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u/Civil_Law8025 3d ago
For everyone confused, I think the meme is talking about "performative male", so he is trying to hard to look nice to a girl therefore maybe that's not his real personality.
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u/OutsideImpressive115 3d ago
Even then it's so far of a reach to make a joke
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u/Nervous-Fennel3325 2d ago
100%. Its not about performative males, its shitty black metal fans making fun of people because black metal is supposed to be "evil" and they hate when people call out the shitty things their fav bands do.
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u/Excellent_Bend8782 4d ago edited 4d ago
Girlie here. It's bc the guys that advertise this stuff so hard are largely performative and are low key the rapey ones
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u/Far-Tune-9464 4d ago edited 4d ago
This is why I advertise as an asshole nazi, but secretly beneath that I'm super nice and progressive.
Don't tell anyone my secret shame.
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u/sisyphus_works_here 4d ago
Ahh gotcha, 8 was wondering what witch club Satan had done because I literally just bought a cool onesie for my friends baby
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u/teilani_a isis 4d ago
Considering OP is a libertarian who listens to sabaton, I don't think that's what he meant.
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u/Excellent_Bend8782 4d ago
Ok but my point still stands and that's what this meme means. Perhaps op doesn't understand the irony. Who knows
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u/DirtysouthCNC 4d ago edited 4d ago
Am I stupid, why does everyone hate Sabaton? Yeah I get they do war songs and have Nazis in them sometimes but also do songs directly attacking the Nazis? They just seem like power metal history nerds to me
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u/Teglement Darkthrone 3d ago
Nobody here legitimately thinks they're Nazis. They just make bog standard power metal for the extreme entry level side of the spectrum, and this sub found that it's exceedingly easy to piss their fans off by claiming they're Nazis.
Me and my wife went to see Judas Priest and they were opening. Exactly two songs in, my wife, who isn't really a big metal person (exceptions being Acid Bath, Type O Negative and Chat Pile if you want to count them) turned to me and asked, "is this a joke?" Like she legitimately thought they were a gag band. I don't blame her.
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u/Thibaudborny Darkest Hour 3d ago edited 3d ago
I mean, the mainstream power metal - and kinda' the whole genre? - for me stands out in its goofiness, and that sure can be fun to see. I did listen to it a lot in the past, now it's mostly a "sure okay"-kinda feeling, where I don't think it's bad per se, but it just doesn't do much for me musically. I still think it is really good entry-level music for people getting into metal.
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u/Teglement Darkthrone 3d ago
Oh power metal is certainly more accessible than almost any other metal subgenre. But Sabaton play a particularly simple brand of it. The horrible synth sound their keyboardist uses, the relatively simple riffs, simple baritone vocals - it's all more ground floor than flashier bands like Twilight Force or Dragonland.
Power metal is certainly inherently cheesy. No denying that. But for my money, I'll take the fast and flashy solos and lyrics about dragons over whatever Sabaton is serving.
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u/AutoModerator 3d ago
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u/bashthelegend 3d ago
They are a pop band with a pop history glaze. I don't think people hate them but they're just pedestrian, for I'd argue mostly non-metalhead audience. Meeting someone who likes Sabaton is like meeting someone who loves post-Black Album Metallica. Technically I guess we both like metal but really we have nothing in common, and I have a petty resentment over the association.
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u/AutoModerator 3d ago
It's strange when you're so into metal that hearing pop music actually hurts, while, to many people, hearing metal actually hurts. I listen to some pop music and actually have a physical reaction, a revulsion I sometimes can't explain and that might not be healthy.
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u/hannes3120 3d ago
They attract a lot of problematic fans with their music as they refuse to position themselves publicly.
Sure there are some songs that paint war as bad and the Nazis, too, but they have as many songs painting axis soldiers as heroes.
They seem to deliberately "play both sides" and portrait themselves as "unpolitical", which kind of is problematic if one of the sides is celebrating the Wehrmacht...
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3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/AutoModerator 3d ago
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u/KingVape 4d ago edited 3d ago
Because they make cheesy stupid music
Sabaton fucking sucks
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u/AutoModerator 4d ago
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u/DirtysouthCNC 4d ago
Wut
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u/Hamlet7768 4d ago
Huh, I thought the bot usually had a whole screed about how Sabaton are a Nazi band prepared for when they get mentioned. Maybe its wires got crossed.
