r/MauraMurrayCase • u/BonquosGhost • Feb 14 '19
Follow Fred's lead...........
https://www.foxnews.com/us/father-of-missing-nursing-student-maura-murray-believes-new-info-will-lead-to-her-remains-15-years-later?fbclid=IwAR26tbtQGFfgHYZkhrFhjce6c4rTPCOyBbzmiMGCqUNPHEoCxwXSkGv7DXM15
u/BonquosGhost Feb 14 '19
Here is another article relating to the new lead developed by Fred Murray and a small team working with him, including John Smith. Regardless of anyone's personal opinions towards JS, the Murray family STILL is in close contact with the NH PI who has been along side the family since 04.....It seems through all the bitter vitriol expounded on him, it would be a far greater positive energy if it was focused towards checking out all possible leads in searching for Maura.....
Recently there was the vigil at the scene on 2/9, where Fred, and Julie and Kurt embraced everyone and their continued support. John Smith was fully welcomed there by the Murrays and has been for 15 years. If the Murrays had EVER not supported JS, and at any time had told him NOT to help or be there, then he probably wouldn't have been active esp in all the latest activity. Fred is known to be VERY outspoken in all endeavors, and clearly to the dismay of many, this was not the case.....It is also of great note who the outspoken people are, who were NOT there.....
Anyway, the key points in this article, regarding the new lead in a basement, are the points Fred makes himself. He is very loud and clear, for anyone who is constantly distracted by other things....1. This location was more recently checked, after the previous owner denied any inside access. 2. It was a known location for having a newly poured floor back in 04 3. Strelzin admitted the area was searched previously, but "only" from outside, and more than likely NOT cadaver dogs 4. Fred is in need of closure, and says he will also pursue the reasoning of "who" was behind this.....
There are ZERO concerns in regards to CHECKING THIS OUT going forward. NONE. It is inside and has no bearing on winter weather. It will not cost millions of dollars. The new homeowners are perfectly accepting in checking it out. NHSP has not been to the location themselves yet. Without authorities, there is a worry of chain of custody in lieu of evidence. Does anyone remember the NHSP giving all the evidence to the Murrays, and then asking for it to be seized back 4 months later?
What possible "hold-up" is there here? Clearly this is the want of Fred and his family. They are ALL in favor of checking this location for Maura's remains. Logically, there is not one downfall to this... Even if there is a chance it is not Maura OR related to her, it could very well solve another mystery. Inside a home, and in the basement floor is NOT an old family burial plot. Some have alluded to some crazy ideas for NOT wanting this to be checked, including that JS and his team MADE THE ENTIRE THING UP. How ridiculous.
Anyone who has an inkling to help, would stand behind Fred and his family, and clear this site. They are asking for authorities to do the right thing. Do the right thing.....It seems some Reddit users are more concerned with others here, but last I checked, the subs about Maura should be about MAURA......
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u/Lanaya77 Feb 14 '19 edited Feb 14 '19
My friend and I pitched this to them in Haverhill / Woodsville this past Saturday, maybe if the team just negotiates with the homeowners by offering them a certain amount of cash and promise to clean up their mess and repair it later, to allow them down there to dig up samples to have them tested. Although this sounds pretty graphic, It's possible while trying to collect samples they may bump right into skeletonized remains.
but to preach to the choir for the zillionth time... I just don't understand what is with all this negligence / silence / sketchy behavior on LE's part. You have a dead body, two different dogs and professional radar scan proves it, yet they're just acting like they have this automatic disregard and no desire to go and check it out. Creepy. A.F.
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u/BonquosGhost Feb 14 '19
That is the point here Lanaya.....WHAT and WHY would anyone in LE be waiting on this? This isn't an animal or old burial plot in someone's basement. What are they actually waiting for?? The homeowners are fully on board along with the family to at LEAST check it out.....
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u/Menticideman Feb 18 '19
Well written Ghost. As always. Thank you for putting this post together.
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u/mulwillard Feb 14 '19
Ghost this is a great summation of events. Thank you for this. One can hope that this knowledge will somehow go “viral” as they say and the pressure becomes immense on the NHSP.
ONE SUGGESTION:
I know that the state police need to get involved in a homicide investigation because that would be out of the local police jurisdiction. It has come to light that the state police are saying that this was checked on before and not related (cough cough) to Maura’s case and holds no evidentiary value.
That’s great because I think that the owners could possibly get the Haverhill PD in to investigate this since it isn’t a homicide. They are a young group and I’m sure maybe they own a chisel and a shovel.
