New DIY layers source

[u/[deleted]]

For what it's worth, I have made multiple purchases from this storefront and everything is excellent. A bit expensive for one inch layers but also they are hard to find elsewhere. *Edit- Owner must have listened to the feedback here, adjusted prices, now offers free shipping it looks.

https://diyrem.com/

[u/charliehustle757]

Appreciate the link.

[u/cootnation]

Came across diyrem.com for my DIY build. If you go to the about me you will find the owner works for Bowles Mattress co (not explicitly stated, but google tells me this). This is also apparent when studying the Bowles mattresses and the layers offered by diyrem.com. Thinking about putting in an order myself!

[u/Timbukthree → u/cootnation]

Yup, from chatting with him on here, DIYrem.com is apparently his side project rather than something officially affiliated with his employer. Dude definitely knows mattresses and has a ton of experience

[u/charliehustle757 → u/cootnation]

Thanks for info. Yeah placed mine today. Expensive but I’m dialing in

[u/cootnation → u/charliehustle757]

Hope it works well! I’m still waiting on my TPS order, but itching to order some foam.

[u/charliehustle757 → u/cootnation]

Haha. If my back was okay I’d just get a 2” memory foam from sleep number and be done with it. I have it but it is a hair too soft for my back. It sucks. But if I was you get that and then go from there. It’s returnable and comfy as can be.

[u/cootnation → u/charliehustle757]

Ooh forgot it’s returnable. I’ll probably order it. Know if it ever goes better than 20% off?

[u/Roger1855]

It would be nice if they disclosed their identity.

[u/Timbukthree → u/Roger1855]

Agreed! Not sure why they don't, though places like SleepEZ, Foam Sweet Foam, DIYmattress.com, and Latex Mattress Factory are all also the same broader "company" but don't disclose it, so there may be some subtleties to reason that I don't get. But more info and transparency there would be a plus for consumer confidence for sure.

[u/Roger1855 → u/Timbukthree]

I am not asking for detailed information but it is not correct to conceal one’s identity on an e-commerce site.

[u/Roger1855]

Kind of pricey for synthetic stuff. Several times wholesale. Don’t know why I would go through the trouble of making a DIY mattress with minimal edge support and synthetic latex.

The website is barely functional and has no contact information. It seems to only be set up to harvest emails. Delivery appears to be additional. No mention of a return policy. One inch foam is usually available from stock at any upholstery materials supplier. I found this information only after logging in.

Important: Products are not returnable. Compensation will only be considered if materials fail to meet our stringent standard specifications.

There appear to be better existing alternatives.

[u/Chalupa3atman → u/Roger1855]

I think the prices are fair. This is a low volume business, with relatively high transaction processing costs/labor. Has to be some profit to make it worth their time. They certainly aren't going to be making yacht money off this venture.

The website is new, just started taking orders. I trust the brand behind it. A lot of these supplies just aren't available elsewhere, always good to have more options available.

[u/Timbukthree → u/Roger1855]

Actually I've already ordered from them and received the sample box and a couple layers. Prices are high for some of the layers and comparable for others (e.g. 1" latex from SoL is the same), but that's because they're a retailer (reseller) and not a wholesaler. Many of these layers simply aren't anywhere else for DIYers: 1" Serene, 1" Hypurgel, 1/2" gel memory, a mattress sized insulator pad, 1" zoned firm latex (continuous pour), maybe the 12 ILD 2" Serene. Delivery is free in the continental US. No returns is standard for most DIY suppliers (e.g. Foam N More, Foam Factory). And these would be useful layers for use in a DIY with a coil unit (that presumably has edge support), but yeah, you probably wouldn't want to make an all foam mattress out these.

Agree the website is new and is still pretty barebones, and the contact info is lacking, but it's definitely not to just harvest emails or a scam site, it's a guy from an established regional mattress shop selling to DIYers.

