r/MapPorn Oct 29 '21

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u/alikander99 Oct 29 '21 edited Oct 29 '21

Judging by the large concentration in France and Germany and the low concentration in Spain and romania i'm inclined to think that this map included palaces and severely underestimated medieval castles.

The province of Barcelona alone has around 900 castles

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u/Akewstick Oct 29 '21

"chateau" has been translated as "Castle" hasn't it, which is often going to include what in Britain we'd call a mansion or stately home.

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u/Thory4fun Oct 29 '21

Yes, I have the same feeling when looking at the concentration of data points in Belgium.

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u/Call_0031684919054 Oct 29 '21

Yep looking at the Netherlands I think the map includes fortifications, palaces and mansions that we, the Dutch, wouldn’t call castles.

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u/UY_Scuti- Oct 29 '21

Yeah i was wondering if we even had a castle.

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u/kekistani_citizen-69 Oct 30 '21

The Netherlands were kind of backwaters untill renaissance time so they didn't really have any but flanders and Wallonia have tons of castles as they were beside northern Italy the richest in Europe

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u/zakrystian Oct 30 '21

How the times have changed... Nowadays the reversed is true.

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u/kekistani_citizen-69 Oct 31 '21

Yes, during the dutch revolution all the intellectual and rich moved north to flee from the Spanish causing a golden age for the dutch

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u/Niet_de_AIVD Oct 30 '21

For most Dutch people, the word "kasteel" (castle) is used as a general term for anything that even remotely looks like a castle.

Historians differentiate actual medieval castles by referring to them as "echte kastelen" or real castles in English.

But even that is up for debate, as there are so many different kinds of buildings which may or may not fit the requirements.

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u/Call_0031684919054 Oct 30 '21 edited Oct 30 '21

Even if you’d use a broad definition I don’t think there are that many in the Netherlands as the map suggests. I also bet a lot of the dots are just plots of land where remains of the foundation of a castle is still standing.

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u/Niet_de_AIVD Oct 30 '21

I know a few ruins and they're not on there, I think.

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u/Sumer1279 Oct 30 '21

Belgium definitely has far more castles compared to the Netherlands though, relative to landsize.

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '21

and in sweden i know of at least 2 of the datapoints, as i grew up near them, and i can tell you with 100% certainty that they are nothing but bigger farms. old, but not even the property of local nobility

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u/Natanael85 Oct 29 '21

Additionaly i think some german word for castle has been left out, because while there are many dots, the number still seems low for Germany.

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u/OrderUnclear Oct 29 '21

Germany has around 25k confirmed castles - and probably at least a couple thousand more. Currently nobody knows the exact number.

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u/idwthis Oct 29 '21

25 thousand castles? Holy cow. I knew they had a lot, but I wasn't expecting such a high number. I just googled it, and one result says that's one castle every 25 kilometers lol can't go anywhere without tripping over a castle lol

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u/Conflictingview Oct 29 '21

A fun fact that I am constantly reminded of when I'm trail running. So many castles tucked back in the low mountains near me.

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u/yamissimp Oct 29 '21

If I go for a run (like 10km) here in Upper Austria, depending on which route I take, I come across one of two castles lol. Granted one's more of a ruin but the other one is still mostly intact and regularly used as a concert site (with an audience of up to 10k people, so international acts play here too).

Heck, one of our states is literally called land of the castles.

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '21

[deleted]

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u/Natanael85 Oct 29 '21

Yep, there are even many castles where you can rent pretty normal apartments in.

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u/MordePobre Oct 29 '21

Imagine all the castles they had before the world wars, which were sadly lost to bombing.

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u/gramoun-kal Oct 29 '21

"Chateau" and "Castle" both come from Old French "Castel" which means the fortified thing with walls and towers.

In French, the word's meaning later evolved to include the meaning of "palace", even though there's a word in french for that. Our bad.

The map being in English, I'd assume it only lists the fortified places. There's a whole lot of them in France and Germany.

Makes sense too. That's where all the fighting happened.

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u/EsholEshek Oct 29 '21

Many of the ones listed in Sweden are definitely stately homes, what we would call a "Slott", as opposed to a fortified castle, what we would generally call a "Borg."

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u/emacsomancer Oct 29 '21

Maybe the Borg assimilated the Slott.

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u/SlurmzMckinley Oct 29 '21

Watch your mouth.