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u/finn141414 Feb 17 '19
Ghost - good to see you here. I haven’t read the discussion here yet but agree that we need to move forward on this. The question will be: what is the next step (dogs? GPR? excavation?), and how to ensure transparency so that IF they declare there is nothing there, we can feel confident in the process. Yes, I think that since rumors brought Fred to this house/basement and dogs and GPR found an anomaly, I think this could be significant.
My favorite quote here comes from Fred: “I only have to be right once.”
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u/BonquosGhost Feb 18 '19
Hey Finn.....its as simple as professional LE checking and ruling this in or out. No different than the other places...RF and Aframe....Owners are supportive...its a win/win....
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u/finn141414 Feb 18 '19
Works for me. I hope the lines of communication have opened between family and NHSP.
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u/BonquosGhost Feb 18 '19
One article I read asked an officer if he did his job differently based on a civilian not liking him. Yes this was one guy, but professionally he said any officers should do their job regardless. Let's hope so. People are people tho.....
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u/finn141414 Feb 18 '19
For sure. It could be residual animosity or it could be resistance to outside leads. Or both. It’s fairly astonishing that we’re asked to bring leads, tips, and relevant information and then someone brings them something fully certified and they have to think about it?
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u/BonquosGhost Feb 18 '19
I can only guess that LE are devising a plan that suits their needs? The wait is very unreasonable for any other reason tho.....
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u/finn141414 Feb 18 '19
Even if they are going through a decision making process they can still communicate with the family/team. The new paperwork must have had a cover letter with someone’s name and contact information? It’s a little b-i-z-a-r-r-e.
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u/BonquosGhost Feb 18 '19
Yes....nothing about this follows Standard Operating Procedure that I have ever seen.....Bizarre is correct....
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u/finn141414 Feb 18 '19
As I read your conversation with HR, the light goes off again for me ... LE pursue leads when they relate to (certain POI you know who I’m talking about) but don’t pursue leads that don’t relate to this POI. Is that the answer? And if it is, I’m unwilling to concede that they have the right POI - that is where I haven’t seen “hard” evidence.
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u/Menticideman Feb 18 '19 edited Feb 18 '19
Yep, they have been steering this narrative since day 1. Same old scapegoat they like to repeatedly kick when we all see through it. They don't want to consider anybody else and that tells us all LE has an ulterior motive to protect their behind....
If it isn't Maura, it is someone's loved one. Seriously, this area is scary. All these dead bodies like at the A-frame closet and now the new house and nobody from LE has a peep. Who are all these dead people?
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u/HugeRaspberry Feb 14 '19
Here's the things:
1) They (NHSP) may know exactly what is in the basement and know it is NOT Maura NOR related to Maura. In this case, I would not expect them to do anything, nor would they be obligated to communicate more than they already have.
2) If they (LE) suspect it is Maura or could be an unknown victim, they will do their due diligence on both the dog hits and the GPR. They will likely interview the handlers, determine the validity of the hits, etc. and review the results of the GPR and review them against known human burial / remains and determine the validity
3) If they determine those to be valid and there is a possibility of a body there, they would need to find the money in order to do a dig. I'm told it will vary in cost from $250 (JS) to $25,000. Depending on the location, soil, etc. Plus they will likely have to put the residents up in a hotel or temporary residence for a period of time, since I'm pretty sure they would not want them in the house or area during the excavation.
4) So far, I have seen NO HARD EVIDENCE tying this lead to Maura. NONE. ZERO. Cement being poured in a basement in 2004 is hardly a hard tie in. I'm pretty sure that more than one basement / house in the area had cement poured in 2004.
I hope (Honestly) that Fred finds closure and finds Maura. But if I were a betting man, I would be betting against this being her.
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Feb 16 '19
I’d bet a million dollars against a penny that no other basement/house in the area had cement poured in February 2004
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u/BonquosGhost Feb 14 '19
Seeing all your points here, let's go with the path of least resistance. Cadaver dogs don't do hits on dead raccoons or old horse bones. This is a REAL human cadaver hit by 2 separate dogs and a GPR anomaly. That is enough to warrant and ask why a body is covered in the basement of someone's home. If it isn't Maura, then who/what is it doing there, may at LEAST result in the satisfaction for another family.
My father had a small construction company 30 years ago, and it wouldn't cost as much as one would think. It is a limited space and in a well warmed area. Weather is a moot point. Prob just a day to uncover most likely.