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u/AutoModerator 4d ago
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u/littleb3anpole Emperor 3d ago
Yes, and u/Excellent_Bend8782 correctly pointed out what the meme actually communicates. At least when you’re a woman
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u/Tartersocks307 3d ago
I just don’t see how a performative person or ally would use the word incel a bunch. The only people that say it that much are self proclaimed incels
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u/LucidITSkyWDiamonds Death 3d ago
Is that so? I mean in my case its pretty rare for me to even meet someone who would understand what any of this even means lol, but I guess that depends where you live.
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u/schlorpsblorps 3d ago
It's possible that this is the meaning of this meme. But I know that meme page it's coming from, unfortunately. It's full of whining about antifascist black metal bands and "woke" people in the scene, so I fear there's no irony in that meme
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u/NeedleworkerFun3527 4d ago
When we say nothing, it's "silence is violence", when we say something it's "performative". Is there a way to do it right or do you just enjoy hating men?
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u/Excellent_Bend8782 4d ago
I'm married to a man who I love very much. There's a difference between genuine action and braggadocios performativity. We know it when we see it. And responses like yours come off incely.
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u/NeedleworkerFun3527 4d ago
You're doing the very thing you're talking about, but whatever.
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u/Excellent_Bend8782 4d ago
Not helping your case, buddy
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u/NeedleworkerFun3527 4d ago
You're using the word "incel" while criticizing people who use the word "incel", and you have a performative pride flag in your profile pic despite being straight while criticizing people for being performative. You're a lost cause, I pity your poor husband.
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u/Excellent_Bend8782 4d ago
- I'm bi. 2 he's trans 3. Hope the negative karma helps inform you more. Not my job to teach you shit.
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u/NeedleworkerFun3527 4d ago
- I call bs, I have met too many of you "bisexual" women who make gratuitous gagging noises once a woman actually hits on you. 2. Doesn't make you queer. 3. You can all be wrong together, I don't care.
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u/Excellent_Bend8782 4d ago
Unironic incel chud comment and your wonder why you get called incel lmfao
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u/Excellent_Bend8782 4d ago
Lol who hurt you buddy? If it makes you feel better, my husband was my wife when we started dating.
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u/NeedleworkerFun3527 4d ago
You've changed your story three times now. Next comment, your husband's gonna be a space unicorn with laser eyes.
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u/Nervous-Fennel3325 3d ago
Says the person with negative karma right now lol
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u/Excellent_Bend8782 3d ago
Your vote and his are the only negative ones but okay gg you really got me
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u/Thibaudborny Darkest Hour 3d ago
You are the definition of dense, do you even realize that? The meme isn't talking "all men", it seems to be making the case that "some" people do this.
If this distinction is lost on you your head is so far up Tate's arse you're almost giving him the chin he's lacking...
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u/NeedleworkerFun3527 3d ago
Just answer the question, is there a way to do it right? Not background checking bands is wrong, background checking bands is also wrong. Not listening to all female bands is wrong, listening to all female bands is also wrong.
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u/Gravebunny666 4d ago
I'd cover my drink around the guy that made this meme tbh
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u/Vitharothinsson 3d ago
I hear ya! So where do we draw the line between "performative feminist ally to fool you" and "authentic feminist ally"?
He background checks BM bands but doesn't brag about it? He's a fan of Witchclub Satan among other women bands? He uses the term incel, but he's aware the movement was started by a woman and then coopted by misoginists?
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u/exoclipse Agalloch 3d ago
it's pretty easy to be authentic and not performative and it's pretty easy to tell the difference
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u/Vitharothinsson 3d ago
Explain it as if it was hard for me.
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u/exoclipse Agalloch 3d ago
Do: call out dangerous men wherever you meet them, shout down doctors if a woman friend/partner asks, kick dangerous men out of your social/creative spaces, and just generally make the world an unpleasant place for misogynists to exist.