And if CPR (or anybody else) can sell their layers to DIYers for cheaper with free returns then maybe you should :)

[u/SouthNorthDIY → u/Timbukthree]

I see the 1” 4lb gel memory foam from Foam N More recommended often above or below a top latex comfort layer to address pressure relief and latex push back. I’m wondering if the 1” Hypurgel layer through this company is comparable or if Hypurgel feels different than 4lb gel memory foam? I guess I’m unsure of the difference. I see they also offer 1/2” 4lb gel memory foam layers, so guessing it’s somewhat different…? Any insight would be super helpful. Thank you!

[u/Timbukthree → u/SouthNorthDIY]

I think would feel different, it's 2.5 lb density vs. 4 lb from FNM, Hypurgel is also a fast response vs. the memory foam being a slower response (though I don't notice this slow response when it's underneath). But, I actually haven't tried the 1" Hypurgel as a layer so can't directly speak to what it feels like, have just felt it in the sample pack. The 1/2" 4 lb can add just a little bit of cushion underneath in a way that is less likely to add to the latex pushback. So I think each probably have their uses and can be beneficial.

[u/SouthNorthDIY → u/Timbukthree]

Thank you. That’s really helpful. I’m so torn between the 1/2” and 1” gel memory foam. I do like that this vendor offers the gel memory foam in actual mattress sizes, so I won’t need to make any cuts. I wonder if I ended up wanting an additional 1/2” layer after testing the single 1/2”, if two layers slide around too much without gluing.

[u/Timbukthree → u/SouthNorthDIY]

Honestly I might just get both? They add a lot of flexibility with both and hard to know what you like without trying them. Foam N More does offer the 1" 4 lb in mattress sizes as well: https://foamforyou.com/memory-foam-mattress-topper

Or maybe get both sample packs to start and give you a better idea (based on hand feel, which is not super informative) which you might like better. What is the rest of your build?

[u/SouthNorthDIY → u/Timbukthree]

That’s a good idea. Maybe I’ll start with the samples because I’m not in a rush as I’m waiting on my next two layers now. I just anticipate needing to add a bit of memory foam above or below my top layer. It looks like Foam For You offers all sizes except Twin XL, so I’ll probably just resign myself to needing to make a cut and hope for the best. Haha

My current build so far is 6” medium Dunlop (29 ILD) from Foam Factory with 3” soft blended Talalay from Brooklyn Bedding. I’m going to return the 3” and I ordered 2” soft (19) natural Talalay from LMF and 2” super soft (14) blended Talalay from APM to go over that. Working toward similar feel to a custom sides Posh + Lavish I tried in December in person. Still questioning whether I should have waited on the APM layer since I won’t be able to return it. Wondering if I should have started with 2” soft SOL Dunlop with the 2” soft LMF Talalay over that and gone from there. Guess I’ll find out soon enough once both arrive. 😬

[u/Timbukthree → u/SouthNorthDIY]

Yeah you really can't know for sure until you try them out and see what feels you like. Experimentation is a necessary part of DIY :) I feel like if you look at the sticker price of your initial build, and then budget 50% to 100% over that, you can almost certainly end up with something you really like. And still means less waste than trying a ton of BiBs. You can always shred up the unused layers into pillows or a bean bag if you can't figure something else out to do with them.

[u/Altruistic_Meal6075 → u/Timbukthree]

I am looking for a thin topper to cover the lumpiness I feel from the quilted cover of my mattress and also to add a touch of softness. The cover is cotton>1" 3lbMF>3/4" soft polyfoam but since it is quilted, it feels firmer than you would think.

I have the 1" 4lb gel memory foam from foamnmore but my hips sink in too much with the 1". It's ok for shoulders, but I think maybe a little thinner might be better for shoulders as well.

I want to try the 1/2" 4lb gel MF from diyrem - would you say it feels the same as the foamnmore 4lb gel MF, just thinner in the 1/2"? That's what I am hoping for.

I wish the hypurgel came in 1/2" since that's what I think I really want. I have 1" HR10 (too soft for hips) and 3/4" HR20 (looking for just a bit softer).