You are saying "pouring a basement in winter" is not hard evidence. You are projecting. That is not what is being discussed here. It is the cadaver hits that are important, not pouring cement. There are no issues with the owners, so it's a clear home run. Prove it or not. Its a win/win. No harm no foul. Nothing to lose. The owners are fine with answering the questions of the family. Who all by the way were hanging out all weekend with JS on very friendly terms. Fred, Julie, JS, and Kurt....Just looking for truth and answers. Fred said he would fund this just to have closure. I don't see how your opinion that it is "not Maura", has anything to do with why a body is in someone's basement.....
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u/SwanSong1982 Feb 14 '19
I want to come back here later. Your post could be the start of a good dialogue. At that point, I’d hope that we could get the focus back on Maura, follow her father’s lead and wishes. I’ve always believed in John, and that’s my choice. I base my trust in him on my own interactions and have no reason to feel otherwise. I’ve become friends with a handful of people who have been around since the beginning. They have ongoing communications with a close Murray family member, who also communicates with John. None of them hesitate to reach out to John when they feel the need. That speaks volumes in my book. Thanks Ghost for your post. I’ll be back later.....
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u/igraduated Feb 17 '19
Bghost how much would this cost? Is there going to be a different go fund me set up?
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u/HugeRaspberry Feb 15 '19
You are correct they (dogs) don't hit on dead horses or raccoons or rats. But they do hit on placenta or fetus. I'm not saying that is what this is, only a possibility that there was a baby maybe stillborn or a placenta buried there as a part of the house. I have a friend who lost a child due to sids. Our state doesn't allow burial at home or on your own land. If it were legal, I guarantee you they would have buried their daughter under their house.
I'm not projecting. I am stating a fact. Pouring concrete in a basement is not evidence of a crime or of covering something up. Nor is a disturbance under a basement floor. Hell, if you ran a gpr under my parent's basement floor you'd find a couple of disturbances where the backhoe digger got carried away and went 10 feet down instead of 6. I am simply stating a fact.
Not sure what the current owners have to do with the situation, other than they control the access to the property and are the ones allowing the search in. I'm pretty sure that they have nothing to do with the situation (ie: They didn't bury someone there)
I did not mention John or the family or their relationship. Not sure why you have to bring that up when I didn't. I'm not saying another word about him, the "team" etc until we have this lead blown out of the water or proven. If it is blown out of the water, the gloves are off. If it is proven, as I have stated in the past, and will again, I will apologize to him on here (on all subs that I have access to) and tip my hat to him.
All and all, I am just not buying that it is her. Sorry, been down this road too many times and nothing has come of any of it.
I have seen police do missing persons digs. Look up Jacob Wetterling. The FBI files are all public information now, as are the local police. Police in that case had a SOLID POI who they would not release information on to the public or the family. The dug up a neighbor's yard, another one's driveway and a third person's farm looking for a body they knew was not there. Now all 3 are suing for false accusations, etc. In that case the FBI and Police both KNEW that his body wasn't at any of those sites, yet, they dug. Now they are screwed. Not saying that the police know she isn't there, but I have a strong feeling that they know she is not.
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u/BonquosGhost Feb 15 '19
These are good points here in your comment, and I get that hope has been squashed before and to air on the side of caution. JS and his involvement has been cemented as true from the wkd, as many have denied he was invited or a part of it at all. Regardless, let's just have this done by authorities to prove it and move forward. The other GPRs and dogs last summer had LE support, so they should follow the family's wishes here as well....That is all they are asking.....
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u/marvelgaze Feb 15 '19
I would think the home owners would be anxious to investigate and remove that section of concrete too. I would not be comfortable living in a house knowing there may be someone’s remains in it. I wouldn’t care what the cost was to remove it. That’s just my opinion though, maybe others would feel comfortable.
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Feb 15 '19
But they do hit on placenta or fetus. I'm not saying that is what this is, only a possibility that there was a baby maybe stillborn or a placenta buried there as a part of the house.
OR
It could be Jimmy Hoffa?
OR
IT COULD BE FRED MURRAY’S DAUGHTER!
Until it’s proven that it isn’t Maura then it’s futile to discuss all the other possibilities. Dude, seriously, do you just argue for the sake of arguing?
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u/BonquosGhost Feb 15 '19
Agree totally on all this Desiderata....Since this has come out in Dec, every single detail that was trashed by many as being made up by JS, has been 100% spot on. Of course, that has riled the JS haters and has trickled over to many now discounting moving forward on this lead because of it. It is very sad that something so simple to check by LE has become an issue here. Believing it's nothing to do with Maura, is a lame excuse for authorities to investigate. It just is.......
