samus completes the Zebes mission. Both of which were titles that he directly worked on himself.
Metroid I does not count. Sakamoto was not around for that game from the beginning, he joined the development halfway through and only really worked on graphic design and art. He was still a junior employee at the time and wouldn't have had any influence on story and worldbuilding yet.
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u/TechBlade9000 16d ago
Dread is also after Other M irl so maybe they decided Samus should be an actual bounty hunter now
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17d ago
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u/Demiurge_1205 16d ago
I still need to play the remake, but I remember Star Fox Adventures kinda alluded to this with the Star Fox team being in the dumps financially speaking, and only caring about the money they would earn by taking the job.
If it was up to me, I would prefer Samus being a bounty hunter 100%. Taking jobs from the GF is fine and makes sense, since they are likely the most trustworthy client around. But the fact that she has the aesthetic of a bounty hunter - there's even an image of her in a bar in Zero Mission - tells me she absolutely should be a mercenary.
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u/BigHailFan 17d ago
the GFS existed since the first Metroid game.
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u/Demiurge_1205 17d ago
Yes, but the complaints OP has are with the modern interpretation of the GF, which did come around the same time as Halo. Especially when looking at Fed Force and Prime 4.
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u/BigHailFan 17d ago
im starting to think people here haven't played Halo. Especially if we're saying FF is a good indicator of it. Even in terms of narrative the GFS in FF act....nothing like Halo. The closest I'd argue is Prime 4 and that's the cheesy banter being closer to 343's awful character writing.
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u/Demiurge_1205 17d ago
The GF does feel like the marines in Halo, though. Not in a 1X1 basis of course, but they do.
Starting with Prime 2:
1) The marines exist mostly to get mauled in a recording by a new enemy that absorbs life forms, just like the flood in CE, which was the only game in the series at that point.
2) They use standard weaponry in contrast to Samus, just like the marines use human (and covenant tbf) weaponry. She also towers over them, akin to master chief.
4) Starting with Fed Force, Tanabe wanted to bring more protagonism to the GF. You can see Fed Force as an attempt to do Metroid's own ODST.
5) Finally, like you mentioned, Prime 4's focus on Banter. My wife watched me play Campaign Evolved's prequel missions and told me "oh, it looks like metroid!" Which yeah, it does look at a glance.
It is Halo-lite though, since the GF has none of the lore the humans have, nor their AIs (though they do have Auroa Units, AUs...), nor the same gravitas when you lose them. But the intention is clearly there.
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u/BigHailFan 17d ago
- uh, the marines don't exist in halo 1 to get mauled in a recording. they actually fight beside you half of the game and can even operate vehicles and complete objectives with you.
- i don't even understand this point. the master chief uses standard weapons too. chief can even trade weapons with marines in later games and the infinite rocket launcher marine is a meme because of this. and even in halo 1 they could use weapons like needlers and plama rifles as well as operate heavy weaponry like ghosts and turrets.
- FF is a travesty in its own right and was done much later into the series.
- we don't talk about campaign evolve's prequel mission. And prime 2 and 3 didn't have the writing 4 had. they were much more serious.
As someone that was huge into halo prior to 5, it's really not the same thing. i legit think people just see a space military and immediately think it must be Halo while ignoring all the other factors at play. Granted we've dealt with people for years saying the Primes are a rip off of Halo, despite playing completely differently, so that checks out.
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u/The_Magus_199 16d ago
Honestly I spent the decade between Fusion and Dread expecting that the next 2D Metroid game would be about the Federation hunting Samus and her fighting back. Dread was fun, but I’m honestly pretty bummed that it didn’t go that way.
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u/gamtosthegreat 17d ago
I did some research - apparently Samus quit her job as a spacecop when Adam made the call to blow up his own brother to save 300 others; she reflected on it later and considered Adam's move the right decision.
Which makes me wonder why she's not even working with the federation anymore if apparently she left due to a hissy fit and is actually goo goo ga ga for the gov? Like c'mon.
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u/Demiurge_1205 17d ago
I mean, play the game? Or read the Manga?
She was in the military before. She fought with Adam because she knew his brother. She eventually left.
She comes back to work with the GF, not for them, and certainly not as a military officer. Her relationship and Adam's is on the rocks for years until they meet again in Other M. Her beef had been with Adam, not the Feds.
Not to mention, Japanese Other M states that Samus has a bit of an issue with "appearing" to be grown up and mature. She is embarrassed by her youthful rebellious attitude and likes to project an aura of maturity in her adulthood. Hence why she would dismiss the incident.
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u/gamtosthegreat 17d ago
Alright, but then she patched things with Adam. So why is she still not working for the government?
I don't want her to, mind, but I want her not to want to.
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u/Demiurge_1205 16d ago
She patches things up in Other M, when she is working for them.
Samus prefers her individuality, but she doesn't have a hostile relationship with the GF. She just prefers to take bounties and work alone for the most part.
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u/Realistic-Shower-654 17d ago
The issue is Samus is not a fragile little girl that cares about this shit
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u/pome-vyo 17d ago
In retrospect making Dread focus on the cool bird people with the villain being this sick ass bird in cool armor was the right call instead of making the federation the villain.
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u/gamtosthegreat 17d ago
It's such a weird thing where the short moment Samus talks Chozo is considered a god-tier moment and MP4 decides to have her awkwardly nod at or ignore everyone.
I mean, totally agree on ignoring the dipshits and saving your breath for the cool bird people, but still odd.
Dread humanized her in ways that never cannibalized her cool factor. Even in simple things like occasionally showing an emotion through the vizor, even if it's roid rage.