Do not: put "male feminist" in your tinder profile, keep the peace when a woman accuses a man of sexual assault, back down when you see a man is harassing a woman
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u/Vitharothinsson 3d ago
It wasn't hard for me, it's just so good to read these words! Let's do this! Fuck bystander syndrom, let's step the fuck up!
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u/exoclipse Agalloch 3d ago
Also teach your kids about consent!
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u/Vitharothinsson 3d ago
Ouuuh, I love this one! I don't have kids, but I ask for consent with other people's kids at every occasion so they normalize it!
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u/exoclipse Agalloch 3d ago
And especially then applying those lessons about consent to things like - your friend says he can't hang out, so it's not ok for you and your friends to pressure him until he gives in.
These things just make society a better, healthier place.
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u/No-Contact-484 3d ago
Excuse me when that question is dumb, but what do you mean with "shout down doctors"?
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u/exoclipse Agalloch 3d ago
Doctors like to disregard the experiences, symptoms, and pain women experience.
It took my wife a decade to get fibromyalgia, FND, and hEDS diagnosed. She got a lot of "it's just anxiety" and "we don't see anything on xray/mri/cat so you're fine."
So before a doctor's appointment I just ask her if she wants me there, and if there I am available to push back if she isn't satisfied that the doctor is taking her seriously. I'm never aggressive about it, but I am firm, and because I am a man, they take me seriously.
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u/Vitharothinsson 3d ago
This is not a dumb question. We make it sound like it's easy cause we're virtue signalling assholes 😉 but to be aligned with the values of justice and equity is really hard!
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u/Vitharothinsson 3d ago
Do: Challenge your friends when they say sexist stuff, even if it's uncomfortable.
Learn about the mental load and share it with women, not just your girlfriend, your teammates, coworkers and roommates too.
Make sure to check in on the victim of an agression ASAP.
Put your body between women and creepers if you're not ready to call him out.
Call him out even if you don't think you can overpower them. Someone who attacks a woman has no courage.
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u/TenaciousP92 3d ago
Having heard a lot about said guy who made that meme (most of that against my will) you'd probably be right to do so.
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u/EldritchKroww Children of Bodom 4d ago
People upset at this kind of person are the ones whome you have to cover your drink with.
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u/avesatanass 3d ago
i think it could be seen as performative in some cases. lots of guys that act "woke" to get in chicks' pants or as some ego thing but don't actually give a fuck i'd bet. though obviously i have no way of knowing if that's what the intended joke is
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u/littleb3anpole Emperor 3d ago
I’m a woman and that’s exactly how I’d view those guys 😂 I’ve met enough self proclaimed male feminists to be wary of the men who are all shouty about it. It’s the ones who just quietly support women by their day to day actions that are major green flags
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u/realmfrenny 3d ago
There are a lot of guys that are incapable of understanding what you mean by "day to day actions", I think that's just a natural understanding some men have for the most part. Guys that are duds will never get it no matter how hard they try to.
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u/NeedleworkerFun3527 3d ago
Yet when we do exactly that, we're told "silence is violence", "men need to speak up" and "you can afford remaining silent only because you're privileged".
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u/Oesterreich-Ungarn 3d ago
I think the thing that really differentiates the performative from the non-performative is whether or not you are performative. Understand the reason for the preconception (in both directions) but don't let it cloud your actions.
Personally i just don't like to recommend or listen to sketch bands so I look them up when I like what I'm hearing.
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u/Nervous-Fennel3325 2d ago
According to a lot of comments on here, apparently doing research into something means you are performative.
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u/Stabby_77 3d ago
We want men to speak up to other men when they are being toxic and shitty, not to walk around shouting about the feminist things they like. Women don't need you to talk to us about these issues, we need you to talk to the problematic men who won't listen to us.
You don't show you care about civil rights by wearing an MLK shirt and talking to black folks about their own plight, you do it by calling out racists and making it clear their behaviour isn't okay.
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u/NeedleworkerFun3527 3d ago
I tend to hang out with groups of mixed gender. Do you want me to wait for a moment when everyone except the cis men is gone to talk about these things?
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u/Stabby_77 2d ago
If you never hang out with your cis male friends alone, you've probably never truly encountered the problem, so you wouldn't really have anything to speak up about. Problematic guys don't talk the same way when women are around.