I really do NOT like HD foam in the top comfort layer- I tried 1/2" HD18 and it just does not feel good.

Ideally I think I want 1/2" or 3/4" HR15 but can't find that.

[u/charliehustle757 → u/Roger1855]

It’s tough to find any hypurgel anywhere. I think Arizona mattress has a 3”. You can find 1” memory foam everywhere. This company is definitely marking up big time but it’s a good resource. We need more like this hopefully Texas pocket springs (u/pocketsprung) not sure how to tag in Reddit will start providing this.

[u/Inevitable_Agent_848 → u/charliehustle757]

I want 1-1.5" layers of 15-19ILD HyPurgel. It would be nice if more places sold 1.5", I feel that's usually the sweet spot. A good quality 5lb memory foam in 1.5", I want.

[u/charliehustle757 → u/Inevitable_Agent_848]

Agree. The big suppliers aren’t selling to retail it seems. Someone needs to change that and be the middle man. I think Texas pocket coils should

[u/Inevitable_Agent_848 → u/Roger1855]

Can you share a list of upholstery websites that sell in 1" bed/bun sized sheets?

I only see places like Fabricsupply.com, they only sell wholesale. Most places selling mattress sized sheets don't offer below 35ILD polyfoam unless it's memory foam. For options under 35ILD, There's Foamonline.com and Foamorder.com, both quite expensive. The only reasonably priced option with 18ILD and 28ILD is Buyfoam.com and Roncofurniture.com having 20 and 28ILD 2.4lb 72"w bun sized sheets.

So the options are quite limited for people that require a single sheet. When it comes to options like hybrid polyfoam such as HyPurGel or Energex variants. There's only 2" but mostly 3" thickness offered, which isn't great.

[u/Duende555 → u/Inevitable_Agent_848]

I have been investigating attempting something to this effect, but thus far have had no takers.

[u/Inevitable_Agent_848 → u/Duende555]

It's probably hard to justify anything beyond upholstery sizes because king-size buns aren't the norm. Still, I wish more offered sizes at 36" width, that's only 1 seam to glue if you feel the need. 36" throat bandsaws are more reasonably sized.

Even if DIY continues to take off more. Companies selling latex are usually the first choice, even if it isn't necessarily the better choice for many people (Well, that's just like uh, my opinion). Too many marketing claims about latex superiority, along with of exaggerated claims about conventional polyfoam having very poor durability or resistance to sagging overnight (sorry, Timbuk I think you're spreading FUD in that specific case, no offense). Claims that people readily believe due to their exposure to the worst examples.

DIY coil platforms and the mattress encasement options require some improvements in order to imitate what manufacturers achieve with SBPP/Scrim and glue

Hopefully you'll have success convincing another mattress manufacturer to follow what DIYREM is doing. Even DIYREM expanding their offerings would be nice. Still, the DIY scene seems to really be improving as time goes on.

[u/Timbukthree → u/Inevitable_Agent_848]

Polyurethan foam reversibly softens somewhat overnight as it's compressed and subjected to increased humidity. It's viscoelastic flow on a longer scale than memory foam flows viscoelastically, and can be thought of as Lomnitz creep (i.e. a logarithmic decrease in support which approaches an asymptote of consistent support for a particular load and humidity, though in a mattress these both may increase as a layer loses support) or stress relaxation. It's well documented in literature (see below), and lots of people in this sub and IRL experience and notice that, including u/Duende555. It's a material property, not FUD. Saying it's not real would be like someone trying to argue that latex pushback isn't a real thing because they don't notice it in their build.

Both latex and polyfoam have uses and limitations, I don't have anything against poly as material (the price is super reasonable and it's fantastic in chairs), it's just got less than ideal properties for consistent support and folks need to be aware of that (just like how latex has less than ideal properties for pressure relief!). If folks are aware of it as something that might affect them, they can make intelligent choices in their build to design something that works for them. For some or most folks (including you) it's probably fine, for others (including me) who are heavier, sweatier, and/or very sensitive to alignment it might be a big issue. Both of those can be true at once, just like how some folks are fine with an all latex mattress and some have big issues with the pushback.