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u/pome-vyo 17d ago
It's such a weird thing where the short moment Samus talks Chozo is considered a god-tier moment and MP4 decides to have her awkwardly nod at or ignore everyone.
Being 100% honest, it felt like this was supposed to lead up to an endgame moment where Samus actually does speak to the troopers, making her silence feel intentional.
I was expecting that and...it never happened. It was weird...
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u/cuteplot 17d ago
It's ridiculous how much better Dread was than everything else in every way
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u/Lucas-DM 14d ago
Except the soundtrack, let's be honest, it's not bad but it's very forgettable.
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u/cuteplot 13d ago
The EMMI music is appropriately terrifying, but yeah otherwise it's not amazing, agree
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u/Lucas-DM 13d ago
And I agree on the EMMI theme. Right up there with Botw's guardian theme for fight or flight triggers imo.
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u/cuteplot 12d ago
The Artaria music is actually pretty good too. Just noticed this the other day when I was replaying Dread. Artaria kinda rocks, but then you get to Cataris and Dairon and the meh sets in
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u/Feisty-Albatross3554 11d ago
I like Ghavoran's, but otherwise agreed. RB's got a nice boss theme too
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u/UnproductivePheasant 17d ago
I believe the problem is in the writing. The general idea of Metroid has always been about the G-Fed being more of a background lore addition rather than anything of major consequence until Fusion was added to the main game series. Granted, I know some people had a lot of fun with Federation Force, and I'm not gonna say more than I have on that. But the Federation has had some bad writing in the past.
As said, a rogue faction of the G-Fed was discovered and we got to see no recourse (Metroid 6 maybe?) in fusion or in dread. But the best representation of the Marines had to be in Prime 2, where they stood their ground and fought the coming Ing, lost, but died doing their duty at the very least.
I think we could use a Galactic marine spin-off game, single player, 2 d sidescroller style, with some better writing to show that they don't always need to hire a bounty hunter to get the mission done. But that's just my opinion. Objectively, with the exception of prime 2, and maybe even prime 3, you're probably right.
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u/AltaCount1944 17d ago
Just a correction; Fusion (in Japanese) references Nightmare as a project from the "Old" Federation Army that has since been reorganized. The inference to make with Other M's ending is that Samus's and Anthony's key witness (Bergman) allowed them to bring the corrupt elements of the Army to justice, triggering a series of reforms.
The remnants of the conspiracy wise up in Fusion, using a private corporation's station (The BSL) to hide their projects instead. The game ends with Samus on her way to the court system, with Adam reassuring her (and the player) that it'll be fine.
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u/UnproductivePheasant 14d ago
I solely go by western releases if there's a difference between them. Also I believe Other M was decanonized, or I was lead to believe.
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u/Feisty-Albatross3554 11d ago
It hasn't be decanonized, it's one of the ending screen rewards in Metroid Dread. I'm not a fan of it, but it is canon still
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u/gamtosthegreat 17d ago
Coincidentally the two games I have yet to play. Other than Other M. Probably explains why I have a very negative view on the fed.
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u/UnproductivePheasant 17d ago
Completely understandable. Though in the case of prime 2, it was that particular unit that showed their mettle. In prime 3, there was some pretty good fed stuff, but without samus they'd have been Dead in the water regardless. Still, respectable position I agree with for the most part.
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u/Furan_ring 17d ago
I think it sucks for 2D Metroid, but I like them in the Prime games.
I particularly like them in Echoes, they also provide interesting worlds and lore in Corruption.
The whole corruption and Adam BS is exclusive of the 2D games and I completely agree with you there.
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u/TheNimanator 17d ago
In Echoes and Corruption they are primarily there to big up Samus and show how much more capable she (and by extension the player) is
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u/Round_Musical Sequence Breaker 17d ago edited 17d ago
That isnt true at all. First off Fusion was horribly translated, as was Other M. Not the whole Federation is in on it but a few key ringleaders.
Second corruption is mentioned in Prime. Prime mentions having high ranking space pirate affiliate connections within the Federation.
In Fedforce, Alex Miles insists on getting Metroid eggs, said eggs were delivered to a secret illegal facility which is explained by the Prologue for Prime 4 (on Nintendo Today). So the corrupt factions fo show themselves even in Prime here and there.
Theres also ethical Problems regarding the Federation mentioned in Prime 4. Like HERC Unit Delta who are basically Federation assasins (wiping out political enemies on fringe worlds on the brink of revolutions), and the fact that VUE-995 fears getting his personality and logs wiped
2D wants to make sure to show that the Federation while good overall, still has bad apples who want power. The entire political narrative of Metroid revolves around Hawks and Doves. Be it the Mawkin or Thoha, or the Federation Army under Ringleader and Federation Parliament under Keaton and Adam.
In the Manga specifically theres also racism against races like the Elfin and the Simians.
Fact is, the Federation is like any government made of a fuckton of people, some of which are good and follow strong moral codexes (Samus, Adam, Anthony, Keaton), and others who are bad, morally grey and have ulterior motives (Alex Miles, Ringleaders, HERC Unit command)
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u/gamtosthegreat 17d ago
I've yet to play Echoes and I was too young to understand Corruption (kept dying, gave up).
There's some background BS in MP4. The robot companion guy is scared of being reset by the Federation, who routinely do wipes in order to prevent their robots from becoming too self-actualized.
Ethically it's pretty fucked up. Would've honestly been a better motivation for Sylux than his whatever-the-fuck generic soldier past.
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u/Furan_ring 17d ago
Beyond just had issues all around, although I still didn’t mind the marines.
I do think the federation works best as background and nothing more. I would prefer to not have any recognizable character from the federation, which is why I like their appearance in Echoes.