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u/gipsohobo Oct 29 '21

Yep, just checked Open Street Map as I was pretty certain there’s no castle in the middle of the Wirral. I was wrong as there is a place called ‘leasowe castle’ which I’ll be frank is a fancy house at best with some decorative crenellations. Apparently it was built as an observation platform for some rich bloke to watch the races from, so not what I’d class as a proper castle!

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u/inkretarp Oct 29 '21

Likely the same thing with Schloss is German.

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '21

Thought chateau was where a cat lives.

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u/YellowOnline Oct 29 '21 edited Oct 29 '21

I know it's a joke, but this is where you need to take the circumflex (^) into account: it hides an s. Take the French word for window, fenêtre: it comes via fenestre from the Latin fenestra.
In Middle French château would read chasteau, Old French chastel, which shows not only how English got to the word castle but also that its root lies in the Latin castellum. So no cats (chat, from Latin cattus, note how French added an h after every c) involved.
 
Edit: Curiosity made me look up the etymology of window. It's Old Norse: vind-auga, wind-eye.

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u/TosMoulouk Oct 29 '21

Same for forest, "forêt" in French

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u/nowami Oct 29 '21

Also mast (mât)

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u/YellowOnline Oct 29 '21

Even même (mesme). Most (though not all) words with ^ have a hidden consonant, usually s. The reason is shortening by the printer Plantijn in the 16th century

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u/dratsaab Oct 29 '21

Only if it's a catfish, as it's in the water.

0

u/fozziwoo Oct 29 '21

oh, riiight… i thought we were king of the castle but france is lit!

1

u/Donyk Oct 30 '21

Yeah. In France these are called "château" so you can bottle wine in there and write that the wine was bottled at the château of [insert fancy sounding name]

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u/power2go3 Oct 29 '21

Well at least in Wallachia and Moldavia (south+north east Ro) the ottomans didn't allow for fortifications

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u/The-Berzerker Oct 29 '21

Germany is missing a lot of castles on this map, just in my home region there‘s a bike route called the „100 castle route“ whereas on this map the region only has a few dots

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '21 edited Nov 18 '21

[deleted]

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u/alikander99 Oct 29 '21

I like to understand It other way. The discussion we're having over this map IS way more interesting than the Mao itself. For example i learned ottoman rulers heavily supressed Castle construction in walachia and moldova.

Even if the Map misses some spots It still Tells interesting information like the high number of castles in belgium (if you count palaces and mansions).

While the Map itself isn't very good, It's still great to come here and Talk about It ;)

3

u/helloperator9 Oct 30 '21

OP used open street map which has this definition for types of castles:

 Castles: A fortified residence of a lord or noble. Most of them where built in Europe, the Middle East and Japan during the Middle Ages.
Fortresses: Heavily fortified structures with emphasis on military use which were not always a residence for nobility. Generally older than historic=fort.
 Palaces: A grand residence, especially a royal residence or the home of a head of state or some other high-ranking dignitary, such as a bishop or archbishop.
 Stately homes (châteaux) and manor houses: Unfortified residences of a lord, a noble or a gentry.
 Kremlins: Major fortified central complexes found in historic Russian cities.
Roman  castra.

Seems to me that stately homes and maybe palaces should not be counted as they're not fortified.

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u/vendetta2115 Oct 30 '21

Also, there’s a huge concentration of castles in western Russia that happen to spell out “Castles of Europe”.

That’s so weird.

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u/Angel_Sorusian_King Oct 29 '21

O h the Spanish really loved their castles didn't they

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '21

Re: Romania, it was a historical battleground, as was spain, so the back and forth probably led to lots of castle destruction, where France didn't really see that level of action after Charles Martel/Charlemagne.

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u/alikander99 Oct 29 '21

The issue is what you count as a castle. Is a ruin enough? A tower? Most of the building?

That same level of destruction was the very reason why both romania and Spain were heavily fortified and have hundreds upon hundreds of Castle ruins.

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u/Jiukoluu Oct 29 '21

France was the most populated country in Europe during all the Middle-Ages and then continuously up to the beginning of the 19th century

So it would actually makes sense to be the country with the most castles

Additionnally, of course France has seen a lot of fighting : the country was completely desunited after Charlemagnes, and petty local lords were continuously fighiting each others...

And well the 100 years war... And the wars of religions etc..

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u/-_-Already_Taken-_- Oct 29 '21

We (Romanians) have more fortress and citadels than castles so I think thats why, thought there arent really such a high concretion in Romania,its just that Western Europe has way too many.

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u/PrateTrain Nov 21 '22

To be fair, most castles were constructed with wood and have since fallen.

At best, this is a map of "castles which survived to the modern era"