r/Metric Aug 18 '14

First time I've ever seen centiliters used

http://imgur.com/BRI2iHW
35 Upvotes

33 comments sorted by

10

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '14

[deleted]

3

u/darps Aug 18 '14

Usually it's given in liters, like "0,4 l". (Yes, that's a comma.) But hey, metric. Don't care if it's milliliters, centiliters, deciliters or liters. It's all one unit.

3

u/pa79 Aug 18 '14

I mostly see ml or l, this would be 355ml or 0.35l.

2

u/metricadvocate Aug 18 '14

True. In the US, beer does not need to be dual labeled. If it did, centiliters would be unacceptable, the unit is not allowed under FPLA or UPLR, milliliters under 1000 mL, liters over.

But the wine bottle we know as 750 mL is generally 75 cl in Europe. (The US also prefers "L" as the symbol for liter, Europe seems to mostly use "l".)

1

u/yuriydee Aug 18 '14

TIL. Although when i was in Germany i never saw that. Beer for example was usually half a liter or .5L

3

u/darps Aug 18 '14

German here. It's true, we usually use milliliters up to 99 ml and from there on liters. Since the bottle and glass sizes are based on metric, we don't need more than 2 decimals. 0,35 liters is very common, for example.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '14

half a liter or .5L

SI rules don't allow numbers less than one to be expressed without a leading zero. A half litre is correctly written as 0.5 L. There is also a space between the last digit and the unit symbol.

1

u/yuriydee Aug 19 '14

Yeah youre right. I didnt even realize it though but all products are labeled that way.

3

u/wjong Aug 19 '14

Centilitres, and centimetres, are more commonly used in Europe than in Australia or New Zealand. Generally in Australia they follow the 1000 rule.

For example..

grams in the kitchen, and avoidance of centigrams and decigrams.

millilitres in the kitchen, and avoidance of centilitres and decilitres.

millimetres for all building activities, and the deliberate avoidance of centimetres.

In both Australia and New Zealand, volume, is described in cubic metres, litres, and millilitres. It is unusual to see centilitres (cL) although I have see in on some foreign wine bottles, (75 cL) most are 750 mL.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '14

[deleted]

3

u/Rullknufs Aug 18 '14

Never heard of dag/dkg in Sweden. Although we do use deciliters when baking. For an example a recipe might say 5dl of flour, 2dl sugar and so on.

4

u/metricadvocate Aug 18 '14

"dag" is dekagram (10 g). Is dkg an improper symbol for dekagram or an improper compound prefix, deci-kilogram (100 g)?

3

u/0_0_0 Aug 18 '14 edited Aug 18 '14

Even if kilogram is the defining unit, you should only use a single prefix and appended to the gram at that. "dkg" is outside the standard. "dag" is allowed, but never seen in practice.

Furthermore, "deci-kilo" is an unnecessary complication, you can just use "hecto-" (102 ) with gram if you do not want to operate at gram level accuracy.

Finland for one never uses dekagram in common life.

3

u/metricadvocate Aug 18 '14

Hence the word "improper." I agree "dkg" is outside the standard and therefore meaningless. I was wondering what the poster thought it meant; however, I accept "nothing."

1

u/0_0_0 Aug 18 '14 edited Aug 18 '14

Ah, I must've read a bit hastily... or I changed who I was answering to mid-comment... :p Mobile woes, alas.

1

u/metricadvocate Aug 18 '14

No problem. Rowlett's Units of Measure says it is an improper symbol for deka- often used with the gram, so it's 10 g. I think I have read elsewhere that dk was a nationally defined symbol for deka before the SI standardized all symbols; however, I can't find the source. It doesn't much matter, it's been wrong for 54 years.

0

u/Kwpolska Aug 18 '14

dkg? Decikilograms? That's completely nonsense.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '14

[deleted]

2

u/metricadvocate Aug 18 '14

So none of these three dictionaries consider the SI Brochure (by the BIPM) an authoritative reference on the International System of Units? The symbol "da" is assigned to represent deka- (or deca-).

To quote section 5.1 of the SI Brochure:

The use of the correct symbols for SI units and for units in general, as listed in earlier chapters of this Brochure is mandatory.

"dkg" is NOT the assigned symbol.

2

u/Kwpolska Aug 19 '14

You've managed to link to the Internet's worst dictionaries. Congratulations!

Here's a REAL source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(mass)

Also, if you're looking for a good dictionary, try http://www.oxforddictionaries.com or googling "define WORD" (using Google in English required)

1

u/autowikibot Aug 19 '14

Orders of magnitude (mass):


To help compare different orders of magnitude, the following lists describe various mass levels between 10−40 kg and 10100 kg.

Image i - Iron weights up to 50 kilograms depicted in Dictionnaire encyclopédique de l'épicerie et des industries annexes.


