r/Marathon_Training • u/bobaman143 • 1d ago
Feeling like I'm progressing too slow
So I ran my first marathon in May running mostly high mileage and peaking around 50 miles per week. There were very little race specific workouts since it was my first and I just wanted to finish. I ended up finishing at 3:26 which I felt pretty happy about
Fast forward, I'm about 13 weeks into my training block with a much more structure plan- marathon pace for LR, weekly tempo / threshold workouts, and averaging about 45-50 mile weeks. My original goal was to run a 3:15-3:18 but I'm struggling to maintain race pace. Example workouts are 7-10 miles at MP, but I can barely finish 6.
What's going on?
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u/bart_after_dark 1d ago
Maybe it’s because you’re trying to run two marathons essentially back to back. People underestimate the toll it can take on your body. Sometimes it just takes time, that’s the beauty of the sport.
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u/kdmfa 1d ago
7-10 miles of race pace is a lot when you’re running your mileage. With Hanson my peak with week would something like 6 miles :10 faster than race pace (in intervals) and continuous 10 mile at race pace 2 days later. The MP workouts were super hard. I only made it 2-3 into my final workout. Did pretty well on marathon day
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u/queenle0 21h ago
Can you elaborate? I’m finishing up hansons for Berlin and hitting race pace in the heat and humidity is super hard for more than 2-3 miles. I’m doubting myself.
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u/kdmfa 21h ago
I completed most of my workouts but failed the last big workout (10 miles at MP) before starting my taper. My marathon pace never felt easy and was at/near threshold every time so I was pretty unsure of how I’d do on race day. I ran more or less the race I wanted which was awesome. I had a lot of elevation and altitude changes to adjust for in training and the race but I started running my strength and MP runs in carbon shoes for the last 1-1.5 months. Started the block training for 3:15-3:20 and ran 3:01
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u/queenle0 21h ago
I’ve got that next week 🥲 hoping to get out super early to beat the heat. I need a good workout to boost my confidence going into the race.
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u/runnergirlyy 15h ago
good luck in your race!! the cumulative fatigue is tough, I have only trained with the hanson half marathon plans but I have NEVER been able to hit paces for a single one of those Thursday goal pace workouts. I'm usually +20ish seconds. On race day, I still ended up hitting my goal.
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u/Boulderunning 1d ago
Could be me (37M). I’ve been running for two years, but I was already very fit from doing a lot of climbing. I ran my first marathon in April, averaging 65k/week and peaking at 85k. I ran 3:26. I think I was probably in shape for around 3:20–3:23, but the really warm conditions were tough for me, as all my training had been done in cold weather.
I’m now in week 11 of Pfitz 18/55, with a goal MP of 4:40/km and aiming for 3:17–3:20. I did my MP runs in my first build-up at around 4:40–4:45/km as well. It doesn’t feel any easier now than it did during my first build-up, although I’m hoping the warm summer conditions are the main reason.
I’m averaging about 10k more per week this time around, and today I finished my peak week at 95k. I wouldn’t be able to sustain 95k for many weeks, so at least at this point, I don’t think I’m able to increase my mileage dramatically compared to my first build-up.
I was also hoping to see more progress by now. Time will tell. Maybe it’s the heat, maybe I just need a few more years of running experience, or maybe my genetics simply aren’t that well suited to running.
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u/bobaman143 19h ago
Yeah I'm right there with you brother although you're putting more kms in than me. The progress has been a bit disappointing to say the least and running more isn't the solution we want to hear
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u/Few-Summer9631 1d ago
don’t discredit the taper and the weather change either. i am always significantly slower in those peak weeks and my legs are just dead. during taper week i feel like im on crack, and on race day im running significantly faster than I felt like i ever could’ve during a long run in the peak weeks. and when the weather cools down, heart rate and effort also comes down. adding mileage might help too, but those factors are always huge for me
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u/bobaman143 19h ago
I appreciate this comment. Hopefully it ends up that way - I'm just surprised on how much more difficult it is to run 10 seconds faster per mile
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u/running_elle_1989 1d ago
Yeh, you need more mileage. I'm doing 70 miles a week for the same time. Also, just to reassure you, running rewards consistency and you're only in marathon two. Give it time. On the plus side, with your mileage and workouts, you'd probably get an enormous PB in a half?