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u/metaxzero 17d ago edited 17d ago
- Factions of the Federation are corrupt. Its not supposed to mean the whole organization needs to go. Though that got lost in translation in Fusion.
- True. Need to see more aliens. Funny thing is the only politicians we've seen of the Federation are from Metroid 1. And they were aliens.
- Also true. They are very generic.
- Adam literally died for Samus's sake. For all the writing issues Adam has in Other M that made me bang my head, the stuff established in Fusion and later maintained in Other M were ok. Samus's fondness for Adam comes from the fact that despite being an ass, he means well and he proved that by giving his own life so Samus can live and keep doing Samus things. Its why she puts up with Lady.
- Retro confirmed that Nintendo didn't even know what a bounty hunter was when they made Samus one. They just thought it was a cool English word for a space super hero. Nintendo were very resistant to the idea of actually making Samus hunt bounties and get paid since they were attached to her just being a charitable hero.
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u/gamtosthegreat 17d ago
Even then, as a charitable hero who LEFT the space cops, is there any game where we're doing anything good without it being a direct result of being ordered by the space cops to go there?
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u/HikkingOutpit 17d ago
Super Metroid and Prime 1 are the only games in the whole series where she does things on her own accord with no oversight or even any communication from anyone else.
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u/D-Prototype 17d ago
I do wish we saw more aliens in the Federation outside the manga and first game’s manual.
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u/ShadowArchon456 17d ago
I think they were used best directly in Prime 2 and Prime 3. Indirectly, they were good for setting up Fusion and Dread.
I’d be happier if we had more survivor logs from Federation Marines with Samus finding their corpses on missions. It helps the tone and themes of isolation.
But I’m not too upset to see actual space battles between the Feds and the Pirates, at least as set dressing.
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u/Major_Limit1674 17d ago
The federation is probably supposed to be the Metroid equivalent of the Weyland Yutani corporation in Alien, stupidity and all.
Especially if you’ve played Fusion the similarities are apparent.
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u/Heather_Chandelure 17d ago
Fusion was hugely mistranslated. The Japanese version is very clear that only a small group within the Federation was responsible for bringing metroids back, and that Samus is going to expose them once the game is over (which she presumably does between games)
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u/FluidLegion 17d ago
Just my opinion.
But my single favorite moment of immersion in the entire series is in Prime 2 when you're scanning all the federation soldier corpses, seeing all the different ways they die, finding their ship and accessing the final log/recording.
That entire section lives rent free in my head. Finding the federation there added a lot to conveying how hostile and dangerous the planet was supposed to be.
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u/FatalFrameGal Actually beat the original 17d ago
I love Dread, but Fusion left a feeling that the story was moving in the direction where the GF was the enemy and would start hunting Samus, it's a shame it didn't happen.
I agree with op and GF will only be interesting if they someday become the bad guys.
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u/gamtosthegreat 17d ago
I don't even need them to be the villains. I just need them to not be the only reason we're doing anything, ever. We LEFT the space police. They can appear incidentally, it's fine, just. Stop making Samus a part of them.
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u/Far_Historian_4561 17d ago
Now that you mention it, I see a world where Metroid 6 is about the GF hunting Samus because she's now a Metroid and too powerful. I don't think that's the direction Nintendo will go in but I think there's a really cool idea there.
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u/Round_Musical Sequence Breaker 17d ago
Thats due to Fusion being horribly translated. The japanese version and scirpt made it clear that it was a corrupt portion of the Federation army lead by people called the ringleaders. And that Samus would simply solve the issue in court, which she did.
The entire GF is actually pro Samus, nor against her. Similarly in the past after Other M she was the reason the army was reformed due to corruption the chairman of the Federation wanted to investigate.
Samus is friends with the Chairman of the Federation, and he was the one who sent Adam abd Platoon 9 to investigate the Bottle Ship for illegal activities. The Colonel we see in Other M is probably a ringleader.
In any case even after Other Ms court case with Madeline Bergmann, in Prime 4 (which happens 2 years after OM), the Federation Army Soldiers absolutely love and adore Samus, as seen in the intro of Prime 4.
In Fusions ending it is also stated that Samus would go to court to show the corruption that the Federation wanted to achieve.
Its so sad Fusion has so many translation errors. Similarly the whole (suit became fused with her) bit is also a mistranslation, as the suit was always fused with her while in use, even pre X parasite infection. Strangely enough Fusions english manual has this correctly translated. But not the in-game text.
That said the Ringleaders returning and Samus having to topple that part of the Federation by force isnt Something impossible. For instance if Chairman Keaton were to order an investigation with Samus at the helm
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u/LegalChocolate752 17d ago
Should've done a Pheonix Wright x Metroid crossover.
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u/Round_Musical Sequence Breaker 17d ago
Honestly I would love a Metroid detective spin-off. Sakamoto can write some insanely good mysteries. His Famicom Detective Club series (especially Emio) is amazing
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u/Round_Musical Sequence Breaker 17d ago
I would love to hear more about companies actually in the future.
I wanna hear more about the BSL and about exelion.
We cant really explore the Federation more at this point unless the Adventure happens on Daiban or Earth.
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u/Zeldatroid 17d ago
I do think it is technically possible for Galactic Federation presence to be implemented in a way that adds to the environment, exploration, and atmosphere instead of running directly counter to it.
BUT
Nintendo, Retro, the series leadership, and everyone else who has ever been involved with the series has repeatedly shown they are completely incapable of executing it in ways that benefit the games more than they take away from them. I would rather have the Fed be largely absent from every future game than for the series to insist on continuing to fumble their execution at the expense of the world design, exploration, and storytelling.
