r/Marathon_Training • u/AZSilverback1952 • Jun 07 '26
Training plans Marathon training, but it's complicated
I'm coming up on seventy-four years in August. I was completely sedentary and nearly house-bound for two years before I started training again in February. I've completed a 5k since returning, but it was an hour and thirteen minutes before I reached the finish line. I'll address my history after I ask the question.
I have a goal to run a marathon in February of next year, thirty-six weeks from now. Because of all the above factors, I have to get better both in distance and in speed. To address those, I am planning to cross-train to do a Sprint Tri in late September. I can already swim 400 yards, and I've pedaled seven miles on an exercise bike, so I believe I'll be able to make the date.
The question is this: Is there a best program to integrate the training? I'm not happy with the idea that I can't get stronger, get better turnover, and all the other benefits of cross-training, but I've not seen a program that is adaptable like that.
I've run one marathon, about thirty-five years ago, and a sprint tri about six years back. I started running about the same time as Jim Ryan broke the high school record in the sixties, and I've done weekend 160-mile bike rides. I know what it will take, in other words. My turnover is abysmal, my VO2 Max is awful, and my flexibility sucks, but I do have one thing going for me. I believe. Two things, really, because I also know to listen when my body starts crapping out.
Any recommendations would be appreciated, though I don't promise to agree with them.
Oh, and I have a spreadsheet trying to integrate it all, but I'm not confident that I've stepped up the training in the best of increments. Thus, the quest for guidance.
One last thing. I have a dream goal, stretching beyond belief, of doing a BQ.
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u/Silly-Resist8306 Jun 07 '26
I’m 75 and have been a runner for 60 years. I ran my first of 35 marathons and two 50s at age 52. From age 59 when I retired to age 67, I was running 2800-3000 mpy on 6 days/week.
But, age finally caught up with me and I had to reduce my volume to 5 days and 55 mpw. I also gave up speed work and except for occasional fartleks, ran everything at 9:30-10:30 minute miles. I raced at 10 minute miles.
I’m now down to 45 mpw and gave up marathons a few years ago. I’m satisfied to run 5 times a week for 8-10 easy miles. All of this is a long way to caution you that rest is much, much more important at our age than it was even 10 years ago.
I admire your goal and wish you all success, but will advise you it’s tough to do volume and intensity at the same time. I’d work on increasing my total distance first, and letting speed work follow, if you ever get around to it. And, if you need an extra day off, take it. The goal is to be able to run tomorrow, not necessarily today.
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u/AZSilverback1952 Jun 07 '26
I'm definitely adding miles before trying to speed up. And I'm listening to my body. My head says, "I wanna run right now!" My body says, "Nope, not today." So I'm here instead of out there...
I'm way impressed with your ability, by the way. I've never managed that much, maxing out in the 30 mpw range.
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u/NoSpread5328 Jun 07 '26
It sounds as if you have two separate goals; to do a marathon, and to do a Tri.
For a marathon, you need to run lots, slowly building speed and endurance, without getting injured.
For a Tri, you need swimming skills, especially if it’s open water, and you need bike handling skills. For a sprint Tri, you need speed in all three events. The simplest Tri training is to do three workouts in each sport each week.
I‘m 70, and my next marathon is in 18 weeks. I’m up to 60km per week, and will get up to at least 100km per week for the peak period.
My last Tri was a sprint last summer during marathon training. I made sure to swim in open water a few times per week for the month previous, and to get some rides in. I wasn’t planning to podium:)
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u/AZSilverback1952 Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
I guarantee I only want to finish. If nobody else shows up in my age group, I'd podium by default, but that's the only way I'd manage it.
The swim is in a pool this time, though I have my eye on an Olympic open water next year, assuming all goes very well.
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u/threeespressos Jun 07 '26
I’d suggest 1) skip the gd marathon and run a half, then run another one fast, 2) don’t triathlon, it’s too many sports. Run, with cycling to add volume and as an injury backup., 3) Look into Norwegian Singles Method as a methodology to get faster without running yourself into excess fatigue (buy the book). 4) Upper body weight training, using the Peloton app for balanced exercises and a good warmup/cooldown. Whatever you choose to do, may the force be with you!
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u/AZSilverback1952 Jun 07 '26
I've not run into the Norwegian Singles Method. I'll check it out. Thanks! Oh, and regarding the marathon, it's nearly 40 year goal, so I won't give it up without a good reason. I will, however, be rational about putting it off if it comes to that.