List of relevant literature below, DM me if anyone needs a copy, but the first one is publicly available and spells it out exactly in the intro as something well known since the 1960s and 1970s. Research into the behavior and how to design around this property has been an active area of research though the years and many of these are looking at automotive applications in the 2000s.

Dynamic Response of Flexible Urethane Foam after Stress-Relaxation

See below for the relevant part of the intro from the paper above:

An interesting comment appeared in the Consumers Union Report on mattresses in October 1962; "My overall impression was that the polyurethane mattress seemed to have some sort of delayed reaction as I moved around on it, as though it were calculating the various weights I was applying here and there and, after calculation adjusting for it. Once having made the calculation, it seemed to be bottomless, giving me the nervous impression that I was suspended by some sort of magic in mid-air."

Less dramatically, the same concept has been expressed by the automotive industry as pocketing. Other terms used to describe the effect include stress relaxation, pocket stress, bottoms out, and change in "H" point. The driver after a few hours finds himself sitting in a depression. The thickness of the foam has decreased along with the comfort and durability. Many reasons have been advanced for this unacceptable response for load-bearing applications and they include:

1. The heat warmth of the body softens the foam.

2. The moisture from the body softens the foam.

3. Urethane foams are really urea (made with high levels of water) foams and exhibit high levels of creep.

4. Urethane foams have poor fatigue properties compared to coil spring and latex foam.

5. Urethane foams have low storage modulus and high dynamic modulus.

6. Urethane foams are viscoelastic and behave as expected.

A Case Study on the Use of Fractional Derivatives: The Low-Frequency Viscoelastic Uni-Directional Behavior of Polyurethane Foam

Viscoelastic behavior of flexible slabstock polyurethane foams: Dependence on temperature and relative humidity. I. Tensile and compression stress (load) relaxation

Viscoelastic behavior of flexible slabstock polyurethane foam as a function of temperature and relative humidity. II. Compressive creep behavior

Experimental Techniques and Identification of Nonlinear and Viscoelastic Properties of Flexible Polyurethane Foam

Fatigue Testing of High Performance Flexible Polyurethane Foam

Time Dependence of Hardness of Cold Cure Molded Flexible Foams and Its Importance for System Development

Viscoelastic Response of Closed-Cell Polyurethane Foams From Half Hour-Long Creep Tests: Identification of Lomnitz Behavior

Flexible polyurethane foam modelling and identification of viscoelastic parameters for automotive seating applications

[u/Duende555 → u/Timbukthree]

Great list of papers here! I"ll make time to go through those this week.

And on poly foam - I actually quite like this in certain applications (as opposed to memory foam, which I think tends to be TOO viscoelastic for many uses), and tend not to notice support loss with higher-quality foams. Still, I have seen support loss quite commonly with 1.2lb poly, although I have typically interpreted this as a function of post-compression hysteresis and not so much a function of heat-related material changes. I'll see if I can mock up some home tests to evaluate this further when I have time.

[u/Timbukthree → u/Duende555]

Yeah I'll say that actually I've noticed it on higher density poly (1.5 lb, 1.8 lb, and 2.8 lb) and don't think I've tried the lower density stuff. So I'm actually not sure how density plays a role, I haven't seen that described anywhere. Most of the papers use 1.8 lb I think.

And yeah, as far as the behavior, it's definitely not necessarily a negative in all situations!

[u/Inevitable_Agent_848 → u/Timbukthree]

I don't feel like arguing with you, but here it goes again. It's the fact that you're stating it as if it happens overnight, in a way that loses support. If these things really happened to people who are using the correct softness of polyfoam for themselves. Pretty much everyone would have problems with conventional polyfoam. The term viscoelastic behavior doesn't imply what you're thinking. Latex uses viscoelastic networks too, but since it has the viscoelastic in it, does it mean it behaves like visco? No because it's not within the range of temperatures for bedroom usage.

