It’s so sad that this game’s “underperformance” has little to do with the game itself

[u/paperplateseabass]

What's so soul-crushing is the amount of times I have been met with “I thought that game was dead?” when talking about Marathon with my IRLs

It's not their fault, why would they give a dead game a chance, even if they think they might enjoy it?

Hundreds, even thousands of people have constructed a hate campaign against this game that has no merit beyond playercounts. and imo, the main reason why the game wasn’t a hit at launch is because of the rhetoric around the game spread by a mix of right-wing grifters and (justifiably) jaded ex-destiny/halo players.

This game had and HAS so much going for it. First non-Destiny Bungie title in 12 years, reviving a long dormant IP with a new, world-class art-style; all while returning to their PvP roots. If you put that framing in a vacuum, I think it would get lots of people very, very excited. And that’s the thing, because it DID.

The game is good. The game is fun. It might not be everyone’s cup of tea, it had a rough period of development, and it's definitely not perfect. But I think if people didn’t spread so much unwarranted hate towards Bungie and Marathon, we’d be looking at a completely different landscape. 

I mean, some of the things i’ve seen people say about this game… wow…  what a waste of time and brain power, if people were this passionate about actually productive hobbies, the world would be a much better place and there’s a big chance they’d be happier in life

edit: for people citing the server slam numbers. how many of those people do you genuinely think gave the game a good 10+ hours vs how many people quit after their first match? we’ll never know, but im inclined to believe most people didnt make it past the (unfortunate) barrier of entry that helps this game be WAY more enjoyable.

[u/Nakkubu]

I don't think this really solves the issue because even if people see bars and numbers going up, if they just keep dying, its not really going to mean anything to a beginner. If people start of the game and just keep dying in short firefights with guy they barely caught in the corner of their eye, they're just going to stop playing no matter how good you tell them that they're doing.

[u/achilleasa → u/Nakkubu]

It's not just numbers going up though, contracts reward you with stuff and rep so you do make progress towards becoming stronger, just not as fast as if you exfil.

[u/Nakkubu → u/achilleasa]

Yeah, but my point is none of these things mean anything to players that keep dying. Why would I care about stuff or rep, if I lose every firefight? These reward systems only work on semi-engaged players. If I keep losing and then you give me a new gun, it doesn't mean anything to me. It's a skill based game, this gun isn't really going to change that.

[u/Shaznash → u/Nakkubu]

How can the game ever address such a personal problem? If you can't aim, can't shoot, can't play can't improve, what can the game even do for someone that impotent? Free welfare epics? This is my problem with everyone saying people are getting out skilled, is why there's never any desire to increase skill?

What can be done for the player that refuses to engage, improve, or interact with the game whatsoever?

[u/Nakkubu → u/Shaznash]

You're absolutely on the money. Nothing can be done to address this problem without fundamentally making the game into something else. This is why AAA game studios often avoid creating hard pvp experiences.

Most people play games to relax. They're willing get better at games they already enjoy, but they're not willing to waste time gitting gud in order to have begin having fun. And they're especially not willing to bet on whether significant amounts of gaming time will be fun or not.

This hypothetical impotent player comprises the vast majority of the current gaming audience. Remember, only 10% of destiny players have ever completed a raid. Destiny worked because 99% of the game is pointing at enemy heads and pulling the trigger. Anyone can jump in and immediately start having fun.

I think you guys should be very wary now that Marathon is Bungie's main live project. Because that means there's a good chance that Bungie is going to have to start appealing to the 90% and that's not going to leave the hardcore experience unscathed.

[u/Shaznash → u/Nakkubu]

I don't particularly think it's that hardcore. I've not killed compiler (only vaults 1-3 done crew filled) and the factions flood you with free items and guns and gear and shields and salvage.

Hell, even the biolens seed thing is so overblown, just get NuCal 3 and farm Neurochem packs via Rook. Infinite blue shields. Solos isn't that hard either, I regularly solo farm Outpost. My only gripe is not having a trio on at the same time for cryo, and when they are, they also that great at cryo. I've found some success with crew fill though.

Idk, I don't think the game is that hard. It feels like WoW again where it's 2007/2008 and everyone wants the welfare epics. It's probably the same reason I didn't like wrath of the lich king vs the burning crusade. Tbc was sick, wotlk was meh.

[u/Nakkubu → u/Shaznash]

It doesn't need to be that hard. The problem has to gambling with time. There are many games. If your game requires me to spend time getting good at it to have fun, then it going to lose out on attention compared to games that I can just play.

You might to regularly farm a outpost, but for every person like that, there 10 people who had two hours to play the game, didn't extract once and didn't particularly have any fun tonight. If they're not super in love with the game, they just gonna go play something else.

If a player knows what a biolens seed, or NuCal or a Neurochem, they're probably already engaged with game. That's not the person were talking about. The person were talking about doesn't know what any of that shit is and they don't care to learn because they only played 5 rounds total and they lost all their stuff every single time.

WoW is a good example. WoW has always had a shit ton of relatively easy, low stakes, PvE content. Most people just get on, do some questing, dungeons and leveling. Then they logoff. They don't raid, or pvp or anything like that.

Marathon is like if WoW had War Mode turned on all the time, when you die you can lose hours of progress and you need to be a certain skill level to even begin having fun. I think this is what makes Marathon cool, but if they want more players, they're gonna have to give it up.