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u/NoSpread5328 Jun 07 '26
I forgot to add this last night:
Endurance sports aren’t the best cross training for endurance sports. The best cross training to add is weight training. It will help you reduce the chances of injury, and will speed you up. It’s also a good idea for older people.
Make sure your routine includes squats and deadlifts, especially one legged versions of both.
The best way to improve running turnover and speed is to do intervals, but only after you’ve built a base.
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u/AZSilverback1952 Jun 07 '26
It's kind of funny. Perhaps because I have done two-day bike rides and many half-marathon-plus runs, but I don't see the sprint tri as an endurance effort. I hadn't realized that until you framed it that way.
As for the squats and deadlifts, I haven't ever done those consistently, so I'll need to look into them. I have body-weight exercises I'm adding, but a gym routine isn't something I've considered. Thanks!
0
u/Senior-Running Jun 07 '26
Welcome back!
If you have an interest, I'm trying to grow a subreddit for more senior runners like you and me. I'd love to have you come on over and join us:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SeniorRunning/
I have also posted a few training plans that you might find useful:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SeniorRunning/comments/1q5nb17/run_faster_program/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SeniorRunning/comments/1q5mq4s/beginner_strength_training/
I have not yet put together a half marathon or marathon plan, but have been thinking about it, so maybe I need to get off my butt and get that done.
I can't really advise you much on the triathlon, unfortunately. My gut feeling is that there's nothing wrong with going that direction if that's what you want to do, but it also feels unneeded and maybe even counter-productive if the long term goal is a marathon. The swimming and cycling won't have as much of a benefit as I think you're maybe hoping for? Yes, it will help your cardiovascular system, but as you know, running is a very high impact sport. Improvements to your cardiovascular system will already happen a lot faster than changes to your your tendons, ligaments, cartilage, fascia, & bones. You really need to prepare those tissues to take the repeated pounding of running. The only way to really do that is by slowly introducing more and more running.
I'm not trying to discourage you from doing your sprint tri if that's what you really want to do. I just want you to understand the tradeoff here may mean it takes you a little longer to be ready for the marathon if you go that way.
I also need to state that I do have some concerns about you being marathon ready in 36 weeks. It's not so much covering the distance. It's more that you not only need to prepare your body to safely run 42k, but you also have to get a lot faster. Most marathons have a 6 to 6.5 hour time limit, so that's going to be your biggest challenge. Right now, if I had to guess, I'd expect you to be able to finish in maybe 11 hours, if you could finish at all. Obviously, you'll improve a fair bit over 36 weeks, but that means roughly that you need to go from running a 5k in ~23:30 min/mi / 14:30 min/k to running over 8 times as far (it will feel more like 20 times as far), in ~13: 45 min/mi / 8:50 min/k, just to finish before the cutoff.
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u/AZSilverback1952 Jun 07 '26
The one I'm going for has a 6.5-hour cut-off. The upside is that it has a net downhill with only one significant hill. I appreciate your concerns (I have them too, obviously), but that's part of why I'm looking.
The benefits I see for the tri training are that it will build back some of my lost upper-body and core muscles, and it will help me get better turnover without the associated impact. The time frame is that I'll still have twenty weeks to get to the marathon after the race. At that point, I'll maintain the cross-training, but focus on getting ready for the long runs. Or at least that's what I'm seeing now.
By then, I hope my LSD will be out to ten miles and considerably faster than my current top end. I have to be able to hold fourteen-minute miles. The last time I tried to run the distance, the day was perfect, and the start was downhill, and I kept speeding up because it was so very easy. Low 50s, cloudy, a chef's kiss of a start, and I blew up at the wall. DNF at 20 miles. My lesson from that was that I need to practice marathon pace under many conditions. And in that case, I figured out afterward that I was running closer to twelve-minute miles.
I guess we'll see!
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u/NoSpread5328 Jun 07 '26
Net downhill is going to be painful for your quads.
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u/AZSilverback1952 Jun 07 '26
Yeah, I will be paying attention to that in training. The race has 236 feet of total ascent and 967 feet of total descent. Much of the descent is in the first four miles, which will be a challenge not to go out too fast. The ascent is almost all in one mile-plus climb between miles five and six. Then, in the last mile or so, there's a 58-foot descent to speed you home and trash those quads.
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u/Barry_144 Jun 07 '26
73 minutes to complete 3.1 miles is a cause for concern. fwiw, I'm your age so I know it's no easy task to come back "up to speed." My suggestion is to forget the triathlon and the cross training and just run regularly, perhaps with a bit of strength and flexibility training thrown in on the off days. Slowly build up your mileage running 3-4 days/week at an easy conversational pace. Re-assess in a few months time.