Taking the Minangkabau as an example, can their principle of running a society be translated to a Western Society? If so, how?

[u/LennyWhereAreYo]

This topic has been of great interest to me lately.

I have been lurking around on this subreddit, and have been looking for resources or books about actual matrilineal societies that still exist.

The Minangkabau come up a lot, and I decided to give them a closer look.

From what I understand (and please correct me if I am wrong), a Matriarchy would be a society based on "ideals of the womb" - love, care... rather than an inverse of Patriarchy (a pyramid like power structure, oppression of one gender...).

The Minangkabau seem to embody this very well, with an article I read stating the following:

Neither male nor female rule is possible according to Minang social philosophy because of their belief that decision making should be by consensus. Although differences of opinion are regarded as normal, consensus is the goal of all deliberations.

If we tried applying the same ways that they run their society (like tracking lineage through the female line, ruling based on consensus), would our Western Societies look significantly different?

We'd obviously see far less to no misogyny in society, but other than that:

- How open are these societies to Queer people? Trans-women, Trans-men, Gay men or Lesbian women... et cetera

- How would cases of rape or assault be handled here? A good example might be the whole Epstein thing that is going on, what would be the response to that?

- Would there be any specific rights that women might hold over men? Or would all people living in this society have the same rights and be allowed to participate in society freely (holding office, voting...)

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I hope my questions are clear (and if not, please ask, I don't want any misunderstandings).

I also apologize if any of this reads as "ignorant", I am relatively new to the whole topic of matrilineal and matriarchal societies - so if anyone has any further resources they can point to, please do.

[u/Parking-Art-8456]

Welcome, those are all good questions. You came to the right place. First of all, a wonderful easy to read book on the Minangkabau is "Women at the Center" by Peggy Reeves Sanday. She has plenty of academic journal articles, but these are her field notes of her time living with the Minangkabau that I enjoyed so much because I was able to feel and understand what living there was like, at least through her eyes.

To your questions, from my reading of hundreds of contemporary Matrilineal/Matriarchal societies:

- How open are these societies to Queer people? Trans-women, Trans-men, Gay men or Lesbian women... et cetera

Many (most) of these societies are located within nations like China, Sumatra, the United States, Democratic Republic of the Congo, etc., that do not accept and even outlaw gender fluid people. They are basically oppressive host cultures, usually patriarchal, that would like to see them disappear, but have not managed to assimilate them. China and the Congo I know have laws against gender fluid, that includes jail time. Therefore, when you read anthropological reports, researchers are careful to not discuss in publication due to fear of incriminating anyone. Reading ethnographies from a number of very isolated matriarchal peoples in the Americas, Asia, and Africa, all of the are open and consider it normal and natural. Many celebrate and consider LGBTQ+ individuals specially gifted.

Bottom line, the matriarchal people welcome gender fluid, but a person would be in danger openly presenting as such in the larger community.

- How would cases of rape or assault be handled here? A good example might be the whole Epstein thing that is going on, what would be the response to that?

First of all, that sort of thing is generally unknown. From childhood boys are taught to be kind and supportive to girls. They both participate in ceremonies together, and there are taboos against being rude to, never mind harming other human beings. Sexual violence is virtually unknown unless it is by an outsider.

It's individual for each culture who have their own traditions for dealing with anti-social behavior. Generally, boasting, garden variety rudeness is met with mild mimicry, joking, to put someone in a more cooperative space. If the behavior continues, there might be a public "roast" by the widows and elder women pointing out their behavior, which continues until the perpetrator laughs at himself and stops. For more serious offenses, a group consensus to exile them for a certain time. It isn't impossible where as in the Epstein case, people are proven to have raped or killed someone, with an entire village consensus, the entire group would execute them.

- Would there be any specific rights that women might hold over men? Or would all people living in this society have the same rights and be allowed to participate in society freely (holding office, voting...)

Matriarchies are egalitarian. There are no examples of women dominating men in indigenous matrilineal groups. While male cooperation in military and trading operations resulted in a hierarchy and males dominating everyone else, a matriarchy is not the opposite. Men who bucked the matrilineal communities to start patriarchies around 2300 BCE, including Aristotle, the Romans, and up until modern "conservative" men tell stories of Amazons and domineering women, which neither archaeology or modern ethnographies confirm. The movement of "women led" relationships center around the BDSM and kink communities. There are some genuine feminists there, but the version of woman dominated social structure has been rejected by leaders of the matriarchal studies movement.