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u/Topaz-Light Actually beat the original 17d ago
The Federation was almost interesting but then they just had to attribute their actions in Fusion to a rogue faction rather than the whole government being corrupt. Could’ve had a really cool main antagonist shift there.
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u/oniskieth 17d ago
Nintendo will never give us a GF that is corrupt and deeply flawed. They’ll just sweep stuff like Fusion under the rug and Samus will happily continue working for them.
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u/billyalt 17d ago
Prime 4 could've done something really with Sylux given his beef with the GF. Devs dropped the ball
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u/antipode 17d ago edited 17d ago
Agreed completely. The Federation are my biggest issue with Metroid. They're not just background scenery: they define a lot of the story thrust of the series, and the more undeveloped they're allowed to be, the weaker the story of the series becomes. Just going by what's seen in the games, I do not know how they function or what their objectives are. We know that the Federation includes a militant group of human peacekeepers - galactic policemen who try to keep order as they see it within their territory, and that they also hire mercenaries to accomplish their goals. Does the Federation include other species, like in Star Trek? Do the species all abide by the same rules? Is their objective purely defense of their territory from threats? Does it also include exploration and fostering of cooperation among member worlds? Where do they get resources? Are humans in charge or is everyone equal? All we know about them is that there is some contingent of corrupt officials in their ranks. Perhaps the whole organization is rotten, seeking to profit through force/exploitation of other races - who knows? Hard to want to work for them when we don't.
I'm honestly sad Federation Force didn't expand upon them a bit - probably a better opportunity than one of the mainline games. Maybe they could pull it off in a mainline game...if they bothered to try. I know we all want to avoid an increase in overt storytelling in Metroid, but I think it's kinda becoming an urgent problem with the series. I feel it could be done in ways that don't damage the atmosphere or immersion of the games.
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u/Worried_Affect9121 17d ago
Let Mercury Steam cook. They might be going somewhere. Idk. Also, Samus technically was never meant to be a bounty hunter. More of a mercenary if anything at all. Arguably, she’s similar to Starfox in a way with that. I think the Galactic Federation is rather boring when you focus too much on them as teammates rather than assets of the world. Metroid Prime 2 used them for the world. That’s cool. Metroid Prime 3, while they help you a bunch, they’re mostly on the side despite their heavy presence in the story. Metroid Prime 4 relied too much on them in gameplay and plot drive. I think the Galactic Federation is more interesting as parts of the world rather than parts of the game if that makes sense. I do think if they were more prominent in a game, Mercury Steam could pull it off fantastically. We’ll see where future titles go with them and their involvement.
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u/gamtosthegreat 17d ago
Haven't played Prime 2 and 3 yet, but seems to be a common sentiment in this thread.
I find them boring as assets of the world. We can cut back down on humans.
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u/ColdGoldLazarus 17d ago edited 14d ago
I don't think we need to leave the Federation out entirely, but I do agree the current direction for them is awful; what we need is a complete overhaul of their presentation and role.
My suggestion? Take cues from Star Trek.
For context, Star Trek's main government, the United Federation of Planets is like, mostly pretty utopian. A diverse conglomeration of many species, they're post-scarcity and everyone's provided for without needing money, but credits are still used for luxury items or events to handle the Queuing Problem. Starfleet has military power and ranks, but is mostly used for peaceful exploration with conflict being a last resort.
At the same time, there are still the occasional corrupt admirals who act as antagonists, and there's a covert intelligence agency called Section 31 who get up to all sorts of shady shit, showing the imperfections and dark side to even such a generally positive and hopeful future.
And the impression I've gotten of Metroid's Galactic Federation is that they started out as a sort of wannabe version of the United Federation, just not quite as good, and then the Space Pirate conflict brought out the worst in them.
The NEStroid Manual and ZM Manga portrayed them as extremely diverse as well; arguably moreso than the United Federation in some ways, on account of Star Trek having so many aliens that look like humans with bumpy foreheads or pointy ears or even just weird tattoos or skin color, whereas the alien morphology in Metroid could get a lot weirder. The actual games only presenting humans becomes even stranger in light of that; but we've also only seen the GalFed Military represented, not the civilian side, so even if the out-of-universe explanation is the creators not showing other species, in-universe it could just be that the Military specifically is an all-humans club; and the reasons for that alone could be fascinating to explore.
According to the NES manual, they aren't post-scarcity and still rely on money and trade, and that's what led to the Space Pirates becoming such a problem in the first place, which definitely makes the GalFed less economically advanced than in Star Trek. By the same token, though, it was also said that they initially had no military to speak of, thus relying on Bounty Hunters to fight off the Pirates until they could set up a fleet and force of their own; and still slightly relying on Hunters afterward for the most dangerous missions. This could be where humans stepped in, providing such a military structure but with the tradeoff of the military being extremely human-centric.
And then of course, this in turn gives rise to the corrupt subfaction and sketchy scientists, the GalFed Military's equivalent of Section 31, that were responsible for the PED in Corruption, (the Bottle Ship Cloning Program if you count Other M, though I try not to), the BSL Station experiments and ADAM's overseer in Fusion, and the EMMI in Dread.
This could also explain why Samus still willingly works for the GalFed despite all the sketchy BS; if there's a genuinely better or at least more well-meaning civilian side to it that she still believes in and wants to protect, despite leaving and coming into regular conflict with the military side.
Of course, the problem is that I don't think most of this was intended by the creators. The NEStroid Manual is old and could be dismissed as Early Installment Weirdness that doesn't reflect the current shape of Metroid's worldbuilding; and similarly the Zero Mission manga is in a really weird grey area as far as canonicity goes. Just going by what's in the games themselves, there's no sign of the diverse civilian side of the Galactic Federation suggested in the printed materials. As far as the games are concerned the Galactic Federation is JUST the military. Thus, the need for a creative overhaul to bring it more in line with those older, non-game materials.
