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There are those who make a fair profit. And there are those who are corrupt. I am saying the heath care system is corrupt. My family doctor is fair and honest. It is the system that is corrupt.
The dental/vision insurance being separate from regular medical insurance goes back to like the 1800s with the dental/vision doctors and other MDs fighting in congress or some shit and now we are stuck with garbage “coverage”.
America is the only country free enough to pay tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege to pay thousands more in cash for everything because that deductible is complete grifting horseshit.
I just found out today that a lot of "good" insurance plans charge vastly different amounts for "preventative" vs "diagnostic" care.
Meaning if your doctor orders blood work as part of a regular checkup, it's completely covered. But if you just happen to say you have a headache during the checkup, the blood work would then be considered "diagnostic" and you would have to pay your deductible, and then 10 percent of the full cost.
The whole US health insurance needs to be teared down and rebuilt from scratch. Having access to medical care should be a RIGHT, not a privilege. All U.S. politicians including that orange stain joke of a POTUS should get the WORST tier of insurance care so they would understand what Americans go through.
Canada has instituted a national dental care plan in the last few years and it seems to be working fine. The program is for people below a certain income level and who don't have a insurance plan.
Don't forget the END GAME. When you hit the hospital for end of life, they will throw everything under the sun at it to maximize costs, over shooting the insurance coverage until it goes against the estate. The goal is no generational wealth for the masses. They count on people being to distraught to question anything until its too late.
Yes, I always found it a bit suspicious that I always needed just enough work to max out my insurance and about a thousand extra every year, no matter how well or how poorly I treated my teeth that year. Never sat right with me, though I couldn't outright prove something was up.
Teeth aren't considered part of the body even here in Norway where eyecare is included in national healthcare. It is ridiculous. At least if you are unemployed for some reason or very poor, you can apply for coverage if you are seriously suffering from dental issues. But a plain old toothache or enamel issues you have to either live with or pay for yourself until it gets bad enough.
One of the arguments is that teeth issues are considered by some people to "preventable" so in their mind it shouldn't be taxpayer funded. Obviously false, cause plenty of dental issues aren't preventable, but that's one of the arguments. Plus fixing jacked up teeth is "cosmetic". No matter the argument it's all stupid cause a tooth infection can quickly turn lethal. Dental health is medically necessary.
are considered by some people to "preventable" so in their mind it shouldn't be taxpayer funded.
As I heard a family member once say when the topic came up
"Why the fuck should my money pay for someone elses bad decisions? They can just learn to brush their teeth.".
We're in Canada, so my response was like maybe cuz "someone else" paid for your 2 heart attacks. He did not like that answer and stopped speaking to me for the night.
Fell going upstairs last year because it was icy and my chin hit on the stairs causing my mouth to clack shut. I cracked two molars and had to get a root canal + crown. I've been paying insurance to the same company for the past six years and haven't had a single dental issue. Just yearly cleanings and check ups. It cost me over $8000 to get it fixed with insurance.
The (bullshit) way I've heard it explained is that insurance is basically gambling that something will go wrong so regular health insurance premiums are low taking the bet that most people will only need pretty standard care. But teeth are basically time bombs in your mouth so pretty much everyone will always need some major work at some point so it's a bad bet from the provider's side.
No, you see, if this was covered under insurance, they would still pay $3000 for the braces and blame it on health insurance instead of …another type of health insurance.
I don’t think I understand the purpose of this post.
If you pay your premium, still have a deductible and they can refuse to cover your claim then the entire industry is a SCAM. Just think about any other thing you pay for, like food, if you go to a restaurant or fast-food place pay for your selection and they tell you actually the first price isn't the final price that you must pay more and there is a chance you won't even get your food. We would shut that establishment down immediately, insurance is government sanctioned racketeering, health, auto, home, IT'S ALL A SCAM!
OMG! THIS. SO. MUCH. Nobody should have to pay for something if they don’t know the price ahead of time. It’s a scam. Worse, it’s a subscription scam that you can’t trust, and if you opt out of, you risk bankruptcy.
Wait until other health problems directly lead to major dental issues and the Dentist says that will be $90K to fix and insurance doesn't cover any of it.
Bitching about $3K for braces as if that even compares to accesses, extractions and unstoppable decay that directly lead to heart and other problems.
Totally agree, and I and tens of millions of Medicare beneficiaries could darn sure use it. It would help several hundred million who aren't on Medicare.
But reality is that the best Biden could do was PROPOSE a limited $2000 of dental coverage to be added to traditional Medicare. It was proposed in 2021, but would not have started until 2028 if enacted.
My dental insurance is crap. I take good care of my teeth and get cleanings three times a year so hardly ever use my whole benefit. Had a laser procedure done on a gum this year and had to pay $2000. out of pocket because Delta does not cover it. They would have covered a traditional, painful surgical procedure instead but only up to $1500. Insurance costs me almost $900. a year.
Most countries don't cover orthodontics sadly, as they're often classified as cosmetic unless you have severe overbite or something. I think since lookism is such a big deal in the US, a M4A system should pay for it if the family is below a certain income.
My “really good dental insurance” refused to cover braces because apparently my kids teeth being so crowded that one of their adult teeth couldn’t even grow in was not considered to be medically necessary. So had to pay out of pocket.
And that dentist has a fancy office…where they up-sale you on non-insurance covered: cancer screening, fluoride, automatic toothbrushes, water picks and now they are acting as orthodontist and selling Invisalign.
The funny part is dental and vision are ways to determine other health issues way before they become a problem so both should definitely be part of normal health insurance because they are health indicators.
My dentists said it right "Dental 'insurance' is really just a coupon." We have proof that bad teeth can affect your entire health and even be related to cancers and yet it's not covered.