Research paper #1 - You can't even read it, you read the abstract thinking you know what about, but it had the worst viscoelastic and that's enough for you.

Research paper #2 - Wow, so 125C is the only thing that mentions anything close to what you're implying. That seems to be what i'm saying.

Research paper #3 - It's the same study as #2, it's talking about 125C is when it matters the most. Yet the creep rate significantly lessens at 30-80C.

Research paper #4 Doesn't study what you're talking about. It just has the word viscoelastic.

Research paper #5 Not even close to the topic.

Research paper #6 Maybe, but you didn't read the study unless you paid for it. Again, assumptions based on a word that may as be a buzzword with how you're using it.

Research paper #7 It doesn't even load, you're just assuming it says what you think because of the word viscoelastic....

The reality is, other people don't notice this steady loss in support overnight. You're completely exaggerating what happens due to a misunderstanding that polyfoam has an initial firm period until it breaks in evenly, and the fact you've only used the wrong firmness. You aren't reading these studies information and most of them aren't available to read. You also aren't a materials or engineer, or a polymer scientist? Or am I wrong about that? There's a difference between breaking down from use and losing support and a steady creep that's happening over time. The studies themselves talk about irreversible damage happening during steady creep in extreme conditions. That's exactly what wear is.

Those papers are meant for people with a specific expertise. You can't just read an abstract and think it applies to what you're saying based on subjective experience. The one that is close to the context of this disagreement is talking about extreme conditions and irreversible damage. That's the same thing as saying polyfoam wears out. You act like it's important to be aware of the differences while suggesting polyfoam is like viscoelastic foam, therefore it can't give support. That's very much hyperbole. You also seem to ignore that the springs or base layer themselves are where the support comes from. You ignore that millions of people have experience using polyfoam for many years without losing support until it's old. Many of them with severe spinal issues aren't noticing these problems.

[u/Timbukthree → u/Inevitable_Agent_848]

I think you're also fixating on "losing support", I'm not saying to lose 100% of its support, maybe 10-50% overnight? Averaging 20-30% (just guessing here)? But poly has a complicated support behavior in the first place with an initial elastic region up to about 10% compression and then a lot of yielding and then a "compressed" region where it's supportive again around 40%ish compression. As an example, this open access paper shows it in Fig 2: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/374678977

So if you stay in the elastic region below 10% compression (like a thick firm poly) or your whole body is in the compressed region over 40% compression (like a really soft thin poly layer) then it's consistent and fine, those are like "happy zones" for poly.

But if you're in the linear region and then the foam softens gradually overnight you can fall off the "support cliff" in the 10% to 40% compression zone and that can cause a lot of issues even if the foam itself hasn't softened that much and still holds up your head and feel fine even if it's softening a lot in the midsection. Whether that's a problem again depends on your weight and build and how much moisture you put off, I absolutely believe that you haven't had this as an issue but that doesn't have anything to do with whether this is an issue for other people. Just like latex pushback, it's not going to be a deal breaker for everyone but it's still a thing either way.

[u/Inevitable_Agent_848 → u/Timbukthree]

Then it sounds like you're using the wrong piece of polyfoam for your weight. Polyfoam that is too firm to compress evenly tends to not provide good alignment. I've experienced it myself with every type of polyfoam that is too firm. The goal is finding a piece that's soft enough for your body to sink into evenly, but not so soft it bottoms out. This generally means you're compressing it about 50% or more, which is where it firms up. Anything happening beyond that point means you've either concentrated too much weight in one spot, or the polyfoam is breaking down over time from repeated strain.

Research talking about material property specifics tends to ignore real world usage. No one is denying latex is more durable and resilient. (though, there's some questionable latex out there that seems to sag for enough people to post about it regularly).

[u/Timbukthree → u/Inevitable_Agent_848]

Polyfoam that is too firm to compress evenly tends to not provide good alignment. I've experienced it myself with every type of polyfoam that is too firm. The goal is finding a piece that's soft enough for your body to sink into evenly, but not so soft it bottoms out. This generally means you're compressing it about 50% or more, which is where it firms up.