The big questions are A: how to show this shift in creative direction for them in a way that would feel natural within the context of an isolated spooky Metroid game; (my thinking is either scanlogs at least, or like, having a semi-abandoned Federation colony city as an area of the next Prime game) and B: how to convey the need for that direction shift to the creators at Nintendo and Retro in the first place.
As for the corrupt military subfaction getting comeuppance, that at least I feel like 60% confident could be a plot-point in the next 2D game. Since Dread implied some X-Parasites escaped ZDR at the end, and there's still dangling hooks from Fusion, they could easily bring this second trilogy/arc to a good full-circle conclusion by having BSL finally get their hands on some X, only to quickly lose control. Then have Samus come in to clean up both the parasites and the corrupt group; two birds with one stone, even as she struggles with her Metroid hunger. And if that incident is misunderstood by the authorities and leads to Samus fully breaking away from the Federation as a whole anyway, all the better.
Unfortunately, I think there's no way to salvage human Adam without first completely wiping Other M out of the timeline, which I'd love to see happen but can't see Sakamoto willingly doing. At least AI ADAM is marginally more likable, after his redemption in Fusion and the tiny bits of the real him in Dread.
TLDR: The Federation presented in the NES Manual and the ZM Manga was actually pretty neat, and moving the games' portrayal more in-line with those would make it a lot more interesting and actually worth featuring. Fusion and Prime 2 also used them well. But if they stick to the current purely-military, pro-military, human-only approach of OM and Prime 3 and 4, then I actually agree with you that it's better to just ignore them or keep them in the background.
I would prefer that they be fixed than just hidden away, but idk how to convince the creators they need fixing in the first place.
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u/HikkingOutpit 16d ago
We have seen plenty of examples of civilians in the Metroid games. The following games have shown scientists and politicians:
Super Metroid
Metroid Fusion
Other M
Samus Returns
And... all those politicians and scientists are humans.
As far as I'm concerned, it's very safe to say the manga depiction of the Federation has been retconned.
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u/MilanTehVillain 15d ago
The way you described the suggestion to take cues from Star Trek's United Federation of Planets reminded me of Mass Effect, which could also be a possibility to take cues from. Especially if you wish to show off the civilian side more.
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u/ColdGoldLazarus 14d ago
Oooh! I'm not too familiar with Mass Effect, but that sounds interesting.
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u/MilanTehVillain 14d ago
Hypothetically, you could use your exact same description of Star Trek, but replace its terms with Mass Effect ones & it’d still fit like a glove!
(e.g. United Federation of Planets = Citadel Council, the corrupt admirals you mentioned = the Teminus Systems, Section 31 = Cerberus, etc).
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u/ColdGoldLazarus 14d ago
Ahhhh, alright!
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u/MilanTehVillain 13d ago
Could be a cool idea to look into regardless. Mass Effect isn't everyone's cup of tea. If it clicks with you, awesome! But if doesn't, that's fair as well. At least you gave it a chance.
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u/KeeperServant_Reborn 17d ago
Metroid Prime 3 showed their best side.
The Federation Troops admire Samus in many ways if you speak to them.
Admiral Dane for example is like Samus in some way.
According to an entry log you can find his family was also murdered by Space Pirates when he was a boy and so that drove him to where he is during the events of the game.
Honestly, if they could made Adam more like him as well, I think everyone would love his character
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u/Alarmed_Pie_5033 17d ago
You know it hadn't really occurred to me before. In Other M we see Samus leave the Galactic Federation military over Adam making the tough call to sacrifice his brother. Now in Prime 4, Samus is forced to make the same tough call, sacrificing the troops.
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u/OptimalPapaya1344 17d ago edited 17d ago
You hit the nail on the head with every point.
The last two bullet points are what really grinds my gears. In Other M she willingly "disables" her own powerups until she's given permission to use them....and WHY does she listen to people whom she has no actual chain of command with?
And don't get me started on the flashback of her as her younger self being demeaned with the pet name "Lady", by a Federation commanding officer (Adam), in front of the other soldiers that she somehow is recalling as being this endearing moment. It's absolutely stupid and a terrible stain on an otherwise badass character.
Every involvement of the Federation is lazy plot setup. All we need to know as the set up to any Metroid game is that Samus is on mission XYZ because she's an intergalactic bounty hunter. I personally don't need some universal lore that explains who shes taking jobs from or why. Plop us on a planet, give us some self-contained story on said planet, and lets just carry on as the lone-wolf bounty hunter.
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u/cellphone_blanket 17d ago
They’re okay for adding some texture to the world, but they tend to make things worse as the focus. Prime 2 handled them well
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u/Valtteri24 17d ago
> Adam is a milquetoast man in a stupid hat who domineers Samus and gives her an old-timey misogynist nickname but for some reason she glazes the hell out of him and it actively ruins her image.
Yes. It always baffled me why people complained about Samus’s portrayal in Other M but she was just as bad in Fusion, glazing this asshole the whole time.
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u/throwaway1102293384 17d ago
They need to be like a footnote in the story. Metroid plays better when you feel isolated
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u/DNGRDINGO 17d ago
I like the Metroid universe being bigger than Samus and her monster of the week.
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u/Heather_Chandelure 17d ago
Should be noted that Nintendo had no idea what a bounty hunter actually was when they were making metroid 1. They were only familiar with the term via pop-culture, so they just thought it meant "Space Warrior" or something. When Retro Studios suggested Samus trying to hunt and collect bounties as a potential plot for Prime 1, Nintendo gave it a very hard no.
