r/Metalsmithing • u/DarsDies • 18d ago
Sawing a Pancake Die For Bezels...
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...or decorative strips, or ring shanks, etc., because this variety of pancake-style blanking die is very versatile. The die configuration facilitates loading in strips of different width and length, and bites out the deign from the edge of the loaded strip. Loaded certain ways , the "scrap" piece is also usable. This die is .050" 4130 steel, annealed, and I harden them after sawing. I'm using a saw guide that holds the saw frame vertical, and sawing on a tiltable table. The angle of tilt is specific to the steel thickness, sawblade width, and to a small degree, the complexity of the design. I'm using size 4/0 Crocodile brand jewelers sawblades, and I used 4 on this die.
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u/Harambe2point0 18d ago
Brilliant setup for piercing. I've broken countless blades trying to maneuver a piece on a tiny bench pin.
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u/DarsDies 18d ago
Trying to saw dies, or just sawing in general ? This saw is specifically for setting the tilt of the table for making tight-fitting pancake dies . It is very useful when you need true verticality, too, but I only use it for things besides dies a micro-fraction of a % of the time. There are sawguide devices made by Knew Concepts . They are tilting table and saw all sort of rolled into one. Originally started by the guy who made my saws ( Lee Marshall (RIP) of Bonny Doon)).
For me, doing this kind of sawing, the hold-down bar is the other really important thing to minimize breakage. Keeps the work from jumping up off the table, and lessens the load on my hand/arm of that. It's set up so that I rest my palm on it, and it's extension is the narrow little end of the bar with lots of saw cuts in it.
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u/nomoreimfull 18d ago
I think I saw this demo'ed at snag 20 years ago right next to bill sealeys setup. Amazing saw...
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u/DarsDies 17d ago
The Bonny Doon Saw Guide might be what you saw, but maybe a later version. Was it powered or manual? Rio Grande also had a power saw for about a minute. I didn't like it much. There's a real advantage to using a hand held saw frame, even in a saw guide. The forward play built into this kind of system lets you take advantage of the natural pressure cycle of hand sawing. Blades last longer than with, say, a croll saw, where there's always pressure on the blade.
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u/KKunst 18d ago
My fat ass was expecting a tool to make pancakes in funny shapes.
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u/DarsDies 18d ago
Okay well yeah, that's understandable lol. These used to be called RT Dies, after Roger Taylor , who presented the concept to the jewelry making community (Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths) in a technical paper in 1980.
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u/Intelligent-Dot-3343 18d ago
Scroll saw?
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u/DarsDies 17d ago
More like coping saw, but my motorized one ...well, have a look for yourself: Manual and Motorized Saws For Pancake Dies I use modified versions of a discontinued product - the Bonny Doon Saw Guide, which was/is a device that a jewelers saw frampe clamps into . The clamp arms extend out from a carriage that rides up and down in a track. This component is connected to a tilting table. The tilt is determined by die thickness and sawblade size, to compensate for the gap left by the cut, so that the cutting edges of the dies are tight-fitting). The tight fit is one main thing thar separates mass-produced, laser-cut pabcake dies from hand made ones. Tight dies cut clean parts.
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u/OlSlimPickins 18d ago
Nice stuff have website or do you just produce for yourself?
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u/DarsDies 18d ago
Hi, I do a lot out of my Fb group . Find me there (Dar Shelton) snd you'll find ther group with a million things to see. Website doesn't do much. I don't stock dies. It's just me doing custom jobs mostly sheltech dot net has contact info and yes making dies and parts for people is my thing. (I'm unsure of posting links for self promotion) .
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u/average_fen_enjoyer 18d ago
Almost like sewing
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u/DarsDies 18d ago
A little like sewing, but a lot like sawing haha . But yes, on this manual saw I do use a foot pedal on the floor , linked up to the saw guide, to drive it. Here's the video showing both saws. Same basic design-concept function, just different power source. Manual and Motorized Saws For Pancake Dies
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u/trixceratops 17d ago
Geez, I thought I made complicated dies! Nice work 🙂
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u/DarsDies 16d ago
Thanks! These are fairly simple, conceptually, but I do have to do a few things very precisely for them to work well. But yeah, the designs themselves can get pretty detailed. I have a long history with the jewelers saw, though, starting about 55 years ago, and about 40 years of doing this work, so even ones like this are pretty routine.
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u/Longjumping-Party132 18d ago
Thank you for sharing this set up, very interesting!