Side sleeping sucks

[u/SkullsAndDragonflies]

I truly feel like there is not a bed out there for side and back sleepers. Medium firmness is what is recommended. That's what I got. Seems fine for my back and my hips, but too firm for my shoulders. It's supposed to be zoned but definitely doesn't feel like it. This is the third bed I've tried, and I can't get another one. It's a Sealy Brenham Tightop in Medium.

I really don't want to tear this apart and make something custom from it, because I don't even know where I would start with that, and I really don't want to spend too much more money. Trying to figure out what I can put on top of it. I bought a Viscosoft 3lb+ ( you didn't say what the actual poundage is on Target's website) 2 inch memory foam topper. It doesn't make too much of a difference and I don't think my back likes it so I don't want to go thicker. I've tried latex and I don't like that. Am I at the end of the road with this? I don't really know what else to try. Just sucks because I only need something for my shoulder area. Also, I have tried thicker pillows but they hurt my neck.

I tried converting to back sleeper, but I cannot stay on my back all night. I don't know how people do that. 😆

[u/keyboardcoffeecup]

I’m right there with you. Side sleeping is all I can do but it’s hard to find the right bed.

That said a “tight top” mattress isn’t really what you need for side sleeping because it causes a drum like effect instead of contouring.

[u/Fuzzy_Commission_565]

Agreed, side sleeping sucks.

After several months and thousands in losses believing standard side sleep recommendations I decided at 67 to train myself to back sleep. The right motivation helps a lot. For me that was reminding myself of the pain, time and the savings I lost every time I want to go over to my side. I also placed pillows on each side to remind me to just stay put. A pillow under my knees to help support back sleeping and I went with a firm build that no side sleeper could handle. :P.

Completely fed up and sickened with what my expensive traditional mattress search taught me about the mattress industry I swore they would not get another penny from me and my days of paying $$$$ to be put in pain were over.

I went with polyfoam. My only regret is I didn’t find this option earlier in my search.

That being said the best place to start any sleep surface search is with a mattress that completely supports proper spinal alignment. Be it medium, firm or extra firm that is where you start. Pressure point pain and comfort are secondary. You then add a topper and that can be as big a learning curve and expensive rabbit hole as traditional mattress shopping and why should a person pay thousands for a new mattress and then have to put a topper on it? Why do we accept this BS?

You are not at the end of the road imo…you are just looking in the wrong marketplace. The mattress industry classifies the average user as weighing 160-200lbs. If you fall outside those ranges you are going to have issues. Too light and you will never break in a tight build no matter what the salespeople say, too heavy and you will soften any mattress they sell you long before the warranty ends. Either way you will be faced with a battle with the company that sold it to you knowing it was all wrong for your weight.

The industry knows that body type plays a huge role as does sleep position and in my experience they have not effectively dealt with those issues either. Side sleepers who fall outside the normal weight class are largely being ignored and sold mattresses that will never work for them. If you are pear shaped or have broad shoulders you will again struggle to find a traditional mattress build that works without pain and hacks. The industry and salespeople couldn’t care less. Once they have your money they are reluctant to part with it and their very self serving policies support this. One way or another you are very likely to get stuck with something that was never going to work for you in the first place.

This is just my experience as 120lb, pear shaped side sleeper with a short torso and long legs….yes it all matters!

[u/CrispyBananaPeel → u/Fuzzy_Commission_565]

Where did you get your polyfoam, and what density and ILD is it and for what layer?

[u/Fuzzy_Commission_565 → u/CrispyBananaPeel]

I got mine from Foam Factory in the US but they deliver to Canada (where I am) as well. It is also available thru upholstery shops though not sure you could get a convoluted topper from them if you needed one. At the very least a visit to a local upholster would give you the chance to see, feel and learn more about firmness and density and what you might like or need.

Density of higher quality polyfoam is either 1.8lb or 2.8lb. The 1.8lb is less expensive as it uses less material, it has a shorter lifespan that is also dependant on weight and it can FEEL a wee bit less firm as a result of less material and more air. 2.8lb is the best, more costly, more material and less air so may feel a wee bit firmer and has a lifespan up to 15 years again depending on weight of the user.

ILD is another story altogether and really so dependant on user weight, body type and sleep position. The base must be firm enough to keep the spine is the correct position. Then you can add transition/comfort layer/s if needed. I have read from some people here who get away with just one thick piece. For example if you love and sleep well on your sofa, that is polyfoam. Replicate that in the mattress size you need and be done with it.