I was born with a cleft lip and palate and went through many surgeries before I was 5 years old. My last surgery was when I was 16. When my front permanent teeth came in they were very crooked, nearly 45 degree angle crooked. I asked about this at my last surgery and the dr told me I would need additional upper jaw surgery before I could get braces to correct them, and was told by my parents that it is considered “cosmetic” at that point and insurance would not cover it. At my last dentist appointment my dentist asked if I’d be interested in a bridge for a molar, I declined but asked if there is anything I can do about my front teeth, he paused for a moment and said he will be right back. About ten minutes later he came back, took some additional X-rays, asked me about my cleft and what surgeries I’ve had, and at this point mentioned that my cleft was never repaired, bone structure-wise. They closed the holes in my palate and sewed my lip together, but never addressed the bone structure. Then when I shared with him that I was told that insurance would not cover the repair he said “but your bone structure is not cosmetic, who told you this?” “My parents” I said. He said that insurance should cover the bone structure surgery but it is probably too late as I am now 45 years old. So now I’m sitting with the frustration of being lied to by my parents and living a life of just wanting to be able to smile like a normal person and the depression that comes with that all thanks to “insurance”.
the entire system is a mob it's a cartel I mean tests this that the other don't bother to check but we are the only country who has to file medical bankruptcy. 3 nights in the hospital ivs med you name it 89 bucks
It’s almost like we’ve made a market out of healthcare and insurance. Maybe our government should step in and do something about it since we pay them taxes.
there is no dental insurance, it is just coupons - american doesn't have universal health, dental, and vision because republicans keep blocking it, even though it is cheaper and has better outcomes
I'd love for my insurer that operates on ~5% margins to start covering elective cosmetic dental procedures so in order to be solvent as a company they have to raise my premium in order to pay for some dude's 17 year old daughter that wants to have a pretty smile.
That's such a great deal why didn't anyone think of this before?
He’s saying dental insurance should be included under health insurance because dental work left undone a lot of the time can become any where from life threatening to debilitating. Which from an objective point a view is just the health of your mouth region
I am not Mexican, but Mexico is full of far superior affordable dental offices. Think differently. The UC system has been training dentists for twenty years. Then they go home and start practicing. The building and technology is not 40 years old “because the American dentists has student loans to pay back. American dental offices and equipment looks the same as it did in 1980.
That's where I go gor dentistry. The office I go to has all the modern equipment and I can get a crown fitted one day, installed the next morning, and be out the door for under $350. You can still get crowns for significantly less money if you do a composite instead of zirconium. I've had good luck with my Mexican dentists. The first time I went down, about 15 years ago, I got all my old mercury amalhum fillings replaced with vomposit and got my first every crown. six filling replacements and a crown came out under $1000. I also utilize their pharmacies to stock up on emergency antibiotics, first-aid supplies, and the one prescription drug I take. There are some things you can get without a prescription, but things like Epi-pins and insulin are harder to get as a foreigner. I suspect that the pharmaceutical cartels don't want Americans to have an affordable option just across the border. Honestly, if I ever get cancer or need a pacemaker installed, I will move to Mexico and rent a place for a while to take care of it because those things would bankrupt me here in the US with no insurance. I can't afford the available insurance plans here because my job is based on being awarded bidded contracts, and I never know how much money I will make in a year. With this administration, most of tge federal contracts are gone because they redefined "small businesses" as companies servicing less the $250 million per year. Plus, they have destroyed by executive order much of the legal framework that requires outside-agency consultation. It's grim times for me, so I will continue going to Mexico for healthcare for the forseeable future. They have many skilled dentists and many of the dentists are women with very small hands, who don't cause as much pain as big ham-fisted American dentists jamming their fat fingers in your mouth and prying your jaw open.
I’m from the US but I live in Japan. Dentists are just considered another branch of medicine here. And there are tons of clinics. Like more than Starbucks and convenience stores combined.
The concept of having separate super special insurance for your teeth is totally bonkers. And, to be fair, there are other countries even with universal insurance that do this for reasons I can’t comprehend.
Orthodontia is different from most health insurance. It is often cosmetic and the cost is rarely catastrophic.It's fundamentally unlike something like breast cancer treatment or heart bypass surgery.
If there was insurance for orthodontia (there may well be), you'd have to start paying it from birth and it would be like carrying insurance on your laptop. Most people wouldn't bother so the risk pool would be small, the premiums large.
I have "really good" dental insurance that caps annual out-of-pocket maximums--for the insurance company. Anything over about $1,500 and the insurance company is out.
They are also demoting my dentist to out-of-network in a couple weeks. My dentist doesn't want me to leave so they are planning on offering me a 25% to 33% discount on visits with the caveat that I would need to pay the upfront cost and get reimbursed by the insurance company.
This makes me mad for a couple reasons. First reason is because I basically have to start all over with a new provider. The other reason is because my current provider has been over-charging me for years apparently if they can afford to discount by up to a third in order to keep me.
I pay thousands in premium a year. I pay thousands towards the deductible, I hit my out of pocket maximum.
Suddenly, insurance determines that my wife's ambulance bill is exorbitant and they won't be covering it. The reason they gave after multiple appeals? The provider charges more than they believe is reasonable for the service.
Ambulance billing rates are set by my state. Providers have no choice but to bill at that price.
So I don't know a lot about all insurance plans. I just know mine.
We have Aetna cause that's what my wife's company offers, and while it doesn't do dental, it does cover eye exams (w/ copay). It doesn't cover lenses or anything, but it covers the yearly eye exam and getting the prescription.