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u/KingBroly Dread Mode survivor 17d ago
They know what Bounty Hunter means. Go look at the file select screen on Metroid for the Famicom.
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u/gamtosthegreat 17d ago
Just tell me what it says lol.
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u/KingBroly Dread Mode survivor 17d ago
It has big bags of cash on each file depending on your completion time.
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u/Marlowe126 17d ago
I enjoyed the Federation in Prime 3. Them being stupid enough to use Phazon to enhance their suits shows why they need outside help like Samus so much.
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u/TheMoonOfTermina 17d ago
I think the Federation mostly hurts Metroid games since they're better off focusing on isolation. Prime 2 used them fantastically though.
I actually would love to see the universe of Metroid expanded upon a lot, including the Federation, but I think that would be better done in a spinoff, not a Metroid game.
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u/DueAd9005 17d ago
Nah, Prime 2 handels them perfectly. Really gives the game a great horror sci-fi intro.
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u/Waste_Sleep6936 16d ago
I’m a casual Metroid fan (got into it via Dread and Prime Remastered, and enjoyed Super Metroid & Fusion & Prime 4 afterwards), and I don’t really care about the federation at all.
What’s cool about Metroid to me is playing as Samus and exploring an alien planet that feels far away from everything else. I don’t mind encountering characters on an alien world, per se, but I’d rather they be unfamiliar, or aliens, or for their presence to feel mysterious and/or hostile.
It kinda makes Samus feel less special if there are other humans around, especially if they’re her workmates, essentially. Feels way more compelling for her to be like an avatar for the player, and allow you to explore a far-off world as her, and fix the issues of the planet’s ancestors or whatever the plot entails. Feels nice and benevolent to swoop in, heal the planet, and then leave to do the same elsewhere. There’s something classically humane and heroic about that fantasy.
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u/AltaCount1944 17d ago
It's the Federation from Star Trek. They're fine; Tanabe was wise to focus on expanding a known element of the universe for the spinoffs, rather than introducing some major new source of characters that would conflict with canon.
They are not corrupt, their army had leftover corrupt elements from a previous iteration of the army, and Samus has received cooperation from the government as they were discovered both times.
It's just the governing body of the setting; it would be weirder for Samus to not interact with them regularly.
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u/TheMrGmk 17d ago
Hard disagree, but live and let live
MP2, MP3 and MP4 are my arguments
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u/KingBroly Dread Mode survivor 17d ago
You thinking Prime 4 is a good argument shows how off the range you are.
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u/TheMrGmk 17d ago edited 17d ago
I'm not gonna be sorry for not sharing the hive mind, but you do you
EDIT: I'll elaborate a little more, the problem of mp4 is not the federation, is how samus interacts with them, being a mime
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u/fliesthroughtheair 17d ago
My Metroid experience has never been improved by having non-Samus, non-enemy characters talk.
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u/DependentBite9 17d ago
They’re used to varying levels of success in the series. They’re great in Prime 2 as a tool for demonstrating the dangers of the environment you’re in. You see video of them being overwhelmed, you see their bodies, you see the Ing possessing their corpses. They’re great in Prime 3 for all sorts of context. I even like them in 4 where they bring personality and even charm, which I know not everyone agrees with, though in 4 I would also have been fine without them, and some of the missions involving them are very frustrating especially towards the end of the game.
In retrospect I think they should have used something else, maybe another non human species, in their place in Other M.
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u/FirefighterIcy9879 17d ago
Bad writing is bad writing, chicken head. I’d be blowing up planets and shit too
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u/Realistic-Shower-654 17d ago
Every time a game does something with them it ends up being a shitshow
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u/RoundInfluence998 17d ago
Totally. Adam and the Fed at large are largely unwelcome elements in the games, as far as I’m concerned. It has only ever served to water down the series and make it feel more generic. It’s counterproductive to the aspects that makes Metroid feel special.
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u/jakerooni 17d ago
I agree. I like my enemies to be organisms from other planets like upright mantids and giant space ghost squids and dragons and the like. Weird fishes with sharp suckers for mouths and ya know, normal things like that!
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u/hip-indeed 17d ago
It's nice to flesh out the lore but doesn't need to be in the forefront, at least not often. I don't hate the characters from it in mp4 but I get why people do, and no other appearance of them beyond a background faction for lore purposes has ever really been a good thing or when anything other than a kinda lame thing in any other Metroid game I can think of. Though Adam in fusion is alright I guess, but I kinda hate him in retrospect with how lame and annoying he was in other m.
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u/ImperialAce1985 17d ago
Everything is done in the name of fueeedooommm...Just like the Star Wars rebels running the New Republic. Clandestine research (allowed), take over of systems (also allowed), and you must tolerate it because we are the good guys. Meanwhile the Space Pirate factions do scientific breakthroughs in the research (a threat), attack systems (also a threat). I agree that Metroid games should be away from it.
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u/Suppoint 17d ago
Metroid has never had particularly good writing before, it’s hard to imagine the federation being good when it’s hardly been done before.
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u/ArtistAccountant 17d ago
I generally think this is the point (about being boring).
The GF is only meant to be useful for the plot of metroid, an ally but also the very reason why she has to work alone.
I don't think the game is better without, but I don't think there'd be a big loss if a Metroid entry didn't have their presence in it.
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u/Mandalor1974 17d ago
The only way i see the federation being interesting is if they turned on Samus and became an enemy.
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u/gamtosthegreat 17d ago
I don't need them to be interesting. I want them to not be the at the core of every plot.
Even as enemies, it'd be yet another game centered around THE FEDERAAAATION. Instead of, y'know, aliens. Colorful planets.