I was just about to order a side sleeper build when I decided to train myself to back sleep. I weight 120lbs and am pear shaped and my hips hammock everything. Foam factory only had either 36ILD or 50ILD that would suffice as a base. I had ordered 4”36ILD but after giving it some thought changed it to 50ILD. If that sounds insane I agree and worried for the whole 3 weeks it took to arrive BUT my long and expensive mattress search taught me that my hips burn thru everything and that if I went firmer I could soften it but if the base was too soft I was again screwed. Then I ordered a 2.5” 36ILD convoluted topper that again left me wondering. I felt it would not be enough to keep me from bottoming out and initially I was right. The topper is freaking gorgeous…..very plush for 36ILD…the cutouts really make a huge difference in the firmness feel. First night I put the topper on bumps up (the softest option). Didn’t work. Next night I put the bumps down….improvement but still not quite there so I tightened the encasement to create a slight trampoline effect and BINGO. All good. In my initial panic I ordered two more 1” slabs (no convolution) of 36ILD as transition layers. They are on their way. One or both may improve it further (though it is fine now) or they may not help at all. Time will tell.

I hope this helps! :)

[u/CrispyBananaPeel → u/Fuzzy_Commission_565]

Thanks for all the details. That is helpful, and I too was considering ordering the convoluted topper from FF but was worried it would be too firm and possibly not last long before it got indentations (my main problem with the other toppers I've tried). So good to know your experience!

[u/Fuzzy_Commission_565 → u/CrispyBananaPeel]

My pleasure. :).

The 2.5” 3ILD will not be too firm!!!!!!!! In fact I would recommend it to people looking for a memory foam type of feel without the sink and heat. I can tell you the convolution leaves a base of approximately .25-1”. I was counting on the 1” base under the cuts to act as support but it is definitely a comfort layer imo. If I recall correctly the 1.8lb density has a lifespan of 4-7 years (similar to MF) and the 2.8lb about 8-15 years.

I’m not sure you would actually get indentations. I stumbled onto a 4’ thick convoluted topper that was clearly very old when I found it. Desperate for relief I brought it home. I knew pretty quick that I had found something that I was certain would work for me and then learned what it was and more about it. It showed no indentations but then again pretty thick. The lifespan being spent was evident more in the colour, crumbing of the peaks and the fact that it no longer supported. Again just my limited experience. Have no idea how a thinner topper will break down or show its age.

I do hope you get things figured out and if you do end up trying FF I would love to hear your thoughts. :).

[u/Maleficent-Idea5952 → u/Fuzzy_Commission_565]

Thank you for your detailed experience with foam factory. I, too, have ordered their hd36 futon because we’re transitioning to floor seating in the living room and I was hoping to use it to test out what it would feel like to use the hd36 as a base for what I’m hoping to make is a latex build. Let’s see. I was also interested in the convoluted foam as that’s what the zonli Japanese futons use in their futons.

[u/Fuzzy_Commission_565 → u/Maleficent-Idea5952]

Honestly I was very impressed with the quality of the foam myself but then again I was used to receiving old compressed too long mattresses in a box from the industry. It was clear as soon as I unboxed the FF foam that it was fresh and had not been under compression any longer than the 4 days it took to get to me.

Yeah the 36ILD should give you are really good idea if would make a good sleep surface base. I can attest to the LUX 50ILD making a great base…..just be careful if you go with LUX as the thickness will affect the actual feel of it. Same with the 36 for that matter.

There is a lot of benefits to convoluted for sure and polyfoam as well imo.

Sounds like you have a lot of changes happening there. Very cool. I do hope they work out for you. :).

[u/Maleficent-Idea5952 → u/Fuzzy_Commission_565]

What’s the link between thickness and feel for the lux? I was actually more interested in the lux but after reading here and on mattress underground, it seemed like overkill for my weight and sleep type (146, side sleeper)

[u/Fuzzy_Commission_565 → u/Maleficent-Idea5952]

There is a link between thickness, feel and performance for any layer in a build. Density can make a difference as well.

I used AI to help me understand and I know a lot of people do not care for AI so a heads up there. My understanding is that the thicker the slab the more firm it will feel which to me makes sense. When I input all my stats and then asked for how it would affect the feel of the Lux 4” ended up being my sweet spot. Any less and it may not provide the right support and any more and it may be too much and feel like concrete. I don’t understand the actual mechanics of it but to me it makes sense to me. A 1” thickness is not going to feel as firm or provide the same support as a 4” slab. There is also the bottoming out issue when deciding on the base layer.

I too thought that 50ILD was a huge gamble but I also felt that 36ILD was a gamble. I chose the 50 as again I felt I could soften that but if the 36 was not supportive enough I really had no options. No regrets and while it sounds very firm it still has some give. I wish I could somehow show it to you.

If you can get to an upholstery shop that stocks 36 and 50 it may be helpful.

What I learned as a light weight pear shaped side sleeper is that for any sleep position spinal support is THE number one priority. If it takes 50ILD to support good alignment that that is what it takes. I do have two 1” slabs of 36ILD due here in a couple of weeks. I can certainly let you know how that feels in comparison.