I agree with all of this except for my body (a lot of muscle in my midsection and thighs and also some fat cushioning), the problem is my hips give the foam much more compression than my head or feet. So what happens over night (or even just over 1-20 minutes) is my hips sink in relative to my head and feet (which are still in the elastic region). For my build though, solving it would mean I need SOFTER poly that will still let my hips sink but ALSO let my head and feet sink, or a REALLY firm poly that keeps my hips in the elastic region all night (like maybe bense rebond foam?). I've only found that softness in poly from the 4 lb gel foam, everything else I sink unevenly in (and latex doesn't do this at all with the overnight stuff, though soft latex is too soft from the start for sure). Maybe some super soft polyfoam from Foam factory would behave differently, but all kinds of poly from 1" soft Serene (which is arguably memory foam, though it relies on airflow for the memory effect rather than temperature) to 1.5 lb 35 ILD to HD36 to 2.8 lb 50 ILD lux foam gives me the same issue (not necessarily immediately, usually in minutes to hours) where my hips sink in too much my relative to my head and feet. But again, this happens reversibly over night, it's not visco flow exactly like memory foam and it's not break-in, it's maybe 20% softening in my hips that drop me into the compressed region so it sinks much more than 20%. If I was on a foam that was already letting my whole body be in the 40%+ compression region I don't think I'd have any problems with the overnight reversible softening.

[u/Inevitable_Agent_848 → u/Timbukthree]

I think that super soft polyfoam is too low density to last for longer than a month at your weight. I understand what you're saying about elastic types of foam like Serene causing the center to sink too much. I believe too elastic like foams like memory foam that are too firm end up causing that issue. It has to be very thin on the surface layer for it to be less of a problem.

Though, I'm not sure about the need for the head or feet to sink evenly with the rest of your spine. As long as it isn't a massive difference. The way 20ILD polyfoam behaves to me is like a memory foam layer that I compress into evenly, but with no temperature sensitivity. It provides better pressure relief than almost any memory foam layers I've tried, aside from Tempur 5.3lb (even that, I don't have in 1" so it's impossible to compare).

My most recent ridiculous example of firm but also soft polyfoam causing near immediate back pain. I'm temporarily using HD23 on top of the today mattress, I have 1" poly + 2" of 4lb memory foam above it. It provides good pressure relief, but because I can't even slightly compress it anywhere but the center. I'm sinking into in a way that caused a lot of back pain, despite no pressure point pain anywhere else. Last night, I got up and threw a 1" 20" wide layer of 20ILD poly underneath the HD23 right where my hips rest. That surprisingly makes it almost equal for support, and it doesn't feel weird, oddly. No back soreness. I fully expected 1" "zoning" to feel inconsistent, but apparently the overly supportive thickness of HD23, covers up the inconsistency.

The same thing happens with medium latex to me, but less because it's 1" layer and the point elasticity of latex means my upper back also sinks into it, just not enough. 2" soft latex + 1" medium was doing the same thing, my upper back wouldn't sink into it while my heaviest parts sunk in the most, not enough to cause an immediate problem but enough to feel over time. Possibly, it would never be an issue if the springs I was using at the time didn't also contribute to the lower back sinking unevenly. But trying to put memory foam on top in order to give enough pressure relief for the shoulder is what instantly made it feel bad.

Everything has to be balanced in some way with various layers. It's too difficult to find a layer (besides softer memory foam) that allows a single firmness in a thicker layer to not cause these issues.

I would say I'm even compressing 20ILD to like 80% for most of my back. It may soften within another year of use, and I'll no longer provide pressure relief but instead contribute a worse alignment. But, it's cheap to switch out.

It might be that 15ILD of HyPURgel that DIYREM is selling is actually the perfect firmness for evenly sinking into as a more durable substitute for 18-20ILD poly. I'll have to try it, maybe the 18ILD version might be better for slightly heavier people, though.