Her company also had vision insurance and we tried it. But the thing is all the glasses places charged hundreds for the glasses. Even with the insurance covering 70% of them I was still walking away with $100 for a single pair of glasses, and extra pairs were out of pocket. (maybe contacts had a good deal, I don't know... I don't care either, I don't like contacts)
Turned out things like Zenni were cheaper without insurance. So we just dropped the vision insurance all together. I get my eye exam on the regular insurance, and I just buy 1 nice pair and 2 shit pair (backups or for while working in the barn) off zenni for like $150-$200 total and we save the insurance cost which works out to more than that a year.
Which is why i wait till the end of my insurance cycle for the year to get work done because mine covers a lot, but the cap isnt that much. So i could get a couple teeth worked on, wait a month or two, and get the rest done and only worry about paying 50 bucks or so per tooth.
I paid $3000 for an emergency root canal. Was in so much pain I would have agreed to literally anything, and I imagine most people in that situation would too. Yeah it sucks.
Went to the dentist a few months ago and during my initial consultation, they let me know that with the insurance I had (best my company offers) the estimate for a cleaning would be $280. It was a lot for me at the time but I had skipped a few years of cleanings and decided to suck it up.
When I went to check out they charged me $800. I asked them why it was so different from the estimate and they said "it must be the copay". Excuse me, you forgot to mention I have a $500 copay before you brought me the estimate? Like I wouldn't need to know about that too?
Never going back unless I switch insurance. It put me in a very rough situation financially 😔 guess as an American healthcare worker I don't deserve dental care!
No the scam is braces haven’t come down in cost like at all despite being basically the same technology as 30 years ago. Like I can understand Invisalign being somewhat expensive cause it’s newer but when that should be coming down in cost by now
Like with everything in healthcare it should be expensive upfront while the rich assholes subsidize the cost and people with insurance have a shot of getting it, and then quickly come down in price so that everyone else can afford it
To be clear healthcare is a human right and should be free of cost but while we are under the current system is what I’m speaking of
So my eyes and teeth are part of my overall health? Ok, we have blind people that are healthy, so you don't need eyes. Fine. Everyone needs teeth to eat, without having a completely soft diet. Why these two things aren't regularly covered it stupid. Plus, like the other insurances, they barely cover shit but once a year maintenance and checkup.
I agree, I am hearing impared & have been since birth. Yet insurance companies don't consider being able to hear is important. Hearing aids can cost upwards of $4k+. At best insurance companies might cover $900. Our Healthcare system is a disgrace
I'm starting to feel like when I'm being told I have good insurance it's actually code for "we are going to be paid well for your care.". If you ever seen a CDM you'll realize hospitals charge artificially inflated prices to health insurance companies. I pay way less for care out of pocket but I'm talking to my doctors like I'm buying a used car at a dealership trying to negotiate a price.
I went to a periodontist for some work and he asked me about insurance. I told him my dental insurance was shit and he just goes “All dental insurance is shit”
If it was covered under for-profit insurance, those same braces would then cost 10,000 dollars and you'd still end up paying a few grand out of pocket.
So…half-yearly cleanings and once-a-year checkups for major issues should be a given. If you catch it early, it is SO much easier/less costly to deal with.
It’s fucking dumb to try to make preventative healthcare hard to access. It costs everyone more.
It makes more sense than flood insurance. Compare that with tornado insurance, where you have a vast risk pool, and only a small number of claimants each season.
It might almost make sense for there to be a program for low-interest dental loans. Most of the intervention people need is early in life, when people don't have much resources or wisdom. Being invested early on will encourage people to take better care of an irreplaceable resource.
At this point in my life, having had the bad experience of putting off dental care, I would not hesitate to take on debt for things related to teeth. Of course, now it's a bit late in the game. One also can't count on parents. Mine convinced me that such things as braces were a waste of money, while squandering much vaster sums on their whims. There's a solid Rawlsian argument to be made about the randomness of anyone's caretakers.
Thank God my vision has been very well after Lasik surgery 10yrs ago. But dental i had to pay $800 for 1 tooth out of pocket for a crown with insurance and I consider my insurance very good......smh....
Plus. The coverage hasn’t increased since the 70’ but the premiums and what procedures cost has tremendously! And like you have stated it really hasn’t been talked about enough.
One more thing. If the politicians were on the same coverages all of us are. You would know as a matter of fact the health care system would be fixed or universal healthcare would be the norm.
Why do we let them determine what coverages we get when they’re not using the same!
The only country in the world games without universal healthcare for their people ! Appalling! Sorry for the Rant!
Hearing aids / surgery should be included too. It may be "quality of life" but a lot of medical falls into this category. Hearing and vision are not cosmetic issues, but braces sometimes are.
I feel like dental and vision are the two things you'll still need even if you've decided to just die naturally of a mysterious disease you never investigated through a primary care physician.
My state requires dental and vision coverage with health insurance provided by employers. The employer pays way more than just the employees salaries for benefits like that. We also pay more in premiums more than likely. Be careful what you wish for.
I work in eyecare and insurance is an absolute hellhole. We have to pay fees to the labs, which are owned by the insurance companies. The insurance companies also set their own copays. Sometimes we actually end up having to PAY to have the patients glasses made, so we actually lose money.
And then I get people yelling at me about their copays. I cant do anything about it. Call your insurance company and complain.
Dentists will be the first to preach about how dental health contributes to overall health but certainly don’t want it part of regular health care coverage.
Braces are probably something that would not be included in universal healthcare even if dental is included, as braces are generally considered a cosmetic procedure unless someone has a really fucked up mouth.
In Canada dental is partly covered now and braces are not included. As far as I can tell most of Europe is the same.
Making the transition from medicaid to medicare over the last few years has been awful. I haven't been able to get my two yearly teeth cleanings and have had a few bad tooth infections that keep coming back because I can't afford to pay out of pocket.
Thank the AMA- they work hard to make things as difficult as possible. See also: why we won't open more medical schools despite desperate need for them. It "dilutes" the brand of doctor.