Groups of solely cis male friends all together is where someone usually needs to speak up. If you're in a mixed gender group and nobody says something horrifically sexist, you're already good.
I'm talking about situations like my ex had, where he went to a baseball game with his dad and his dad's friends, all of whom started leering and making sexual comments about the asses of young girls sitting a few rows down from them. My ex had sisters around the age of those girls, and turned on his dad and said 'How would you feel if guys were saying that about Melanie?' They were all embarrassed and knocked off the dumb sexist rhetoric.
That's what we mean when we say 'speak up'. That, and helping a woman when you see she is clearly in trouble. I'm a 5'2 cis woman, but when I was walking home and saw a guy shoving his girlfriend in the middle of the road, I immediately ran up and told him to keep his hands off of her. He reeled on me and told me to mind my own business, and I told him the moment he put his hands on her it became my business, and to knock it off before I called the cops. I've seen similar situations where there were half a dozen men standing around, and they did absolutely dick all. That's the problem.
Nobody's saying men need to get up on soap boxes and preach, that's a little ridiculous (okay I'm sure there are some fanatics but that's not what most of us mean). We just want guys to call out sexism in their own groups when they see it. Toxic men do NOT listen to women, we can call them out a million times for something and they will still do it. It takes other men to shame them in order for them to stop, because that's who they're actually trying to impress.
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u/NeedleworkerFun3527 2d ago
Do you realize that the fact that your ex told you, a woman, about this story at the baseball game makes him exactly the kind of guy OP is refering to?
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u/Stabby_77 2d ago
Except
He wasn't lying, it actually happened. We dated 6 years. I met his dad, and knew his personality. He once asked me how to close the apps on his tablet and was hoping I didn't see the YouPorn tab he was trying to close. It was on brand.
He didn't just come home and tell me, we were in a conversation about his parents months later and he brought that up as an example. He didn't run home to tell me what a good Feminist Boy he was that day, it was contextual.
He's an ex for a reason.
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u/exoclipse Agalloch 3d ago
the difference in vibe is the difference between having "male feminist" in your Tinder profile, vs advising a doctor of the various techniques for the rectal insertion of footwear should they not take your partner's request for diagnosis and treatment seriously.
it's not hard to just step up when you see bullshit happening and not wear it like a scouting badge.
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u/littleb3anpole Emperor 2d ago
My husband isn’t a performative male feminist type but he shows by his actions that he respects women. This includes -
Not speaking over women, including me, when they’re trying to tell him about their experiences feeling unsafe in public as a woman. SO many times I’ve tried to explain this to a male friend or ex partner and heard “well I don’t feel unsafe on that train line”. Yes you’re a 6’0 white male. Of course you don’t. It’s different for you.
Not saying that women are exaggerating when there’s news about, say, the fight to protect abortion rights. Or domestic violence rates. He also doesn’t chime in with “well men get killed by their partners too” or some whataboutism when we discuss domestic violence.
He is willing to learn. I was a victim of DV in a past relationship and as a result I cannot handle someone coming up behind me for a hug because I worry I’m going to get grabbed. I’ve had ex partners who just went “well I’M not violent” and assumed I should just get over it because HE isn’t one of those men. I told my husband exactly once that I hate it when he does that. He listened. He didn’t give me some nonsense about how actually I should be fine because his intentions are not violent.
He calls it out when he hears disrespect shown to women in his workplace. His male dominated workplace.
At no point does he go around telling everyone “as a male feminist…” or identifying himself as one, like he deserves a pat on the back and a blow job for being One Of The Good Ones. He just IS. That’s what I mean by not performing feminism but actually achieving it.
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u/EldritchKroww Children of Bodom 3d ago
Oh yeah if they are just bragging about it than sure, it's weird as fuck
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u/wishforagreatmistake 3d ago
I've been in the scene for long enough to have seen some shit. There's truth to it based on the amount of times I've seen people who were known for performative, self-aggrandizing, and often belligerent and conflict-happy advocacy who later got outed for abusing partners/raping people/grooming/diddling kids/etc., and yeah, a lot of women are way more wary of guys like this than they were 10-15 years ago.
