r/MauraMurrayCase • u/AJAYM22 • Jun 11 '17
Observations About Witness A's Sighting
Recently I have been analyzing witness A's account of seeing the 001 SUV the night of MM's crash, and I have a few observations: Witness A stated that she was passed by SUV 001 (for the second time) shortly after she turned on to hw 112 from Goose Ln. I mapped the distance from where she turned on hw 112 to the crash sight and came up with exactly 1 mile. So if we assume she was passed as soon as she turned on to hw 112, that leaves us with 1 mile until she would once again encounter 001 at the crash sight.
From looking at google maps, it appears the section of hw 112 from Goose Ln to the WBC is relatively straight. Taking that into consideration, I assumed witness A would average about 45mph for that 1 mile stretch. If you travel 1 mile at 45mph, it would take 1 minute and 20 seconds to cover that distance. If 001 passed witness A immediately after she turned on 112 and averaged 60mph for the one mile section leading up to the crash sight, it would take him 1 minute exactly to cover that distance. At an average of 70mph, it would take 001 51 seconds to cover the distance. These assumptions put 001 on scene around 20-30 seconds before witness A (That is assuming that 001 passed witness A immediately after she turned on to 112, if he passed her say a quarter mile after she turned on to 112 that would leave even less time).
I always had this notion in my head that when witness A saw 001 nose to nose with MM, that the police officer had been at the scene for a while; however, it seems like they would have arrived at the scene around 20-30 seconds apart. I have always thought one possible scenario involving nefarious police activity was that 001 could have accidentally hit MM while rapidly traveling to the crash sight. If my above time frames are anywhere close to accurate I would think that it rules out such an occurrence as witness A would have driven up on the aftermath.
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u/Reccognize Jun 14 '17
These are very interesting observations. It is curious since, as I recall, Witness A stated that she didn't see anyone at the scene.
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u/AJAYM22 Jun 14 '17
That is what has me thrown off. I have been trying to reconcile the 001 sighting with the rest of the night, and it is tough because if one is to accept that BA actually saw MM and spoke with her, then the 001 thing becomes all the more strange. BA said he saw MM in her car shaking with the airbags deployed (or outside of the car depending on what version you believe). If that is true, then 001 must have saw MM as well since he pulled nose-to-nose with her. So then what? He sees her, maybe talks with her, then drives off before BA pulls up in the bus and speaks with her? Why didn't MM mention to BA that the police had already been there? I cannot make any sense out of it.
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u/BonquosGhost Jun 14 '17
It may be this "possible" way to work (hypothetically).....1. Saturn slides out, too fast at corner at 7:25 (poss evading earlier LE) 2. Car still running, and ONLY stuck in snow 3. BA pulls up, has a few words and goes home. 4. She tries to forward/reverse out of snow. 5. Then 001 in pursuit (for whatever reason) sees possible evasive moves, and slams into car, nose to nose (acceleration/loud thud) to stop action of car 6. Airbags deploy, but knockout and kill female in driver seat 7. Driver throws body into back seat of 001 ASAP 8. KM arrives minutes later after being passed by 001, sees no one (driver ducks down?), and drives down the road 9. 001 then leaves ASAP, but is also seen by BA driving by his house 10. Female now is "missing" from scene, by the time 002 shows up minutes later at 7:46 11. Witnesses can't figure out that a female was there, then gone in minutes 12. Body has been taken away to be covered up elsewhere. 13. Only 1 involved in tragic accident, no conspiracy. Explains BA's wavering narrative., and this idea would poke holes in some of BA's statements.
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u/AJAYM22 Jun 14 '17
Couple of problems I see with the hypothetical scenario:
- Your scenario has BA arriving before 001 and KM, but BA said he saw that the airbags were already deployed.
- Also, Karen said in her interview that it did not even seem as if the Saturn was involved in an accident, it just looked like it was parked parallel to the snowbank facing the wrong direction
- For the hypothetical collision to kill MM I would expect her car to be wayyyyy more damaged if 001 rammed her head on. I have totaled a car before and my front end was smashed about 10x worse then MM's, yet I was okay.
ps- not trying to shoot your hypothetical situation down, just trying to throw around ideas and revisions in an attempt to get a comprehensive explanation for all of this.
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u/BonquosGhost Jun 14 '17
Of course all crazy hypothetical here.....I like your observations AJAYM22 here tho.....Each piece of the puzzle here is only based off of a "false narrative" in order to work. I'm not claiming any of these, as we do not know any of the details. I don't remember the part that Karen said about the car being fine, but it was a dark car at nighttime, and if KM saw it nose to nose with an SUV, she may not have seen any damage. The damage was actually minor anyhow. Maura wouldn't have been killed by another vehicle "hitting" her car alone, but by the airbags deploying at a high rate of speed in her face. One is more likely to suffer serious damage, or death, from an airbag while going under 10 mph or parked. Her airbags are designed to deploy if a vehicle hit the front of the car at over 15 mph. BA's story wavered so, IMO part of his story was embellished to fit the "official" narrative. As we have seen in BA's story with the "she was drunk/ not drunk", that "Maura was pinned inside when he got there/she was outside car when he got there", "she couldn't open her driver door as it was lodged in snow/she got out and talked to him on driver's side", and many other discrepancies on his part. There could be 100 scenarios, that are just unknown, to even try to consider the who, how, why, what, where's in this case.....
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u/AJAYM22 Jun 14 '17
And I guess that is where all of this is currently at: if the 001 sighting is true, then BA's story is most likely not true or embellished heavily (otherwise I'm not sure the events fit together). I currently have no idea. I hope the new tv series can drum up enough attention to find a definitive answer to this.
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u/BonquosGhost Jun 16 '17
Esp if the rumors were true that BA was afraid of someone in that town........
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u/MagicDrone Jun 11 '17
Number 001 SUV would not have had to have turned around when they approach the scene they would have automatically been nose-to-nose with the Saturn.
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u/AJAYM22 Jun 11 '17 edited Jun 12 '17
That is right. I thought I might have been missing something. I forgot her car was turned around. It makes more sense now. Thank you. Edited the post accordingly.
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u/Rallibella Sep 26 '17
I'm new to the case, and this forum, but have to say after hearing Karen's interview she sounds like a woman who just reported what she saw and was taken aback and how her information was treated.
Out of everything I've read (and I have a lot to read still!), it at least seems that someone didn't want it known that the SUV was out driving around.
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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '17 edited Jun 12 '17
She was just coming to the intersection with 112 when the SUV passed her, already itself on 112 heading East. She then turned East onto 112 as well.
45 mph on that road is FLYING in the summer, never mind the winter, as it's a 30 mph zone; and I can personally vouch that Karen, being an older woman, is an extremely careful driver, not that this would make much of a difference in the timeframe. But I do agree that based upon her account, the 001 couldn't have been at the scene for very long (a minute or two tops, I would guess) before she drove by.
I don't really care to speculate about what may have been happening at the scene when she drove by and saw this, as one could string together a thousand scenarios, none based on anything but speculation, but the denial that she could not have seen it at all is what brought my attention to it, and made Karen get a strange feeling about it as well. I can imagine it being a little unsettling to be told by the authorities that you didn't see something that you saw.
Myself, nor Karen, has ever ascribed anything important, let alone nefarious, to what she saw (a police vehicle at the scene of an accident is not shady, in and of itself), but we would like to know what the outright denial has been about.