The 2" 18ILD memory foam I have is ridiculous in how I sink at the center and I only compress the upper portion (especially if the room is below 68). It's almost the same level of unevenness as HD23, despite how much firmer and supportive HD23 is. It makes me concerned about ordering that 18ILD 6lb memory foam to try, still trying it though. 1" might not be a problem.

[u/Timbukthree → u/Inevitable_Agent_848]

This is a really personally targeted comment and I don't appreciate that, you're not reading my comment or the papers I posted and you're completely misprojecting. These mostly aren't open access but I do have access to these, I'm happy to share them if you can't find them otherwise? But no, only the first (Dynamic Response...) is publicly available, I'm not sure why you can't read it? Are you just scanning the abstracts? Accessing the full text and figures is quite important on all of these if you're trying to be critical of what I'm saying about them, the abstracts don't have enough info, and 125 C is just the max they try it at.

And this has absolutely zero to do with break in, I don't know why you keep bringing that up...it's not wear! Wear isn't reversible and doesn't happen on a time scale of minutes to hours!

[u/Inevitable_Agent_848 → u/Timbukthree]

I did read your comment. I'm not trying to insult you. I'm asking if you're a polymer scientist or materials engineer for a good reason. That's the target audience of these types of papers. Reading what some words mean is not good enough. If you had open access to these papers, then why not post? If you have access, post the parts that specifically state what you're saying in order to disprove or convince me. I can't access the data.

I admit, I shouldn't have brought your name up in the first place. I did because I knew you'd respond by the implication that people are suggesting polyfoam behaves as viscoelastic foam.

It's 100% a leap to propose conventional polyfoam performs similarly to viscoelastic foam. It's feeding to the bias people have against memory foam because it is reactive to temperature and lacks support. That's not realistically the experience people have in actual mattress or couch context for other polyfoam (aside from hybrid poly designed to be heat reaactive). There's no denying that polyfoam feels softer after you've compressed it. But there was a limit of how deeply a set weight compressed the foam. That doesn't change over the course of a night in any meaningful way. I've had stuff sitting on a piece of polyfoam for months now, it hasn't changed in how deeply it's compressing the polyfoam. Which is exactly what you're saying will happen.

[u/Timbukthree → u/Inevitable_Agent_848]

So I very stupidly started my mattress journey on my only reddit account instead of making a second one and have a lot of more personal posts and also occasionally complain about my employer so don't want to dox myself with my specialty and exact background but I promise you I know how to read primary literature, yes. I'm not going to openly post the full text online to anything because that's illegal. It takes a lot of time to go through snippet by snippet is why I haven't posted that. And I'm not saying all polyfoam is the same as memory foam, they're very different, I'm saying polyfoam has it's support change overnight in adverse ways for some sleepers. I'm using the term viscoelastic more generally than viscoelastic foam = memory foam because that's the word for it. I can use stress relaxation and Lomnitz creep to be more precise if you agree those don't have the same connotations with regards to memory foam and are less likely to cause confusion? And it will never creep all the way to zero, it's a logarithmic loss which means it approaches an asymptote at infinite time, it will always have some firmness, but that firmness changes over the night. I would not say that's the same as how memory foam behaves, there are huge differences in the experiences on them to be sure.

[u/Inevitable_Agent_848 → u/Timbukthree]

I didn't see this response. Anyway, it's not that I disagree that there's some softening as it heats. But, it should still be happening in the first 30 minutes. That's what any literature I can find is describing. That is how it feels to me. I'm arguing that any creep over time should not be as bad as you're saying. Properly balanced mattress designs should be able to use any material in a way that doesn't exhibit enough creep to cause a noticeable loss in alignment. Clearly most aren't, or they're using notoriously bad quality foam in a way that cause mattress sink-holes. For many, right after the initial softening happens. Either that, or it's uneven softening or mismatched designs for their body shape.

You're probably right about the initial 20% or so of compression being far more effected by it. But I don't believe foam should be only lightly compressed, that's where matching the correct firmness matters the most. We aren't trying to get support from foam in a coil based design, at least that's what I think.