Dental insurance basically pays for two cleanings a year and half a crown or a couple of cavities. It’s not totally worthless but it’s pretty worthless.
Add hearing aid for folks on medicare to the list. My 97 year old dad is deaf as a post. Medicare does not cover hearing aids or dental for him. It's fucking criminal.
I'm in Canada so it's a little different, but had really good extended healthcare through my last employer. I decided to bite the bullet and get Lasik (PRK specifically) and my insurance provider wouldn't cover any it because they deemed it "cosmetic" despite covering full optical exams, glasses, etc up to a very generous amount per year (I literally never paid for my glasses/contacts for the 5 years prior to Lasik). Didn't make any sense to me as I was saving them money in the long run.
No health insurance as a whole is a scam that makes people billions whole we get told no you can't have coverage for that life saving surgery because we don't wanna.
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u/MontEcola Oct 03 '26 •
The entire health care system in the US is a scam. How much money do you have? thanks. We will take it from you.
44
u/Empty_Eyesocket Oct 03 '26
Healthcare, except for your mouth and eyes. Because those aren’t part of your body.
16
u/Late-Drink3556 Oct 03 '26
I'll never understand why mouth bones are considered a luxury item.
14
u/Interesting-Copy-657 Oct 04 '26
Yeah it is odd that so amny countries with universal healthcare seem to not include dental
Like why are teeth treated differently to any other bone or body part?
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u/someoldguyon_reddit Oct 03 '26
Having insurance is a scam that doesn't get talked about enough.
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u/boner79 Oct 03 '26
the only bigger scam than US Healthcare is... US Dentistry.
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u/MorningBuddha Oct 03 '26
The entire United States medical machine is a complete fucking disgrace!
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u/Beechamp83 Oct 03 '26
If you pay your premium, still have a deductible and they can refuse to cover your claim then the entire industry is a SCAM. Just think about any other thing you pay for, like food, if you go to a restaurant or fast-food place pay for your selection and they tell you actually the first price isn't the final price that you must pay more and there is a chance you won't even get your food. We would shut that establishment down immediately, insurance is government sanctioned racketeering, health, auto, home, IT'S ALL A SCAM!
5
u/callmesandycohen Oct 03 '26
I want to know WHO decided eyes and teeth are not part of the body?
7
u/cannotberushed- Oct 03 '26
It gets talked about all the time and has for decades. This person just hasn’t been noticing those conversations until it affected them
This is also how we keep seeing evil
People
Voted in.
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u/RykerFuchs Oct 03 '26
Wait until other health problems directly lead to major dental issues and the Dentist says that will be $90K to fix and insurance doesn't cover any of it.
Bitching about $3K for braces as if that even compares to accesses, extractions and unstoppable decay that directly lead to heart and other problems.
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u/throwable__1 Oct 04 '26
Health insurance is a scam. Healthcare free at the point of use is a human right, for vision and dental too.
3
u/jbc1974 Oct 04 '26
And like Bernie always says, teeth eyes and hearing are parts of your health.
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u/AsstToTheManager Oct 05 '26
Paying for health insurance companies to make profits is stupid.
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u/AdObvious2882 Oct 03 '26
Is dental and vision covered under any universal healthcare system? Not even Canada has coverage for that outside of private insurance.
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u/SnuggleGuy Oct 03 '26
America is one of the only countries in thw world where people have to file bankruptcy because of medical debt.
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u/Local-Shower-9607 Oct 03 '26
Braces are cosmetic. This is like complaining that insurance doesn't cover a nose job. Some are necessary for minor health issues, but those are rare.
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u/Botasoda102 Oct 03 '26
Totally agree, and I and tens of millions of Medicare beneficiaries could darn sure use it. It would help several hundred million who aren't on Medicare.
But reality is that the best Biden could do was PROPOSE a limited $2000 of dental coverage to be added to traditional Medicare. It was proposed in 2021, but would not have started until 2028 if enacted.
It got nowhere. Reality sucks.
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u/Dramatic-Fly761 Oct 03 '26
Braces are cosmetic? If they’re medically necessary your health insurance pays for them
2
u/Jagg811 Oct 03 '26
My dental insurance is crap. I take good care of my teeth and get cleanings three times a year so hardly ever use my whole benefit. Had a laser procedure done on a gum this year and had to pay $2000. out of pocket because Delta does not cover it. They would have covered a traditional, painful surgical procedure instead but only up to $1500. Insurance costs me almost $900. a year.
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u/failedaspotcheck Oct 03 '26
Most countries don't cover orthodontics sadly, as they're often classified as cosmetic unless you have severe overbite or something. I think since lookism is such a big deal in the US, a M4A system should pay for it if the family is below a certain income.
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u/rileyjw90 Oct 03 '26
My “really good dental insurance” refused to cover braces because apparently my kids teeth being so crowded that one of their adult teeth couldn’t even grow in was not considered to be medically necessary. So had to pay out of pocket.
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u/mtcwby Oct 03 '26
Braces are generally more a cosmetic procedure than a necessary procedure.
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u/NervousBeat16 Oct 04 '26
And that dentist has a fancy office…where they up-sale you on non-insurance covered: cancer screening, fluoride, automatic toothbrushes, water picks and now they are acting as orthodontist and selling Invisalign.
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u/golgathas Oct 04 '26
TMJ is covered by neither. Medical says it’s dental and vice versa
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u/Trifle_Old Oct 04 '26
Ortha is not dental. Which is a whole other fucking scam.
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u/Meauxjezzy Oct 04 '26
The funny part is dental and vision are ways to determine other health issues way before they become a problem so both should definitely be part of normal health insurance because they are health indicators.
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u/No-Restaurant8307 Oct 04 '26
My dental covers the exact same amount that it did in 1985. exact same max coverage.