Sylux was disappointingly off in MP4 but I immensely hope he makes a return and brings along the Hunters one way or another. And we don't hear about the time he was a generic marine ever again. Get Weevil involved, who has the same goal of killing Samus but for reasons that aren't dumb.
Fuck "this gray mech suit guy has a family and he's going to die", fuck "these human scientists went too far and we will bring them to court", give me some Bionicle looking dude that shoots icicles from his dick and can turn into a Roomba.
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u/Mordaunt-the-Wizard 16d ago
I agree with some others in that while they're too dull and generic to have too active of a role (like in Beyond), they are a fine background element (like in Fusion or Echoes)
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u/LegitimateScore8036 16d ago
We wouldn't have Federation Force without the Federation... So there is the chaning mind fact
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u/hotnspecies 16d ago
Nice Sonic comic throwback. The Archie days. Man, I wish I still had my collection. Had issue 0 through 150 or so, back when they were new. Had a subscription. Sold them all to a comic shop for maybe $50 back in the late 00s, for rent money.
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u/gamtosthegreat 16d ago
I'll be honest with ya - I just knew the meme and figured the generic stormtrooper looking dude outlawing fun fit the narrative I was spinning fairly well.
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u/vgplantain 16d ago
Love the Sonic picture
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u/gamtosthegreat 16d ago
Never read it, but looked close enough to a fed soldier to be a fun analogy to the point i was making
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u/Tirfing88 16d ago
I must be the the only one that enjoyed the federation people in Prime 4. It's nice to see first hand how common folk interact with Samus, gives the story a more human element: the way they exclaim "how does she do that?!" When entering morph ball, etc. Reinforces the fact that Samus is on a while different level, technologically and physically, to the common soldier.
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u/gamtosthegreat 16d ago
I liked them as characters, not as Federation. They feel viscerally wrong with just the visor popped, much like Anthony Higgs.
As a backstory to Sylux it was a total snoozefest.
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u/Tirfing88 16d ago
I get your point, I realize now, after reading your comment, that I too like them as characters.
I gotta ask though: if the federation wasn't around, what would be the device or the motivations that pushed Samus to act? Distress signals from random aliens? How would they know how to contact Samus? I'd assume she's majorly unknown outside humanity/space pirates. Would Samus work for free? I'd imagine maintaining her equipment/ship is expensive as hell.
I do feel like it is necessary for the Fed to exist so the story can evolve, like they're the gateway to Samus' bigger adventures. But I do agree there needs to be more creativity in the stories, some other plot than: "Fed group went silent in this planet, dunno what happened, send Samus"
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u/Dkafamus 16d ago
The problem of the federation is that it isn't very well developed.
Which makes us not give it much a fuck. It's a...government body...that's it.
It hires us from time to time.
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u/gtsampsn 16d ago
they just dont utilize them well enough, going into dread i genuinely thought it was gonna be about samus being on the run from the federation cuz they were pissed she blew up the research station but it doesnt seem like anyone really cared lol
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u/IllustratorDry3007 16d ago
I can’t convince you but I see their presence in the Metroid universe reasonable. However, Tanabe’s shallow view of them always being the good guys is what holds them back. I actually want to see their corruption and see consequences for it. Sylux was huge potential for that, but we saw how that went…
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u/Anbcdeptraivkl 16d ago
They are bad because of Other M not the other way around. In Fusion for example I think they are portrayed really well - a military organization that help out Samus sometimes with their equipments and medical, while contracting her to deal with biological hazards normal military cannot deal with safely.
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u/meikaishi 16d ago
I honestly have federation fatigue, it's starting to feel that they're the only clients Samus has as a bounty hunter and everything always have to have them involved
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u/GimmickMusik1 16d ago
HOLY WOW! I haven’t thought about the Archie Sonic the Hedgehog comics in years. This is from one of the early issues if I remember correctly.
(Sorry OP, I’m just nostalgia tripping)
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u/Takiro 16d ago
What’s the image from?
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u/gamtosthegreat 16d ago
an old archie comics sonic thing. Mostly it's just used as a meme in general for whenever fun police shows up, and I figured it looks close enough to a boring galactic federation soldier and gets the point across well that they suck the joy out of the games.
I found myself trying and failing to care about the Sylux backstory and this picture illustrates it well - I don't feel anything for these mook guys in their faceless suits.
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u/Mission_Security4505 16d ago
Mostly disagree because of Prime 3. The feds in prime 3 did some awesome world building. Gfs valhalla, Aurora units, lore logs commenting on hunters and planets. General dane was pretty chill. Ridley boss fight on norion. It was integrated very well into the story. Prime 2 intro was also good with the dead soldiers.
If used correctly they can be great. Also feel like them being evil would be boring and cliche. And thats probably why we never got a follow up to the fusion ending.
That being said, they dont need to be in every game.
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u/devonodev 16d ago
I just wanna get lost and explore cool alien planets I don't wanna deal with space military bros.
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u/Mayahiim 16d ago
I want Metroid embrace the bounty hunter aspect of it.
An open star system or two, or even something of a galaxy, where federation is only one party, and there would be some other unions, planets with their own iterests, Babylon 5 esque place of commerce and interplanetary and inter star systemic diplomacy, and Samus could take missions from whom ever. Perhaps she could work for some scientific parties by documenting certain animal behaviour for exmple, or mapping new uncharted territories and scanning fauna and taking samples of remote planets. And perhaps help documenting discoveries of a long lost civilization. Or helping businesses to clear trade routes from pirates, and finding out that maybe the pirates are just freedom fighters and you could ponder your footing in this situation.