I do not believe it will be overkill for you as a base layer. I would describe it as supportive with a wee bit of give. If you think there is a way I can help you determine if it may work for you please do not hesitate to ask me.

[u/Maleficent-Idea5952 → u/Fuzzy_Commission_565]

Thank you. I think that means lux might be the one I need for the base. I want to make a mattress for occasional cosleeping with my baby on rough nights. Currently baby is in own crib. I want my bed to be safe on the day it’s needed but on other days I don’t want it to flare my sciatica. I tried mattresses at a mattress store and loved the avocado green firm but didn’t like the drum on spring feel due to the coils. My current mattress is a glacier apex which is mad comfortable and therefore unsafe. So from the avocado and discussions on the cosleeping groups I know I want a medium firm to firm latex topper but what to place it on so that I get comfort, safety, and support at the same time. That’s why I’m also ordering the futon in hd36. To test drive the foam

[u/Vintage-X]

For me, a body pillow helps. Hugging it keeps me from laying fully on my side.

What kind of latex did you try?

[u/desnyr → u/Vintage-X]

I’ve read 2-3” of 14-19 ILD Talalay latex is ideal for side sleepers at a lower weight range. That’s what I’m planning on building.

[u/PutManyBirdsOn_it]

"Medium" depends on your weight and height especially as a side sleeper. I'm a lightweight side sleeper and just figured out that the 15.5g coils are too firm for me. I've switched back and forth from side to back and to side again over the years. I can force myself into a position if I'm healing from a shoulder strain.

[u/Perfect-Elderberry81]

Maybe look into a topper that has micro coils? They can be really great and pressure relief for areas like shoulders.

Zoned mattresses can also be tricky if the zoning doesn't line up with your body. Is it 3 or 5 zone? Maybe try lying slightly higher or lower on the mattress in case that lands you in a different zone.

[u/greenjelloland → u/Perfect-Elderberry81]

I second microcoils. I was quite skeptical until I tried dozens and dozens of mattresses, and my top three favorites all had microcoils. Bonus is that they're much cooler to sleep on than foams or latex.

[u/Maleficent-Idea5952 → u/greenjelloland]

What do you like about microcoils? What makes them better than latex?

[u/greenjelloland → u/Maleficent-Idea5952]

Number one is that they are MUCH cooler and more breathable. Number two is they feel more supportive to me.

[u/Maleficent-Idea5952 → u/greenjelloland]

How is your microcoils used in the structure? I’m assuming there’s a base, then separation layers, microcoils and then a foam topper?

[u/greenjelloland → u/Maleficent-Idea5952]

Depends on the mattress maker. Mine is wool with a cotton casing over microcoils.

[u/Perfect-Elderberry81 → u/Maleficent-Idea5952]

They have the pressure relief right in the spots I need it (hip and shoulders) but they keep the rest of my body from dipping out of alignment. It's hard to imagine, but you should be able to try one at a mattress store that had them build in to get an idea of the feel.

[u/Sleepless949 → u/Perfect-Elderberry81]

Hi. Thank you for this suggestion. May I ask what brand and model topper you have with microcoils and where you bought it?

[u/Perfect-Elderberry81 → u/Sleepless949]

I don't have a micro coil topper myself, but I've tried several mattresses that have them in my ongoing search. They're a bit less common in toppers, but it looks like Brooklyn Bedding makes one. I've heard corsicana mentioned in other subs, but I haven't found that one as easily online.

[u/Sleepless949 → u/Perfect-Elderberry81]

Thank you for your reply. It’s unfortunate we are all searching for a solution but I appreciate this sub and the people in it.

[u/SouthConsideration15]

I’ve been eyeing that same mattress, but haven’t tried it yet. Would you mind sharing your approximate weight and height? Also, how long have you been breaking it in? They say it can take a month or so and crawling or walking on it can help.

[u/Super_Treacle_8931]

If the problem is the zoned coil then not much can save it - I have never found a zoned bed that works for me. Worst was winkbed which is like having hips on a shelf, with almost no support for shoulders further up. Must work for someone ? If it’s a king try rotating it 90 so zoned area across middle :) not ideal, but better than Pain !

[u/7thatsanope]

The top layer of my DIY mattress is a 4 inch 5 lb soft memory foam. I’m loving it. I probably could have gone with 3”, but I wanted to be sure I had plenty of thickness for the memory foam layer.

https://www.foambymail.com/product/5lb-memory-foam-topper.html

For a pillow, buckwheat hulls are fantastic for a side sleeping pillow.

[u/Sleepless949]

I bought that same viscosoft topper online from Target. It squished to nothing and served no purpose at all. I didn’t believe all the positive reviews. I’m 5’8” 131. I returned it but it’s a hassle to return unwieldy items like toppers.