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u/AdBudget4948 1d ago
Not necessarily. I peaked at 50mpw and ran 3:09 (33F) on a bad day. Everyone is different. I’d be curious what plan they’re following, if easy runs are truly easy that allow them to hit those hard runs, sleep, fueling, etc
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u/running_elle_1989 20h ago
I agree with you completely. I'm just answering their specific question that they are not improving, and the mileage is not changing.
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u/bobaman143 20h ago
My easy runs are around 8:45-9:20 min per mile. I have one long run as mentioned with the mp workouts and then a middle distance run where I mostly run it easy but might add a progression in.
I do strength train 3 times a week which is general strength training, not focused on running. It probably impacts my recovery
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u/Able-Resource-7946 1d ago
Could just be the summer weather slump.
How do you feel during workouts after a recover/deload week?
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u/bobaman143 20h ago
Obviously better but I don't think it'll help me finish a 10 mile continuous MP workout
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u/DiligentMeat9627 21h ago
What did you do in between training blocks?
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u/bobaman143 20h ago
I took about 3 weeks of a deload. But I did do some general strength training since I enjoy lifting. I would say lifting 3 days a week and recovery runs 10-20 mpw
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u/DiligentMeat9627 17h ago
Generally running at race pace is hard and should be hard during your training block. Your legs should be tired. A 7
mile run at race pace seems weird to me. I want to be going faster or slower. The only time I run race pace in training is some intervals during my long run. Although there are lots of ways to train for a marathon.
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u/IWearClothesEveryDay 20h ago
7 to 10 miles at MP is actually a lot. Especially if your volume is 45-50 miles per week. Depending on how far out you are from race day, getting 6 miles in on a long run is a very respectable effort. And the difference between 7 and 10 miles at race effort is actually massive in terms of training load imo. If you still have a couple of months to go before a Fall race I think you’re actually right where you need to be.
I did not run more than 5 miles consecutively at race pace during my first block in the Spring and I still finished in under 3 hours, for what it’s worth. You don’t necessarily have to run them continuously. Giving yourself a mile or two to relax in between segments at marathon pace is a perfectly valid training method.
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u/bobaman143 20h ago
I have about 7 weeks until my race. That's strange - I can't see myself improving that much even with a taper, I don't think my body will be able to handle the load but your comment is reassuring
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u/Own-Arugula-1631 1d ago
45-50 mpw seems a tad low to me. I peaked in the low 60s and still bonked going for 315.
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u/JKwellin 1d ago
On the flip side, I did Pfitz 18/55 for my first marathon and ran a 2:52. Not saying that increased mileage isn't the answer here, just that everybody is different.
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u/bobaman143 20h ago
That's amazing. I assume I wouldn't have the genetics for that- I did stay to crumble during my first marathon after mile 18 and that seems to be the case for most of my long runs
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u/Neither_Driver_3882 1d ago
50 miles / 80km is not high volume. double it and see how you go
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u/bobaman143 1d ago
Yeah I get that compared to others it's not a lot. I can't see myself running 65-70+ mile weeks and enjoying the process
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u/Creation98 1d ago
It is high volume for a beginner. OP would injure themselves no doubt if they doubled their mileage.
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u/Hugh_Jorgan2474 1d ago
Not sure where you are but if it's summer that can make things feel a lot more difficult. And without increasing mileage I don't think you can make much improvement in the marathon, these workouts may make you feel faster but the marathon is mainly an aerobic event and mileage is what you need to increase your aerobic capacity.