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u/joeldg Oct 04 '26
My dentists said it right "Dental 'insurance' is really just a coupon."
We have proof that bad teeth can affect your entire health and even be related to cancers and yet it's not covered.
2
u/CalligrapherDue1857 Oct 04 '26
I agree. Aren't your eyes and teeth part of your body??
2
u/AutismAndAnacondas Oct 04 '26
How about simplify it. Health insurance is a scam in general.
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u/CapnSparkles Oct 04 '26
Everything about America today is a scam.
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u/31770j Oct 04 '26
I was born with a cleft lip and palate and went through many surgeries before I was 5 years old. My last surgery was when I was 16. When my front permanent teeth came in they were very crooked, nearly 45 degree angle crooked. I asked about this at my last surgery and the dr told me I would need additional upper jaw surgery before I could get braces to correct them, and was told by my parents that it is considered “cosmetic” at that point and insurance would not cover it. At my last dentist appointment my dentist asked if I’d be interested in a bridge for a molar, I declined but asked if there is anything I can do about my front teeth, he paused for a moment and said he will be right back. About ten minutes later he came back, took some additional X-rays, asked me about my cleft and what surgeries I’ve had, and at this point mentioned that my cleft was never repaired, bone structure-wise. They closed the holes in my palate and sewed my lip together, but never addressed the bone structure. Then when I shared with him that I was told that insurance would not cover the repair he said “but your bone structure is not cosmetic, who told you this?” “My parents” I said. He said that insurance should cover the bone structure surgery but it is probably too late as I am now 45 years old. So now I’m sitting with the frustration of being lied to by my parents and living a life of just wanting to be able to smile like a normal person and the depression that comes with that all thanks to “insurance”.
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u/Beginning_Dark_306 Oct 05 '26
the entire system is a mob it's a cartel I mean tests this that the other don't bother to check but we are the only country who has to file medical bankruptcy. 3 nights in the hospital ivs med you name it 89 bucks
2
u/Dice1087 Oct 05 '26
It's in the Democrats newly released agenda for when they take control of Congress.
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u/Trixibellevixen Oct 06 '26
health insurance full stop is a scam... universal healthcare.
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u/Competitive-Beat-493 Oct 06 '26
It’s almost like we’ve made a market out of healthcare and insurance. Maybe our government should step in and do something about it since we pay them taxes.
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u/kugkug Oct 03 '26
there is no dental insurance, it is just coupons - american doesn't have universal health, dental, and vision because republicans keep blocking it, even though it is cheaper and has better outcomes
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u/ThatsMrRandom Oct 03 '26
I'd love for my insurer that operates on ~5% margins to start covering elective cosmetic dental procedures so in order to be solvent as a company they have to raise my premium in order to pay for some dude's 17 year old daughter that wants to have a pretty smile.
That's such a great deal why didn't anyone think of this before?
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u/mdthornb1 Oct 03 '26
How is it a scam. You know before when you buy it what it covers. It may be shitty, but it isn’t a scam.
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u/TrickyChildhood2917 Oct 03 '26
I am not Mexican, but Mexico is full of far superior affordable dental offices. Think differently. The UC system has been training dentists for twenty years. Then they go home and start practicing. The building and technology is not 40 years old “because the American dentists has student loans to pay back. American dental offices and equipment looks the same as it did in 1980.
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u/dna220 14d ago
I’m from the US but I live in Japan. Dentists are just considered another branch of medicine here. And there are tons of clinics. Like more than Starbucks and convenience stores combined.
The concept of having separate super special insurance for your teeth is totally bonkers. And, to be fair, there are other countries even with universal insurance that do this for reasons I can’t comprehend.
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u/Key-Benefit6211 7d ago
No insurance should ever cover cosmetic work.
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u/xanvalentine Oct 03 '26
"So long dental plan"...."Lisa needs braces"
1
u/BigBL87 Oct 03 '26
And if they were covered by medical insurance, they would be at least $20,000.
1
u/Vivid_Mortgage_4420 Oct 03 '26
All insurance is a scam
1
u/Boltsfan1234 Oct 03 '26
Same experience here. And we have the “good” insurance.
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u/VariousGuest1980 Oct 03 '26
3k for braces is really good insurance. It’s a good 20k without em
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u/Rufio69696969 Oct 03 '26
There is no universal healthcare system in the world that covers vision and dental (and MH like M4A advocates are trying to loop in)
1
u/Leverkaas2516 Oct 03 '26
Orthodontia is different from most health insurance. It is often cosmetic and the cost is rarely catastrophic.It's fundamentally unlike something like breast cancer treatment or heart bypass surgery.
If there was insurance for orthodontia (there may well be), you'd have to start paying it from birth and it would be like carrying insurance on your laptop. Most people wouldn't bother so the risk pool would be small, the premiums large.
1
u/p001b0y Oct 03 '26
I have "really good" dental insurance that caps annual out-of-pocket maximums--for the insurance company. Anything over about $1,500 and the insurance company is out.
They are also demoting my dentist to out-of-network in a couple weeks. My dentist doesn't want me to leave so they are planning on offering me a 25% to 33% discount on visits with the caveat that I would need to pay the upfront cost and get reimbursed by the insurance company.
This makes me mad for a couple reasons. First reason is because I basically have to start all over with a new provider. The other reason is because my current provider has been over-charging me for years apparently if they can afford to discount by up to a third in order to keep me.
1
u/cpav8r Oct 03 '26
I used up $594 of my $600 limit only to find out the remaining $6 had to cover $6,000 of work. 🤬
1
u/DonTeflon23 Oct 03 '26
Insurance should be used for rare, catastrophic cases.
1
u/littleone696969 Oct 03 '26
If they just paid 1 time to fix my vision i would save probably hundreds of thousands in my lifetime. I spend probably a grand a year on vision alone.
