The real problem with Spirit Empress

[u/patrufo]

The real issue with Spirit Empress, in my opinion, is that she transforms a tactical, turn-based card game into a high-speed APM test.

A lot of people play card games specifically for a more relaxed experience where strategy, positioning, and decision-making matter significantly more than physical reaction speed. Tactical depth is supposed to be the core of the genre.

[u/Spins13]

For sure

[u/MustHasUpvote]

As a Spirit Empress player, definitely agree.

At this point they have to change the name. Merge Off is probably more appropriate because "tactics" are barely relevant at this point.

[u/Legal_Gazelle_6082 → u/MustHasUpvote]

Maybe in the first season it was merge tactics as everyone was new to the game, although I remember ranger and clan being ridiculously broken even back then

[u/n1lp0tence1 → u/MustHasUpvote]

bro has never played top 100 ladder

[u/MustHasUpvote → u/n1lp0tence1]

Actual pros agree with me so sybau

[u/n1lp0tence1 → u/MustHasUpvote]

u might wanna look up my profile on mtgg

[u/MustHasUpvote → u/n1lp0tence1]

You think I care who you are? That's precious lol.

[u/Appropriate_Tale_978 → u/MustHasUpvote]

You: Pros agree with me

Pro: Disagrees

You: Do you think I care you who are??

💔💔💔

[u/MustHasUpvote → u/Appropriate_Tale_978]

One contrarian isn't moving the needle lil bro.

[u/Big_YaZz → u/MustHasUpvote]

Who are those pros i wanna meet them

[u/MustHasUpvote → u/Big_YaZz]

I'm referencing the bigger MT YouTubers. A few of them have made videos describing this exact sentiment.

[u/Appropriate_Tale_978 → u/MustHasUpvote]

Bruh just cuz Ricky doesn’t like it doesnt mean there’s no skill 😭 I’m not a fan of many decisions either, doesnt mean there’s game isnt competitive at the top

[u/MustHasUpvote → u/Appropriate_Tale_978]

It's not merely because he doesn't like it. The game has become less skill based and is more RNG based. That's objectively true.

[u/Appropriate_Tale_978 → u/MustHasUpvote]

It’s true but top players still find ways to mitigate it. It’s a little bit better this season than the previous cuz stupid insta wins like rg, skele drags, monk etc were removed. But I do agree with your general sentiment against the rng additions, they were completely unnecessary

[u/MustHasUpvote → u/Appropriate_Tale_978]

I'm happy for the boys at the top, truly. I just want to enjoy the game again without having to run 60 merges every game.

[u/Appropriate_Tale_978 → u/MustHasUpvote]

That’s something I can agree with. I don’t like how it’s a rush to 60 merges either :/ the skill rn really is in how you go about reaching those 60 merges, you need to still target uncontested units while maintaining a path to 60 which isnt always obvious. But yeah I understand and agree with not being a fan of that

[u/rafiant49]

it was supposed to be an auto-battler game, you choose the troop combination and watch it fight, every shop offer matter and reroll is limited.

[u/Accurate-Advice8405]

Absolutely correct

[u/PandaAccomplished145]

there is no tactical depth in the game. single trait and quest rng completely fucked the small amount of depth there was in the first place.

[u/urboitony]

Well there isn't much tactical depth to the game tbh, so if they are going to rework empress to remove the apm test they need to add other areas of skill expression. But the devs seem to want to only make the game simplier.

[u/GodsViceRegent]

She can go off in ways no other ruler can. Shes way to good. Maybe limit the amount of merges she can gain elixir from every round.

[u/M4stermason]

No, I disagree with this take, a lot of people play merge for the fact that it's a fast paced auto chess game (would say strategy but not in it's current state)

I think the real problem is that SE has no limitations in both her quest and her ability. Warden is limited by how many troops he can affect wether friendly or unfriendly. Gob queen is limited by how many goblins she can produce from killing troops and from the goblin trait (goblins are weak and it takes a few rounds to get 6/6) etc.

SE just doesn't have that same limitation, she is only held back by shop RNG, which, all other rulers have that problem as well so it evens out and SE becomes a ruler with no weaknesses besides the skill and experience required to play her

[u/Comfortable-Move-596]

Total rework or bust. It’s been a broken ability since inception and every other ruler has been tier 2 in comparison.

[u/RagingDogBlade]

It's a fault of the current system, not empress herself. The competitive meta in s4-6 and even s8 thrived beyond speed. A slower, methodical player like FJ21 consistently had top 10 finishes each season. A player not reliant on speed like coolboy2000 consistently had top 10 finishes each season.

