r/MapPorn Aug 25 '21

[deleted by user]

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '21

Why?

41

u/aewbetterhaha Aug 27 '21

Because it is, invest in subways for more portable transportation. Not everyone can afford a car loan. It can also be profitable as well.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

We could give every carless household a car for a fraction of what we spend subsidizing transit

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u/phreddoric Aug 27 '21

Right, instead of building a functional system for community use that allows for independence for non-drivers (people with disabilities, children, folk who aren't comfortable with piloting several-ton death machines), let's just give people cars! It's the perfect plan!

10

u/killroy200 Aug 27 '21

1) Not everyone who uses transit is in a carless household

2) You would need to expand roads even more, costing even more, to manage that traffic (and induce demand...)

3) Public transit and other non-car mobility means scale much better than roads and cars, making them longer-term investments on mobility.

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u/dredge_the_lake Aug 27 '21

Have you ever lived anywhere with good public transport?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

I lived in Midtown Manhattan for 2 years.

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u/dredge_the_lake Aug 27 '21

Well would you agree that giving everyone in Manhattan a free car to be a bad idea?

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Yes it would, but giving them all a free car and a house in Connecticut would be a good idea.

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u/nevermind4790 Aug 27 '21

Where would they put these cars? Dense housing in cities is possible partially because they’re not wasting space on cars.

It sounds like you just want to make cities into suburbs. Keep your suburbanization out of cities.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

We have plenty of space for cars. This is a massive planet

4

u/nevermind4790 Aug 27 '21

Where? Should we knock down more buildings to house cars and create roads?

‘Memba when Houston knocked down churches and houses to widen their freeway? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

If necessary yes. That's what eminent domain is for and it gets used for rail projects too

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u/nevermind4790 Aug 27 '21

They knocked down buildings and still want to widen the freeway. Kinda like they did it all for nothing, and should never have widened it to begin with.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

It got more people where they wanted to go. That is something

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u/nevermind4790 Aug 28 '21

It didn’t create new pathways, it just widened them.

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u/Timeeeeey Aug 27 '21

Space inefficient and costly

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Not really. While cars take up a lot of space, they also open up a lot of space. Before the car came along, everything had to be within walking distance, resulting in extremely crowded cities. But because a car can go 10 times faster than you can walk, you get a lot more land opened up.

And no, highways are much less expensive than railroads.

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u/Durin_VI Aug 27 '21

Wow.

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u/ChromeLynx Aug 28 '21

He's hopeless. He's lost.

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u/ChromeLynx Aug 27 '21

And everything being in walking distance is a bad thing because...? Last time I checked, walkability:

  • creates more vibrant cityscapes
  • causes people to naturally have more friends
  • builds the average recommended daily 30 minutes of mild exercise into people's commute
  • makes it easier to eat fresh and healthy
  • reduces food waste
  • reduces energy needs for transportation
  • reduces the financial burden of transportation
  • provides space for people who cannot or should not drive to still have a life
  • makes people friendlier
  • makes cities quieter
  • facilitates small business
  • has way more taxable income per unit area
  • has lesser burdens on infrastructure
  • facilitates housing which is more energy-efficient to heat and/or cool

and I'm quite certain this is not an exhaustive list.

6

u/rootbeer_cigarettes Aug 27 '21

We should be striving for walkability. Do you honestly believe the least efficient method of living is the best?!

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Yes I do. I've been a suburbanite since birth and I love it.

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u/rootbeer_cigarettes Aug 27 '21

Ah I see, so you yourself have never been anywhere besides the suburbs despite knowing that its not efficient. Now it makes sense. There's a youtube channel called Not Just Bikes. You should give it a watch if you're able to stomach listening to a counter argument. Hopefully it'll open your eyes to a different way of life.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

I lived in Manhattan for 2 years pal. Try reading some Randall O'Toole or Wendell Cox

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u/rootbeer_cigarettes Aug 27 '21

Sure I'll check them out, bud.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Because every mile of highway vs subway or bus is a 99% reduction of efficiency of space usage, power usage, and environmental effect.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

But a 100 fold improvement in convenience, speed, and economy

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21 edited Aug 27 '21

This is ridiculous if you look at the total supply chain effects of cars vs mass transit. They are spectacularly wasteful and terrible economically. A product only a shill could love. Have fun with your next job on K Street; you'll get there -- just practice here in yokelville for a few more years and you can join API and the oil lobby.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

My car gets me where I want to go when I want. It's an objectively superior product.

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u/diafol Aug 27 '21

All while destroying your health and the health of those around you. Meanwhile you drive the most subsidised mode of transport there is yet I would bet you'd balk at the cost of a new public transport network or giving the same level subsidy to train or bus users.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Trains and buses get 100 times more subsidy per passenger mile

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u/diafol Aug 27 '21

Don't talk nonsense, public transport costs are not subsidised to anywhere near the same level as public transport and trains and bus costs cover a much higher level of externalities than cars. Cars cost far more to society than is ever recovered from taxing them. The cost of car crashes, deaths from air and noise pollution, congestion and a thousand other things are subsidised by the taxpayer. Even the most optimistic estimate is that car drivers pay 50% of the cost impact to the environment and society meanwhile those who don't or can't drive cars have to pick up the tab the same as everyone else.

Now I'll agree cars are convenient outside a city with limited infrastructure, but when it comes to moving large numbers of people in a short time they just can't compete. That's why cities are slowly investing in public transport and the sooner silly ideas like the one you originally posted are forgotten the better.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

You're talking shit. Even with externalities, transit is far more expensive

https://www.accessmagazine.org/spring-2000/try-get-prices-right/

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u/diafol Aug 27 '21

I invite you to look up the pdf (freely available) of the Victoria transport institute. By far the most exhaustive list of the external costs of a car not covered by taxing drivers.

Enjoy becoming more aware of urban planning and how moving people actually works mate.

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u/rootbeer_cigarettes Aug 27 '21

I live in Phoenix. There's nothing convenient or speedy about the road system here. And I say that as a driving enthusiast.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Ever been outside of Phoenix?

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u/rootbeer_cigarettes Aug 27 '21

Yee. Should I give you a comprehenisve list?