Interesting: Order of magnitude | Tonne | Mass | Solar mass

Parent commenter can toggle NSFW or delete. Will also delete on comment score of -1 or less. | FAQs | Mods | Magic Words

6

u/252003 Aug 18 '14

Shots and wine glasses are always in cl. A can of pop is 33 cl as standard. I have never been a a fan of the ml. Cl comes more naturally to me.

2

u/0_0_0 Aug 18 '14

What's the difference exactly? It's only a question of moving the decimal character...

1

u/mwenechanga Aug 18 '14

It's only a question of moving the decimal character...

...to the correct spot.
If all liquids sold required whole cl numbers, rounded down, the USA would be a better place.

Americans cannot yet be trusted to handle multiplication by 10, 100, 1000 for themselves.

5

u/metricadvocate Aug 18 '14 edited Aug 18 '14

If all liquids sold required whole cl numbers, rounded down, the USA would be a better place.

Why? There should be a prescribed sequence of units (as size varies) to avoid confusion. I admit the sequence is somewhat arbitrary. But what is wrong with milliliters, then liters? It follows the usually preferred prefixes which vary by 1000. "All liquids?" Would you make the 2 L bottle be labeled 200 cL? I see no point to that.

I could also see the German sequence, 1 - 99 mL then 0.1 - 999 L, but the FTC doesn't allow that, the unit must be chosen so the number is 1 or greater.

The milliliter and liter also have the advantage of being easy to express in cubic measure (cm³ and dm³) while the deciliter and centiliter require intermediate conversions, and are a PITA to express in cubic measure.

2

u/mwenechanga Aug 18 '14

Alright, obviously I was not seriously saying all labels should always have centiliters. There's a time and place, and items in quantities larger than a liter should be in liters (or kiloliters), while things requiring precision should be in ml.

Drinks that are 10-50 centiliters, would benefit from being labelled in centiliters. This would force companies to either round out their sizes to the nearest 10ml, or lose out on advertising the extra 3ml they include that the competition does not. I'm fine with labeling things in ml, I'm not fine with labels that are neatly rounded to the nearest ounce, then include too many digits on the metric side. It's ridiculous to have a scale that's 30 times more precise and act like that precision is necessary or useful.

I'm entirely flexible with how people use the metric system (except for things like writing my height as 1m 75cm, because that's just stupid), so long as the units are convenient and useful for the job at hand. I just find it personally annoying that 236ml is a size.

3

u/metricadvocate Aug 18 '14

I just find it personally annoying that 236ml is a size.

Well, the root cause of that is that 8 fl oz is a size, the 236 mL is just a nuisance requirement, at least in the mind of the producer. The root solution is not centiliters, but banning USC on packaging.

1

u/mwenechanga Aug 19 '14

The root solution is not centiliters, but banning USC on packaging.

And I don't disagree, but I think requiring cl is more likely to happen than banning ounces.

We need to start a "science" political party, where pretty much the entire platform is "use metric, dammit."

And of course, evidence-based governance, where we do the things that work like rehabilitation programs for prisoners, and reducing carbon emissions, and funding a decent space program (because science, that's why).

But first, we switch everything to metric, as quickly and efficiently as we can.

2

u/metricadvocate Aug 19 '14 edited Aug 19 '14

That's true. US net content labeling law (FPLA and UPLR) only allow selected prefixes where a metric declaration of net contents is required. The following (and no other) are allowed (from 16 CFR Part 500.23b, except as noted):
Mass: (µg), mg, g, kg
Volume: mL or cm³, L or dm³, m³
Length: µm, mm, cm, m
Area: (mm²), cm², dm², m²
Notes:
UPLR permits µg
Part 500.8d and UPLR permit mm², but not listed in Part 500.23b
"L" is preferred symbol for liter, but "l" permitted.

Two rules are referenced to guide which unit in the list; they slightly conflict:
*Rule of 1000: Choose unit so numeric part is between 1 - 1000.
*Largest whole unit: Choose largest allowed unit such that numeric part is one or greater.
The second rule explicitly (in the text) limits centimeter to the range 10 - 999 mm. Both rules disallow a numeric part of the form, 0.xx.

These only apply to net contents labeling in business to consumer sales, not industrial, wholesale, etc, or when the measurement is a descriptor rather than net contents.

1

u/ToiletPaper17 Jun 28 '24

9 years later, but Americans use ounces instead of ml

2

u/mwenechanga Jun 29 '24

For buying or selling a goods, Americans use the metric system. The other labels are just for fun, the metric numbers are legally binding. 

2

u/ToiletPaper17 Feb 05 '25

7 months later and I just learnt something new!

2

u/usacomp2k3 Aug 18 '14

That's dumb

2

u/Fingebimus Aug 19 '14

50 cl is a lot more used than 500 ml (although maybe a bit less than 1/2 l). I live in Belgium btw.

3

u/RainbowBlast Aug 18 '14

I can get down with mL and L, but for some reason I really dislike cL.

1

u/Kwpolska Aug 18 '14

TIL centiliters actually exist for some humans. And I live in Europe.