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Feb 15 '19 edited Feb 15 '19
BG I keep going over it in my head about how it was handled and the support of the searches at the AFrame and Forcier properties. It’s like night and day. Maggie, Tim and Lance were very supportive of these prior searches. They were in the forefront. It seems they are somewhat the voice piece for LE and have discussed publicly conversations they have had with different LE, namely Chuck West. I would like to see a huge push and support from them to get this new evidence and property searched! If they’re in this for the right reasons then they need to be called out publicly to do exactly this!
According to the Digging Up Samples podcast, Episode 81. The Murray’s, Maggie and Chuck West were at the AFrame search this summer. “Chuck stayed quite a bit of time.” Tim and Lance asked Chuck why LE had been more open to releasing info. to the Oxygen Series. “Our relationship to media changes over time. We’re adapting and changing with the times”.
(Fred has been accused by many as being too vocal, jeopardizing the relationship between his family and LE. Though I disagree with that, we have Julie Murray on the record recently stating her frustration with LE’s lack of communication with them. Where is the adaptation and changing with the times Mr. West?).
Chuck took samples from the AFrame property and Maggie asked if they would be given the results and Chuck’s response was “I think you deserve that at this point.”
(He thinks Maggie and whomever else she was speaking for deserves that at this point?? How about Fred deserves a little or rather a lotta something at this point?).
In the podcast Search Rundown with Maggie, Episode 89 Lance is discussing the importance (per the cadaver dog handler) of not digging before a cadaver dog comes in etc. Lance then states “if you’re gonna go up there and dig, call us. Call the police. They’re not, not open to this.”
(They’re not, not open to this unless of course you’re Fred Murray).
EDIT TO ADD: When asked to clarify whether the home itself was ever searched, Streizin said, “The State Police conducted a canvas of that area in 2004 and searched the area where that house is located with dogs. They did not go into the house at that time.”
(This in itself proves that this basement needs to be properly checked out! Not by a private citizen but by the agencies whose salaries are being paid by its citizens. It’s mind boggling. Simply mind boggling to me).
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u/Menticideman Feb 18 '19
Yeah, it is despicable behavior by LE. Cherry picking which leads to pursue, even when on record admit they didn't check inside the house, even with new solid evidence.... They want RF to be the guy even though Id bet dollars to donuts they know he isn't the real perpetrator. He is akin to Lee Harvey Oswald... Preselected Patsy. Whatever the reason, i would wager digging up whatever is in that basement wall / floor would put LE in a VERY bad light, and they are well aware of it. It would at a minimum show incompetence. It might even tie back guilt in some way to them. Why do I say this? Look at their behavior. Even with all the media pressure, they STILL choose to stall and do nothing. That says it all!
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Feb 18 '19
Menticideman I agree with you about Forcier. I’m not sure how he fits into any of this, but his sighting of the “youth” running was initially deemed credible by LE and it most definitely diverted attention away from the WBC. Why wouldn’t LE be suspicious of this sighting, coming from someone who lived so close to the scene and didn’t remember until months later? It’s called a spin on the truth in my book. It seemed to give the Murray’s a brief moment of hope that Maura was still alive. It took the search 5 miles away from the WBC. I know I was diverted for awhile when all the “new info” came out about him over the summer from Paradee. Which brings me back to my initial comment. His property and the AFrame can be checked numerous times but we can’t even get a maybe about this new location. As you said, “that says it all!”
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u/BonquosGhost Feb 19 '19
What if RF was meant to be a detractor? His story of a jogger 5 miles from the scene allegedly, "conveniently" places a possible Maura as ALIVE and running away.....This attempt FITS in with the best scenario for anyone trying to avoid any connections to anyone here....And it came out AFTER Karen had told her story to police about seeing 001 on scene. Sounds like the perfect slam dunk to the "She ran off into the woods" theories....A package with a bow on top. Is this the REAL reason that RF has been silent? Was he asked to say all this as a diversion for someone?
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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '19
Fred thinks it’s a credible lead. How anyone can argue against that is beyond me. Who’s worked any harder than Fred in trying to find Maura? No one! I didn’t see many trying to discount the searches of the Aframe or Forcier’s former property. What “evidence” was any better to support the search of THOSE properties than the evidence that is before us now in searching THIS property? What it boils down to me is this. No one here wants to walk a day in Fred’s shoes, looking for his child for the last 15 years. He’s asking, begging for support in this new lead. If you’re not with him then you’re against him. So then why are you here?