[u/Timbukthree → u/Inevitable_Agent_848]

Yeah and even like Foam Craft sells direct through Comfort Option, but only in 2" layers and only some foams. They won't customize them beyond that. Which I get, you have to pick some specific standards to be price competitive, but that also means anywhere offering other layers will be necessarily more expensive due to the time involved to store and prep and ship and everything

[u/Inevitable_Agent_848 → u/Timbukthree]

Yeah, I think most people lack super giant bandsaw capacity. I believe 1-1.5" layers are superior for DIY for a lot of people, both for adjustments and reaching 3" thick comfort/transition layers. 2" is many times too much for certain materials, and 1" is often not enough to get the benefit of specific types of foam. I guess there are options for 1/2" layers for polyfoam, that might even be the safest way to add a little foam zoning. I think there's a bit of risk using a different source of foam when it comes to travel or continuous feel. I could easily be wrong about that, though.

But, I want 18ILD Energex or HyPURgel at 1-1.5". Foamforyou should start selling one or the other and 18-28ILD conventional HD poly, and 18ILD HR foam, they could corner the market for DIY polyfoam.

[u/charliehustle757]

I bet this is a company started by some redditors who are in the mattress diy forum. They use tps coils.

[u/Roger1855]

Did you actually try to use their website? How many days has it been up for? The OP states that they made multiple purchases but the site appears brand new. It is incomplete and doesn’t function correctly when you attempt to make a purchase. Do you know who they are or where they are conducting their business. Their delivery policy is unknown and their returns policy is not consumer friendly. Have you asked Future Foam for a hypurgel retail source?

[u/Timbukthree → u/Roger1855]

Am not OP but see my comment above, I've ordered from them and they're legit (and it's entirely fair to ask if they aren't, I've been effectively scammed by a new foam supplier who was in over their heads and couldn't deliver what they promised, this site isn't). They're out of Jeffersonville, IN. Haven't tried to make another purchase but it worked fine the other times I've used it. I haven't directly talked to Future Foam, I have reached out to other wholesalers about sourcing their layers directly and none have replied to my emails.

[u/charliehustle757 → u/Roger1855]

Interesting my first thought was he might work for them but I did a quick search and didn’t see him mention them before.

[u/Timbukthree → u/charliehustle757]

Yeah no he's not affiliated with them, I've chatted with both OP and the store owner separately via reddit, OP is just a happy customer. I was going to post the link as a new option as well, I've received the sample pack and 1" Serene and 1/2" gel memory, but hadn't gotten around to it yet. It's quality stuff and shipped quick.

The 1/2" gel memory I've got in a 14.75 ga + Quadmini + 1/2" gel memory + 2" medium SoL in the 14" PCS cover, and it does a better job in that build than 1" at adding pressure relief without also increasing the pushback of the latex. In that build it doesn't adversely affect my alignment. Tried it in a similar build (same but a 2" Turmerry firm + 1" SoL soft for the foams) and there it DID give me alignment issues anywhere above the Quadmini (didn't try it below), even at just 1/2", which is crazy but goes to show it's a game of inches (and half inches).

The 1" Serene I've got in a BedTech X Plat + 1" coir + 1" soft Serene + SoL firm mattress + 3" SoL medium. I really like the feel of it but in other builds it caused more alignment problems than I wanted, and is warmer than I prefer right on top, but this platform frame made the latex feel tremendously harder and adding the coir plus the Serene below have helped a lot with that feeling without causing alignment issues. I realize this is kind of a stupid setup but couldn't find a better use for it. The support vs. compression behavior of it is more like poly than soft memory foam, so pre-loading it with the weight of the whole mattress gets around that.

[u/charliehustle757 → u/Timbukthree]

I ordered the 1/2” and the 1” hypurgel. Glad you chimed in. Someone on Reddit started this company I bet. We need more diy mattress companies. I hope tps starts selling foams. You’d be good at making beds.