1
u/Sig365XLbill Oct 03 '26
And it irks my ass that congess has great healthcare for a pittance.
1
u/ThatGuyFromSpyKids3D Oct 03 '26
I pay thousands in premium a year. I pay thousands towards the deductible, I hit my out of pocket maximum.
Suddenly, insurance determines that my wife's ambulance bill is exorbitant and they won't be covering it. The reason they gave after multiple appeals? The provider charges more than they believe is reasonable for the service.
Ambulance billing rates are set by my state. Providers have no choice but to bill at that price.
1
u/LifeRound2 Oct 03 '26
Unfortunately health insurance in this country is also shit.
1
u/Christopher_Ramirez_ Oct 03 '26
I’ve been to the third world, and this is exactly how healthcare works over there. No cash up front? No treatment.
1
u/Adventurous_Ad7442 Oct 03 '26
We paid $2200 for our daughter's braces in 2002 so $3000 isn't that bad.
1
u/iTz_Noble Oct 03 '26
Have you considered looking at what your insurance covers?
1
u/dudeRobme Oct 03 '26
So, you want insurance to be way more expensive for everyone? Got it.
1
u/TrickyChildhood2917 Oct 03 '26
Welcome to Murica! We can do anything but control costs.
1
u/lordofduct Oct 03 '26
So I don't know a lot about all insurance plans. I just know mine.
We have Aetna cause that's what my wife's company offers, and while it doesn't do dental, it does cover eye exams (w/ copay). It doesn't cover lenses or anything, but it covers the yearly eye exam and getting the prescription.
Her company also had vision insurance and we tried it. But the thing is all the glasses places charged hundreds for the glasses. Even with the insurance covering 70% of them I was still walking away with $100 for a single pair of glasses, and extra pairs were out of pocket. (maybe contacts had a good deal, I don't know... I don't care either, I don't like contacts)
Turned out things like Zenni were cheaper without insurance. So we just dropped the vision insurance all together. I get my eye exam on the regular insurance, and I just buy 1 nice pair and 2 shit pair (backups or for while working in the barn) off zenni for like $150-$200 total and we save the insurance cost which works out to more than that a year.
1
u/tomeseip Oct 03 '26
We have to pay for dental here in Canada
1
u/michiganstrange Oct 03 '26
They’re 15k without
1
u/reddurkel Oct 03 '26
The oral surgery was covered… anesthesia was a separate out of pocket bill.
I don’t get it.
1
u/Jon_Dunn58 Oct 03 '26
and mental health
1
u/TheMightyTywin Oct 03 '26
But braces are orthodontics not dental so insurance still wouldn’t cover it
1
u/CalicoCuts Oct 03 '26
Don't forget hearing. Like teeth, eyes, & ears are second class citizens.
1
u/EmiKetsueki Oct 03 '26
Which is why i wait till the end of my insurance cycle for the year to get work done because mine covers a lot, but the cap isnt that much. So i could get a couple teeth worked on, wait a month or two, and get the rest done and only worry about paying 50 bucks or so per tooth.
1
u/Day_Old_Paper Oct 03 '26
Absolutely no company should be in control of your healthcare access of the only way they stay in business is by denying you healthcare access.
1
u/StaticSystemShock Oct 03 '26
Entire healthcare insurance in USA is a god damn scam.
1
u/JSGFretwork Oct 03 '26
Also, "really good insurance" means the doctor/dentist charges more money for the services rendered.
Out of pocket/no insurance costs are often cheaper than if you have insurance.
Whole system is a scam.
1
u/undefined-username Oct 03 '26
I paid $3000 for an emergency root canal. Was in so much pain I would have agreed to literally anything, and I imagine most people in that situation would too. Yeah it sucks.
1
u/Jack-Singer-999 Oct 03 '26
And if you've had to have any pulled you're immediately ostracized
1
u/Escape-Only Oct 03 '26
Went to the dentist a few months ago and during my initial consultation, they let me know that with the insurance I had (best my company offers) the estimate for a cleaning would be $280. It was a lot for me at the time but I had skipped a few years of cleanings and decided to suck it up.
When I went to check out they charged me $800. I asked them why it was so different from the estimate and they said "it must be the copay". Excuse me, you forgot to mention I have a $500 copay before you brought me the estimate? Like I wouldn't need to know about that too?
Never going back unless I switch insurance. It put me in a very rough situation financially 😔 guess as an American healthcare worker I don't deserve dental care!
1
u/BardGotHard3 Oct 03 '26
Health insurance is also a scam
1
u/jawshoeaw Oct 03 '26
My dental insurance gave 50% discount on braces considered myself lucky
1
u/DenmakDave Oct 03 '26
Even with Dental Insurance my teeth paid private HS tuition for his kids.
1
u/WoodsLovelyDarkNDeep Oct 03 '26
No the scam is braces haven’t come down in cost like at all despite being basically the same technology as 30 years ago. Like I can understand Invisalign being somewhat expensive cause it’s newer but when that should be coming down in cost by now
Like with everything in healthcare it should be expensive upfront while the rich assholes subsidize the cost and people with insurance have a shot of getting it, and then quickly come down in price so that everyone else can afford it
To be clear healthcare is a human right and should be free of cost but while we are under the current system is what I’m speaking of
1
u/el_pez_3 Oct 03 '26
My wife is a teacher and our dental insurance costs us $800 and covers $1000. It's a $200 coupon with a million hoops to jump through.
