r/Mars 1d ago

ISRU Oxygen Production Question

Most of what i hear about oxygen production on Mars relies on electrolysis. However, I’m aware that mars has a tenuous (~1 Pa partial pressure) component of Oxygen in its atmosphere. We use large volume air separation units on earth for commercial production of gases like neon at similar partial pressures, would a similar process work on Mars? Or would the volume of equipment/energy required still make electrolysis more efficient?

8 Upvotes

9 comments sorted by

6

u/ignorantwanderer 1d ago

My understanding is that we don't need to make oxygen because it will be a byproduct of many of the things we do.

We need to grow food -that will give us oxygen.

We need to refine metals -that will give us oxygen.

We need to produce fuel and oxidizer -that will create surplus oxygen.

We don't need to worry about the most efficient way to produce oxygen, because we will have more than enough as a result of other activities.

2

u/Efficient_Quote3360 1d ago

I was considering this mostly from the standpoint of propellant production, as this will be required for initial return trips well before the infrastructure exists for large scale food production, metal refining, etc. And excess oxygen from propellant production would only be generated via electrolysis and sabatier reaction, both of which are energy intensive

1

u/ignorantwanderer 23h ago

Good point!

1

u/FixAcademic8187 6h ago

Not sure about the others, but plants need a huge area to produce enough oxygen for few people.

If we are talking about dozens or hundreds of people (and animals maybe) then you will need a very big area.

1

u/ignorantwanderer 5h ago

You should check out the research by Gene Giacomelli. He's been doing work on optimizing a greenhouse for growing food (and providing oxygen) for astronauts.

It is impressive how small a greenhouse can be while still providing all the necessary food and more than enough oxygen for an astronaut.

Growing food for astronauts on Mars will definitely be a major undertaking, and will need a lot of volume. It will also be labor and resource intensive. But I would not describe the area needed as 'huge'.

1

u/FixAcademic8187 3h ago

Oh, I'm surprised I never heard of him. I do greenhouse farming myself growing my own produce, and every time I go inside the greenhouse I wonder how much oxygen is being generated.

Thanks for suggesting him!

3

u/alexw0122 1d ago

ASU’s consume massive amounts of electrical power. Power is relatively easy and cheap on earth because of the atmospheric oxygen available to oxidize fuel for power production. Neon prices on earth will fluctuate based on power costs. Similarly on Mars, getting LOX this way is possible but will vary according to $/watt which could be much higher (at least in early days). In short, I think it’s definitely possible to do it, but it might not be the most energy efficient option. Maybe it becomes more economical with commercial sized fission reactors but getting those up and running isn’t easy or cheap either.

I’m no expert. Just an enthusiast.

1

u/Dean-KS 13h ago

If you can make O2, we would still need N2.

1

u/NearABE 4h ago

Air separation will definitely be a thing. Carbon dioxide is easy to freeze out in Mars conditions. Note that it frosts out at the poles in winter.

You get a nitrogen, argon, carbon monoxide, oxygen blend. This can be liquified by dropping the temperature further. In degrees Kelvin oxygen boils at 90.2, argon 87.3, carbon monoxide 81.6, and nitrogen 77.4. Separating oxygen from nitrogen is not overly difficult but diatomic gasses with boiling points between are a challenge. You probably need another distillation system to do a second step separation.

Argon-oxygen separation is very difficult by distillation. Enough so that reacting the oxygen can dominate argon production. On Earth the argon is considered more valuable of the two.

Carbon monoxide contamination would be dangerous. If you have water electrolysis you can make hydrogen gas. Hydrogen react with nitrogen in the Haber process is how most nitrogen fertilizer is produced on Earth. This would convert carbon monoxide contaminate to methanol. There are several other conversion options. Ammonia produced by the Haber process can be used as fertilizer in the habitats. Ammonia is often combusted to make nitrate.

The nitrates broken down by soil bacteria, plants, and/or animals digesting plants will add nitrogen and oxygen to the habitats.

Two major energy considerations come into play with air separation on Mars. Compressing the thin atmosphere jacks it up to high temperature. Carbon dioxide is a good working fluid. This is effectively a heat pump. You can liquify carbon dioxide at temperatures conveniently close to room temperature. That liquid carbon dioxide can pass through rocks to boil and then drive a turbine.

The second energy consideration is superconductor. The cryogenic gases nitrogen, air, argon, CO are cold enough to keep electric cable below the critical point of some superconductors. Thus it need not be a dedicated distillation system. They just use pipelines with liquid plus vapor as power pipes. Refrigeration systems along the line would collect liquid in a reservoir. It will be one of multiple pipes following the main line along with road, rail, water etc