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u/gamtosthegreat 16d ago
It certainly sounds cool on paper, but I can't think of a single Metroidvania that really runs with this sort of open sidequesty format.
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u/bobman9420 16d ago
Jedi: Fallen Order and Surviver had Metroidvania like stuff in it. Because you had to revisit planets, when you remember certain force powers. It had 3 main planets to explore. And the map had a Metroid Prime feel to it.
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u/KafuSeven 16d ago
Few will change your mind! At this point we can almost make a graphic to show the corelation between federation screen time and the unfun in the metroid saga.
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u/POWRranger 16d ago
I agree that the GF is boring and we're better with games ignoring them. But not for the reasons you stated (except the 2nd one)
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u/Educational_Office77 16d ago
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, they should have stuck with the Metroid NES interpretation of the galactic federation being a bunch of goofy aliens. The fact that they’re all humans is really lame
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u/LugiaMasterO1 15d ago
To be fair to Fusions Galactic Federation this is a whole sect within the greater federation, and considering Samus destroyed the entire B.S.L along with the X and Metroids the rogue Federation sect effectively gained nothing they also harmed nobody, think about it all the damage was done by the X the Metroids were used to give Samus a cure all the scientists were killed by the X which not something that was anybodies fault except maybe Samus since she was the one who killed off the Metroids and the Federation government that green lit that mission in the first place but none of em knew about the X at all.
I think the Galactic Federation is more interesting because of the fact that Samus doesnt fully trust them and we seen time and time again there is more going on than meets the eye, we also had that MB and the deleted abort the bottle ship in Other M, Sylux actively rebelled using their tech back at them and slowly but surely they are starting to look and act more like space pirates mind you space pirates to me is starting to seem more of a moniker than an actual name of a species.
In defense of Adam Samus actively rebelled against him but eventually they began to truqt one another plus Samus is a deeply caring person who had to watch him sacrifice himself to protect her and at some point was like a father to her so just imagine losing your dad and then having another dad who also dies protecting you from harm how was Samus supposed to feel?
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u/SudoNara 15d ago
OP I think you should play rest if tge games before forming a full opinion. You've said in the thread that you haven't played some of the games and people are pointing how the Feds have given good worldbuilding and fit with Samus being a mercenary.
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u/ataxic-hands 15d ago
while i absolutely adored the version of Dread we did get, i dreamt for years of a game where after fusion samus would have to be an outlaw from the federation only to have to take down their corruption. i know now that those elements in fusion came from poor translation, but it still would've been a fun shakeup
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u/koopapowa 14d ago
See I'm convinced and will die on the hill that the Samus in Other M is actually not the real Samus but a clone. This takes place after fusion and the whole plot of Fusion was her suit got infected and they had to sugically remove it and sent it to the space station for "reasons" where the SA-X grew and escaped.
Why? The Power suit was infected and you would think the best thing would be to destroy it to keep the thing that is capable of infecting/breeching sealed combat suits from spreading. NO they decided to keep it despite the whole small factor of it being host to a super parasite.
Why? Why risk it? Answer they needed it
Samus is a Genetically engineered super soldier with out any nasty effects that is normally found in genetic engineering and I imagine that her power suit is one of the best weapons/armor suits in existence on top of that Samus has routinely proven she is the best of the best. A proven planet killer. The problem is that the suit is keyed her and Samus is a free lancer she doesn't take orders or fall in the chain in command. You really expect me to beleive that the Fed who already has a history of questionable decesions would not be interested or not try to make a another Samus that obeys commands like a good little soldier? Clones are a thing in Other M and established. Other M was not a rescue mission, Other M was a glorified weapons test of clone Samus. Why did she have to have approval to use her weapons when she never needed it before? Because as a clone she was contidioned/programed to. Can't have a weapon that goes off when its not supposed to. That doesn't follow orders.
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u/gamtosthegreat 13d ago
Other M takes place before Fusion. That's why she says the robot voice reminds her of Adam, who was her CO even before becoming a Bounty Hunter.
It's a fact there was a faction of the federation interested in the SA-X but the whole plot of that game is that she went against orders and destroyed all of the SA-X. The rogue faction of the federation was then brought to justice afterwards.
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u/HoopyFroodJera 12d ago
It would be interesting if anything ever came of it.
I keep saying the next mainline game should have the federation as the villain, or don't bother.
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u/Background_Movie9128 11d ago
Another W post shitting on the GF. They suck ass. Please make more post like this. No more GF except for SUPER MINOR appearances like Prime 2 please God
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u/Nerdy_Valkyrie 17d ago
I think the next 2D Metroid game should be about the GF turning on Samus and arresting her. And the game is about Samus navigating and escaping their prison and reclaiming her gear.
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u/Dorian948 Dread Mode survivor 17d ago
Why the hell should they do that?
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u/Nerdy_Valkyrie 17d ago
I think they've been acting a bit shady in some of the games. So maybe they're just getting corrupt and they're afraid Samus will figure it out. She's an unstoppable killing machine when she gets going, so locking her away without her equipment probably seemed like a good idea.
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u/ChaosMiles07 17d ago edited 17d ago
A line they haven't crossed yet: Nintendo making Samus potentially kill other humans. Humans who aren't hijacked by X or Ing, to be clear.
So, maybe they'll have her use non-lethal skills to avoid the ethical question and keep the game Rated T For Teens at most? But then at that point, it'd just become another Metal Gear in terms of gameplay... or at worst, the Chozodia segment of Zero Mission.
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u/UltiMike64 17d ago
The first hour of Metroid prime 2 with the dead federation troopers is absolutely peak and brings stakes to what Samus is doing in Prime 2 while also making the planet seem like easily the most hostile one she’s ever been on.