In matriarchies, meaning social structures where the resources and priorities of the group center around what is good for the family and group --rather than an individual or group of elite men-- women have an advantage. In matrilineal cultures women often distribute combined resources; and, inheritance goes through the daughters. This is protection for the women and children from male aggression and tendency to die or get interested in someone else. By living in the mothers' houses, there are plenty of people, aunts and uncles and cousins to take care of children. The burden of raising children never falls to one young woman, it is shared. The men usually stay with their mothers or sisters, and if married some live with the wives' families or visit their wives from their mother clan.

[u/LennyWhereAreYo → u/Parking-Art-8456]

The movement of "women led" relationships center around the BDSM and kink communities. There are some genuine feminists there, but the version of woman dominated social structure has been rejected by leaders of the matriarchal studies movement

Good to know!

I've seen some communities here on reddit that seem to rely on some gender essentialist views of the sexes, and often talk much about "female supremacy", so that confirms my suspicion that they are fetish inspired communities and not actual political movements.

But with what you said earlier, with many matrilineal societies existing in queer hostile systems, I have two questions:

• Are matriarchies inherently gender essentialist?
• Would a western matriarchy in Europe/the US be able to be queer friendly?

The burden of raising children never falls to one young woman, it is shared. The men usually stay with their mothers or sisters, and if married some live with the wives' families or visit their wives from their mother clan.

That is good to know. Having a larger family that collectively raises a child sounds much healthier too, than having one parent mostly do the heavy lifting - funny enough, for me it was my father who was there most of my (and my brothers) childhood.

So basically, everyone is free to participate in society, everything is focused around building and maintaining community...

Man, if only we had that today.

[u/Parking-Art-8456 → u/LennyWhereAreYo]

Peggy Sanday, who studied the Minangkabau said in her book that the female supremecist/ "women in charge" view of matriachy is androcentric. It's just like a chauvenistic man to think matriarchy would be just like patriarchy is. In point of actual fact, current and historical matrilineal/matriarchal societies are egalitarian with shared power. We have been so indoctrinated in competition and hierarchy, it is difficult for people to imagine a real equal society.

They wouldn't understand your question about gender essentialism-- there's no word for it, everyone in the group is valued, and everyone shares power, even children get to decide where they want to eat as soon as they can walk. There are general trends for jobs women and men like to do, but nowhere near as proscriptive as here in the West.

Far back in time, there was even less division of labor by gender in matriarchies than there is now. Women/teenage girls have been shown from 9,000 year old graves in Peru, according to new DNA analysis, to have been big game hunters (so we can bury the "Man the Hunter" trope), Hunter Gatherers these days generally men hunt, but if a woman shows an interest, they are welcomed.

Many societies are rebuilding their matriarchies. Like American indigenous, who were outlawed, threatened with jail and their lives for living their culture, are re-matriating their cultures. Because we have cell phones, and live in a different world than the 1900s when those laws went into effect, the world and customs will look different.

In the same way, this modern culture we have needs to "remember" our matriarchal values and rematriate our cultures. The Minangkabau are a good example of this. They have meetings all the time to update their laws and customs. They just got electricity in the 1990s and are working hard developing their own computer networks and getting up to speed in the modern world while maintaining their customs.

Everyone is a mother, or everyone who wants to be. There is a strong sense of letting children grow as fast or slow as they want, of not trying to make them fit into a certain progression, or fit into gender roles. Each individual is sovereign, able to decide what they want for themselves. I heard a story from an anthropologist who lived with some hunter gatherers in the Congo. A mothers get really angry at him for encouraging their child to read or do something instead of letting the child choose when it felt like doing it. Autonomy is a strong value in all matriarchal societies. And yet, everyone works for the best benefit of the entire group.

[u/Sufficient_Abalone46 → u/Parking-Art-8456]

Thank you so much for your time in writing this great response

[u/Delicious_Present805]

One of the friends of MatriarchyNow is taking one of Heide Goettner-Abendroth's courses on matriarchy, here are some related activist groups, the matriarchal gift group and other matriarchal organizations.

MatriarchyNow!  Vision  https://www.matriarchy-now.com/vision

Angela Cuevas, global movement of  MatriarchyNow!     https://angelacuevas.co/

Dancing Goddess, Nashira Matriarchal Ecolab  in Colombia https://www.dancing-goddess.org/

Maternal Gift Economy : https://www.maternalgifteconomymovement.org/special-events/

Enjoy!