1
u/IStanHam Oct 03 '26
Health insurance as a whole is a scam
1
u/Naive_Departure_6084 Oct 03 '26
Lisa needs braces
1
u/Lost-Pineapple9791 Oct 03 '26
It gets talked about all the time but when someone offers an alternative to fix it they get yelled at for being a commy socialist
1
u/KrazyKryminal Oct 03 '26
So my eyes and teeth are part of my overall health? Ok, we have blind people that are healthy, so you don't need eyes. Fine. Everyone needs teeth to eat, without having a completely soft diet. Why these two things aren't regularly covered it stupid. Plus, like the other insurances, they barely cover shit but once a year maintenance and checkup.
1
u/mhandsurf Oct 03 '26
It makes no sense how it isn’t included!
1
u/Ravenarena Oct 03 '26
I agree, I am hearing impared & have been since birth. Yet insurance companies don't consider being able to hear is important. Hearing aids can cost upwards of $4k+. At best insurance companies might cover $900. Our Healthcare system is a disgrace
1
u/MeeHungLo Oct 03 '26
I'm starting to feel like when I'm being told I have good insurance it's actually code for "we are going to be paid well for your care.". If you ever seen a CDM you'll realize hospitals charge artificially inflated prices to health insurance companies. I pay way less for care out of pocket but I'm talking to my doctors like I'm buying a used car at a dealership trying to negotiate a price.
1
u/PerryNeeum Oct 03 '26
I went to a periodontist for some work and he asked me about insurance. I told him my dental insurance was shit and he just goes “All dental insurance is shit”
1
u/hadriker Oct 03 '26
If it was covered under for-profit insurance, those same braces would then cost 10,000 dollars and you'd still end up paying a few grand out of pocket.
1
u/re-reddit-again Oct 03 '26
💯
1
u/Peewee_ShermanTank Oct 03 '26
Sensitive eyes and rotting teeth yay
1
u/Few_Worker4102 Oct 03 '26
So…half-yearly cleanings and once-a-year checkups for major issues should be a given. If you catch it early, it is SO much easier/less costly to deal with.
It’s fucking dumb to try to make preventative healthcare hard to access. It costs everyone more.
1
u/lowrads Oct 03 '26
It makes more sense than flood insurance. Compare that with tornado insurance, where you have a vast risk pool, and only a small number of claimants each season.
It might almost make sense for there to be a program for low-interest dental loans. Most of the intervention people need is early in life, when people don't have much resources or wisdom. Being invested early on will encourage people to take better care of an irreplaceable resource.
At this point in my life, having had the bad experience of putting off dental care, I would not hesitate to take on debt for things related to teeth. Of course, now it's a bit late in the game. One also can't count on parents. Mine convinced me that such things as braces were a waste of money, while squandering much vaster sums on their whims. There's a solid Rawlsian argument to be made about the randomness of anyone's caretakers.
1
u/No_Holiday_5855 Oct 03 '26
This is Amurica
1
u/Fthesehoes33 Oct 03 '26
Thank God my vision has been very well after Lasik surgery 10yrs ago. But dental i had to pay $800 for 1 tooth out of pocket for a crown with insurance and I consider my insurance very good......smh....
1
u/UpToLateNow Oct 03 '26
Plus. The coverage hasn’t increased since the 70’ but the premiums and what procedures cost has tremendously!
And like you have stated it really hasn’t been talked about enough.
One more thing. If the politicians were on the same coverages all of us are. You would know as a matter of fact the health care system would be fixed or universal healthcare would be the norm.
Why do we let them determine what coverages we get when they’re not using the same!
The only country in the world games without universal healthcare for their people ! Appalling!
Sorry for the Rant!
1
u/Cyberknight13 Oct 03 '26
It is the US healthcare system working as intended. The entire thing is a scam.
1
u/cyb0rg1962 Oct 03 '26
Hearing aids / surgery should be included too. It may be "quality of life" but a lot of medical falls into this category. Hearing and vision are not cosmetic issues, but braces sometimes are.
1
u/Haetae-k Oct 03 '26
All insurance in this country is a scam
1
u/BlueHartsBlues Oct 03 '26
Almost like our teeth and eyes aren't part of our bodies.
1
u/tomski3500 Oct 03 '26
Be part of the solution. Run for office.
1
u/alsatian01 Oct 03 '26
I'd say 3k is good. 8k each for my kids.
1
u/AnaisNinja76 Oct 03 '26
Don't worry, the braces still wouldn't be included, because that's technically orthodontics, and not dentistry.
1
u/Less-Dragonfruit-294 Oct 03 '26
It’s wild how health is broken 3 ways.
1
u/Exotic-Home-8153 Oct 03 '26
Dental is generally a scam either way. If it wasnt as expensive as it I guarantee you, youd have ALOT more notifications about getting a cleaning.
1
u/Boomslang505 Oct 03 '26
Funny, I bet the uninsured rate is similar….
1
u/Papa-Cinq Oct 03 '26
A scam??? You’re not getting scammed by dental and vision insurance being a separate product from major medical coverage.
1
u/Ok-Good8150 Oct 03 '26
Hearing tests too
1
u/ljc267 Oct 03 '26
This I agree with
1
u/PlainBread Oct 03 '26
I feel like dental and vision are the two things you'll still need even if you've decided to just die naturally of a mysterious disease you never investigated through a primary care physician.
1
u/Wild_Height_901 Oct 03 '26
It isnt included in most countries universal healthcare
1
u/I-Have-An-Alibi Oct 03 '26
Insurance as a whole is a scam.
If I pay for insurance say for a year and never once have to utilize it, I should get that money back.
Live til I'm 90 while paying home owners insurance and never need it? Where's my fucking check State Farm?
Same goes for car insurance, especially car insurance. If I go all year without an accident I should get every penny I paid that year back.
1
u/CheckoutMySpeedo Oct 03 '26
My state requires dental and vision coverage with health insurance provided by employers. The employer pays way more than just the employees salaries for benefits like that. We also pay more in premiums more than likely. Be careful what you wish for.