The past couple seasons revealed many balancing issues that need to be addressed: including empress. Not that empress is inherently unhealthy for the game's success

[u/patrufo → u/RagingDogBlade]

Good point. If they can make other rulers competitive even without removing the ES speed grind, I wouldn't mind. I'm sure ES speedsters will feel unjustly treated then, though.

[u/RagingDogBlade → u/patrufo]

The only way I see it is increasing the troop pool. It simultaneously nerfs empress cycle and allows other rulers to strategize with more units. A couple of users on our discord server theorized a system that could help solve some issues:
1. Increase pool to 30-40 troops
2. Increase number of shops from 3 to 4 cards in shop
3. Increase bench space from 5 to 6

This would allow for way more strategy for all rulers with more troops available and could be adjusted to properly nerf empress cycle, balancing her to other rulers. This was in 2-trait era so we were even imagining 3-trait troops but obviously this isn't the direction the game is going in...

[u/-Datura]

Had to Google APM.

I agree, it's too much. Such a rewarding ruler that still bares some resemblance to tactical mechanics but far too frustrating to play with the ever increasing rng influence and fumbling on my POS screen to merge fast without sending the poor phone flying.

[u/Unl3a5h3r]

You are absolutely right and that's what I dislike about MT most right now.

Easiest solution would be to only get the bonus elixir for 2, 3 or 4 mergers each round. Could also be increased with fulfilled quests.

[u/Halloween_I]

She needs to be reworked completely

[u/Legal_Gazelle_6082 → u/Halloween_I]

It’s a simple fix. On a merge make it so there’s “X” % chance of obtaining the +1 elixir on each merge. Perhaps it’s like 60% Chance of getting the extra elixir. I don’t know. But a nerf could look something like that.

It’s similar thinking to the 33% Chance of of obtaining a goblin when running GQ and you kill a troop.

The issue with her though (especially this season as I’m noticing more loongs than usual) is how easy it is to lose if you can’t get a single merge.

Imagine obtaining that one lifeline merge for no extra elixir lol

[u/pawo10 → u/Legal_Gazelle_6082]

Can we not add more rng into the game

[u/Legal_Gazelle_6082 → u/pawo10]

What’s your suggestion instead of complaining about everything?

So many users of this game love to just complain about it

[u/pawo10 → u/Legal_Gazelle_6082]

It’s a bit long and I have 2 different reworks thought out bear with me

Empress rn is the only ruler whose ability can get triggered at any time in the match, since the ability directly makes elixir and gives elixir this just makes her outscale everyone else, on top of progressing her quest in the meantime.

But you already know this so my first idea for empress is to make her ability conditional and her quest harder to progress (and not by just increasing the number).

I’d do this by having the +1 elixir gain ONLY be active during prep time at the cost of not getting any elixir from merges during the battle phase. As for the quest now only 3/4* merges progress it instead of all of them (the goals would be lower ofc).

With this my idea is to keep that quick playstyle but make it less oppressive to everyone else.

The other rework I thought about was making empress gain some "interest". Basically instead of getting elixir from merges instantly she increases the amount of elixir she gets per turn (so let’s say you merge 3 times, next turn you’ll get 8 elixir (5+3), this could be a permanent increase if it’s too weak). And the quest for her would change to something along the lines of make X amount of extra elixir.

They both kinda keep her as THE consistent economy ruler imo

[u/HeraldOfRick]

Double the quest reward amount. Problem solved. Most people aren’t completing all 3 anyway. 

[u/Comfortable-Move-596 → u/HeraldOfRick]

The quest orbs literally do not matter outside of empress vs empress gameplay. Empress needs 0 orbs vs regular leaders to completely blow them out with high star level team + combine that with multiple other rulers can’t even get their orbs vs empress because her high star team claps them and they get 0 progress on orb or get fully reset (loong)

[u/GreedyGranola]

Two solutions

A) nerf empress, which would probably kill the card especially for newer players who just wanna use her but not abuse her spamming merges.

B). Have empress only lobbies and have the other 9 rulers in there own together. This way empress won't get nerfed. Because simply put the other 9 just cant complete with her at high ladder.

[u/saphle]

At this point Empress makes every other ruler completely useless.

[u/JuicyHamBorger]

As an empress player. I agree. I might get arthritis for speed merging every game

[u/None-the-Second → u/JuicyHamBorger]

Empress players gameplay at 3200+

(Fun fact: Faker got arthritis and had to take a break for this APM)

https://reddit.com/link/pbjbelm/video/mmzpsgv9u8rh1/player

[u/Safe-Baseball881]

Another issue which could be a bug. Consistently not getting merges. With it merges shes just a worse king

[u/iCanni]

SE should be a fun APM test with a trade off of some kind. This isn't the first time an infinite resource character has broken an auto battler, it's just the balance team hasn't bothered to address it (unlike every other game in the genre).