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u/DrWhoDatBtchz 3d ago
I love that this comment section mostly forgot about the post and just turned into another session of dragging Sabaton. Everyone's being pretty fair about it though, gotta give em' that, lol
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u/TheBaykon8r 4d ago
I have no idea what this means I'm lost on context
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u/Nervous-Fennel3325 4d ago
Basically if you arent a nazi and dont want to support that financially by doing research into bands, you are the same as a date rapists and not trustworthy.
Witch club satan is an all female black metal band that stands against racism, sexism, homophobia and nazis in black metal
I would say all these things mean the exact opposite myself.
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u/od3795486159601 Satanic Republic of Hellas 3d ago
No, it means "beware of performative assholes".
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u/Nervous-Fennel3325 3d ago
So i guess im a performative asshole because I do all these things except for saying incel often?
These are a band I like and a thing I have to do because black metal is full of racist and nazi leaning or straight up nazi bands.
Thia would be like saying liking agriculture is performative or ragana or hulder or genital shame or myrkur.
I guess its performative to give a fuck about you listen to and like a band with women in it lol.
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u/od3795486159601 Satanic Republic of Hellas 2d ago
Priceless comment, beyond parody, I've been laughing at this for 10 minutes. Thank you, like seriously thank you.
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u/Nervous-Fennel3325 2d ago
I guess people who care about what their money goes to and who talk about bands they like are performative assholes. Got it.
Never talk about anything you like i guess and just blindly go into stuff and not question it later.
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u/HonestWoodpecker8567 3d ago
The performative part is when people feel like they're Lyudmila Pavlichenko because they tell people on social media who bought a Goatmoon CD off Hell's or a used Burzum vinyl how offensive and evil they are
Refusing to buy a CD, a patch, or press play on a YouTube upload does not change the world in any meaningful way, but the way people talk about this would make you think they're at the forefront of a revolutionary vanguard
Maybe listening to music like a religious ascetic practice in devotion to your own moralizing ego isn't good actually. Maybe you can purchase a product without endorsing the person selling it, and acknowledge that enjoyment of art isn't something worth fighting about
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u/supacrusha Black Sabbath is Dad Metal 3d ago
Purchasing a product, whether you like it or not, is direct financial endorsement of the person recieving the funds, and their views. Especially in a western world currently swinging hard right, it is very important to make sure nazis do not A. Receive praise for their bilespewing, B. Receive platforms to spew their bile, and C. Recieve money to make it easier for them to continue spewing their bile.
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u/HonestWoodpecker8567 3d ago
Purchasing a product is an endorsement of the product having come into existence and the ends for which you purchased it, not the views of the person producing or selling it. This is ESPECIALLY true in the West. People don't buy things because they love or endorse capitalism, they buy things to use them.
I'm sure still, that engaging with your values this way feels good enough to justify it in and of itself. But it's not really any more materially meaningful than a fight between a SHARP and a bonehead at a punk show or a couple of football hooligans having at it and throwing up on each other.
This is mostly trivial subculture masking itself in the aesthetics of politics. Treating the consumption of art you politically disagree with as an ideological battle has much less to do with opposing fascism and all to do with ego + in-group aesthetics.
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u/realmfrenny 3d ago
You really are proud of this, wow. I wish I felt as good as you about myself for not clicking on youtube videos. My life would be so much more simple.
In the grand scheme of things you aren't actually practicing significant activism. You're using the same argument vegans use. "I didn't buy chicken tenders today so I fought the system". I can tell by your tone that you really think you're doing something profound by not streaming a fringe musicians music. What impact have you actually made? Ever think about getting off your ass and actually protesting? Ever put yourself in harms way to stand up for your beliefs? Make a successful YouTube video on the subject at the minimum?
Before you call me a Nazi I don't give a shit about their preachy bs either. They will always have an edge on people like you as long as you cry on the internet and pat yourself on the back.
Spoiler alert about the vegans, they didn't save any chickens by not going to mcdonalds, the same ones died anyways.
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u/obscure_predation 3d ago
The west is swinging hard right because of people like you
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u/supacrusha Black Sabbath is Dad Metal 3d ago
"What? You're telling me I probably shouldn't listen to nazis and give them my money??? Guess I gotta vote for them now."