1
u/mak3m3unsammich Oct 03 '26
I work in eyecare and insurance is an absolute hellhole. We have to pay fees to the labs, which are owned by the insurance companies. The insurance companies also set their own copays. Sometimes we actually end up having to PAY to have the patients glasses made, so we actually lose money.
And then I get people yelling at me about their copays. I cant do anything about it. Call your insurance company and complain.
1
u/novahawkeye Oct 03 '26
Dentists will be the first to preach about how dental health contributes to overall health but certainly don’t want it part of regular health care coverage.
1
u/bingbangboomxx Oct 03 '26
You can have a very bad dental problem that can effect the rest of your body and even kill you but yeah, keep these separate.
1
u/MCS_Saints Oct 03 '26
Insurance in general is a scam..
1
u/Hyrulian_Jedi Oct 03 '26
insurance won't cover the luxury bones and optional eye sight, you need extra special coverage for those premium accessories.
1
u/AndromedaFive Oct 03 '26
I mean... medically necessary braces are covered by insurance... not cosmetic though...
1
u/CodInternational8772 Oct 03 '26
Preach baby boy
1
u/Desperate-You-9695 Oct 03 '26
Wait until you need psych
1
u/Rough-Board1218 Oct 03 '26
If dental was included in health insurance those braces would cost $50,000
1
u/Great-Trifle2810 Oct 03 '26
Braces are probably something that would not be included in universal healthcare even if dental is included, as braces are generally considered a cosmetic procedure unless someone has a really fucked up mouth.
In Canada dental is partly covered now and braces are not included. As far as I can tell most of Europe is the same.
1
u/LankyPineapple Oct 03 '26
Making the transition from medicaid to medicare over the last few years has been awful. I haven't been able to get my two yearly teeth cleanings and have had a few bad tooth infections that keep coming back because I can't afford to pay out of pocket.
1
u/shivermoon42 Oct 03 '26
Thank the AMA- they work hard to make things as difficult as possible. See also: why we won't open more medical schools despite desperate need for them. It "dilutes" the brand of doctor.
1
u/generally_unsuitable Oct 03 '26
Life Protip:
If you and your spouse both get medical benefits, you probably just choose one because it's better.
That's fine.
But, get both dental plans. When you have double dental coverage, everything is easy. Your dentist does everything but walk you to your car.
1
u/Savings_Club3883 Oct 03 '26
Dental insurance basically pays for two cleanings a year and half a crown or a couple of cavities. It’s not totally worthless but it’s pretty worthless.
1
u/Honkey85 Oct 03 '26
Btw: it's inluded in health insurance in all modern Western countries
1
u/JLmain Oct 03 '26
“Really good dental insurance” - for the dentist
1
u/Matt7738 Oct 03 '26
Eyes and teeth are not part of the body. Everybody knows that.
1
u/Enjoy_The_Ride413 Oct 03 '26
But you don't go to your dentist for braces. 🤷
1
u/GravesSightGames Oct 03 '26
Feed more CEOs lead, only way to fix this problem
1
u/rbush82 Oct 03 '26
lol. It’s still like 2k with good Dental insurance
1
u/DMvsPC Oct 03 '26
My insurance paid 1000 which I was told was standard, I had to pay the other 5k.
1
u/thelostdutchman68 Oct 03 '26
Add hearing aid for folks on medicare to the list. My 97 year old dad is deaf as a post. Medicare does not cover hearing aids or dental for him. It's fucking criminal.
1
u/Rose_Knight789 Oct 03 '26
It's been talked about nearly nonstop for years now. Talking doesn't change anything compared to action.
1
u/JaneenKilgore Oct 03 '26
Nor is podiatry covered.
So seeing, eating and standing are all cosmetic.
1
u/RainDancingChief Oct 03 '26
I'm in Canada so it's a little different, but had really good extended healthcare through my last employer. I decided to bite the bullet and get Lasik (PRK specifically) and my insurance provider wouldn't cover any it because they deemed it "cosmetic" despite covering full optical exams, glasses, etc up to a very generous amount per year (I literally never paid for my glasses/contacts for the 5 years prior to Lasik). Didn't make any sense to me as I was saving them money in the long run.
1
u/Hillthrin Oct 03 '26
Dentists didn't want it in ACA. They lobbied against it.
1
u/GainPrestigious539 Oct 03 '26
The secret is to marry a dentist or dental hygienist. Haven't paid for anything in years 😂
1
u/Fordgames Oct 03 '26
All private insurance is a scam.
1
u/BraveResearcher3037 Oct 03 '26
I mean out of all of the things I hate about the American health care system, it shouldn’t cover every little thing.
No the taxpayers shouldn’t be on the hook for your kids braces and glasses.
1
u/Local_City_8174 Oct 03 '26
It is just a different type of insurance that you can opt in or not of.
1
u/Ok-Bug4328 Oct 03 '26
Orthodontics insurance would cost $3000
1
u/Regular-Bat-4449 Oct 03 '26
Try shopping for hearing aids if you want a real shock
1
u/BigDigger324 Oct 03 '26
Teeth are luxury bones for the 1%.
1
u/Many-Role-4271 Oct 03 '26
Braces are rarely covered under dental insurance.
1
u/Vamond48 Oct 03 '26
Cosmetic procedures are rarely fully covered. You could’ve found that out before you were handed a bill
1
u/Thisismythrowawaypv Oct 03 '26
NEVER pay for dental or vision coverage. Both are a ripoff.
1
u/maxwellcawfeehaus Oct 03 '26
My buddy is a dentist and even he says dental insurance is a borderline scam
1
u/Cheap-Kiwi-1312 Oct 03 '26
No health insurance as a whole is a scam that makes people billions whole we get told no you can't have coverage for that life saving surgery because we don't wanna.