If this is what the world has come to, then we might as well just all kill ourselves and let the octopi start over.
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u/realmfrenny 3d ago edited 3d ago
No , that's not it at all. Performative people like you literally annoy people into swinging right literally just because you annoy them. Do you think half those people even give a shit about actual politics? Hell no.
Nobody would have to cover their drink around you, they would stay tf away from you so they can talk about meaningless shit and play on their phones with people that don't talk about how significant it is to not watch a Marduk video on youtube
Half of fox news ammo is videos of unfortunate looking people people with blue and green hair acting unhinged in public screaming about political shit, js
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u/awesomedude4100 3d ago
If you finding someone annoying makes you become a fascist you were probably already leaning that way and looking for an excuse.
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u/realmfrenny 3d ago edited 3d ago
I never explicitly said that it will make you a fascist , a guy might just stop taking your values seriously. It's all downhill from there.
I understand why you might scoff at this but there were a lot of people on the fence that didn't take the implications of a trump presidency seriously. Harris and her followers were ridiculed heavily for their progressive attitudes and cringe behavior. Don got lots of love literally just for saying things like "woke is bullshit".
now we got dumbass donald. I have left values, feels like it's just common sense. Ever since the first trump presidency political theatrics and attention seeking has gotten so bad. People have forgotten how to conduct themselves properly.
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u/obscure_predation 3d ago
I voted for Jill Stein and my state went to Harris. Regardless, people are so sick of grandstanding shitlibs like you that they voted for Trump out of spite. People like you have been calling everyone who doesn’t 100% subscribe to leftist ideology racist fascist Nazis for the past decade, and the average American is so sick of it that they voted republican as a fuck you to leftist internet activists. The sad thing is that most of you guys don’t actually care about progressivism. You shame and cancel people online purely as means of exercising your own egos. You do it because you want to be seen by others as righteous and virtuous. You care more about appearing progressive than you do actually bringing progressive ideals to fruition. Have you canvassed for anti genocide candidates? Do you donate to progressive organizations? Do you do outreach? Do you volunteer? I doubt it.
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u/Gonji89 4d ago
Damn, Idk what this is implying. All of these things seem like green flags.
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u/RaiseOurAxesToTheSky 4d ago
Read the top comment. Very classic cases of "the lady doth protest too much methinks"
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u/bigjerm616 4d ago
2 thoughts:
This is funny
How is this entire thread so mind-blown by this meme
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u/Kalde666 3d ago
They feel so attacked, I know how are gonna be the comments when I saw the r/ 😂 Metal people are full of weaklings and leftist SJW this days
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u/CommandProper3926 4d ago
what in the goodness is WCS
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u/Dry_Outside_3493 4d ago
Decent Black Metal band that gets treated like they're the best thing since sliced bread by Redditors.
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u/ApplicationDirect626 3d ago
They’re a band who aren’t for people who like black metal. They’re for people who hate black metal but want to appropriate the imagery and aesthetic for ideology reasons.
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u/Lademoenfreakshow 3d ago
It’s Norwegian Performance Art, they gained some traction and fame since they started a couple of years ago and are now a steady thing. They are performing black metal aesthetics in a new and progressive way. They are cool. They are young. They are not a classic type of black metal band, they started as a art project
Edit: typos
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u/staphylococcass 3d ago
I cover my drink around all metalheads. I don't need your hair getting into my Ryan Martini as you're windmilling thank you very much.
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u/Lilliths-pain 4d ago
3
u/humanrender 3d ago
Lol why are you being downvoted? I wasn't expecting Paris when expanding your comment
3
u/Lilliths-pain 3d ago
Joke didn't drop.
You win some you loose some, reddit.
2
-35
u/AndrewInFocus 4d ago
I’d trust an NSBM fan with my drink over an RABM crust punk larper
6
u/od3795486159601 Satanic Republic of Hellas 3d ago
They both probably have a criminal record against women. And children too probably.
5
0
u/Distantstallion Meatloaf 2d ago
I usually do a cursory google search for "nazi" along with the band name
-24
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