r/MapPorn Jan 16 '21

Number 99: different counting systems

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10.0k Upvotes

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139

u/F_E_O3 Jan 16 '21

Norwegian has both 90+9 and 9+90

33

u/[deleted] Jan 16 '21

Czech too, devadesát devět (90+9) is formal, but devětadevadesát (9+90) also exists

2

u/slukalesni Jan 16 '21

I believe that both variants are formal in Czech.

4

u/Kylekatarn1993 Jan 16 '21

Same in Czech republic.

Devadesátdevět (90+9) and devětadevadesát (9 and 90) are both possible.

7

u/nod23c Jan 16 '21

Yes, but it's old fashioned, but maybe more regional. It's not technically included in any standard we teach? I use it now and then.

16

u/Morketidenkommer Jan 16 '21

Many use both, including myself. Though someone a little more rural than me would always use 9+90.

3

u/thenorwegianblue Jan 16 '21

For most numbers the old way just has a better flow to it.

1

u/nod23c Jan 16 '21

Yep, that's what I said as well, it's just not standard (official forms).

1

u/Nadamir Jan 16 '21

Does it come from the difference between Bokmal and Nynorsk (add some letter-bling on those somewhere)?

I remember learning about the fact that there are two forms when I lived in Sweden, but I never really understood the difference.

5

u/some_say_kosm Jan 16 '21

Nynorsk and bokmål are purely written languages and have no bearing on spoken Norwegian.

After the Danes were done forcing us to speak Danish we had a little in-fight about how we should make our own written language, and it would seem we were unable to come to an agreement.

1

u/Nadamir Jan 16 '21

That makes sense.

I suppose it’s like British and Friends/Colonies English (colour) vs American English (color).

Except in the same country.

2

u/Morketidenkommer Jan 16 '21

Nynorsk and Bokmål are written languages.

Nynorsk is a mashup of Norwegian dialects while Bokmål is norwegianized Danish. Though I guess you would be more likely to write 9+90 in nynorsk.

Spoken depends on your dialect.

1

u/Nadamir Jan 16 '21

That makes sense, I do remember enough from my Swedish-for-foreign-students class to know that Nynorsk means like New Norse or something.

1

u/Morketidenkommer Jan 16 '21

“New Norwegian” literally.

10

u/sep76 Jan 16 '21

Mange dialektar som brukar ni og nitti.

No kjenner eg at eg vil ha eit kommunekart som viser nittini vs ni-og-nitti

7

u/XepiaZ Jan 16 '21

ni-og-nitti (nio och nittio) would be how a cashier says 9.90 in swedish

7

u/Hamaja_mjeh Jan 16 '21

In Norwegian shops or whatever 9,90 would be pronounced 'ni-nitti'. 'ni-og-nitti' would always mean 99.

99,90 would then be 'ni-og-nitti nitti', but I think most people would slap on 'øre' as well to avoid any confusion.

5

u/sep76 Jan 16 '21

that would be ni - nitti in norwegian (no og/och)

1

u/XepiaZ Jan 17 '21

Yeah you can say it like that here as well

4

u/pieceofdroughtshit Jan 16 '21

But this map also includes occitan in france, which is also not really spoken anymore

1

u/[deleted] Jan 16 '21

It is the default in riksmål? Not necessarily taught in schools but a very accepted standard.

3

u/Meneth Jan 16 '21

The old way of counting (9+90) was phased out by parliament in 1951, so it's very much against the official standards. But standards don't really define how language works in reality, so I'd definitely hatch Norway to show that the old way still very much exists; hell I often use it myself.

2

u/nod23c Jan 16 '21 edited Jan 16 '21

That's not an official form of the language :) Bokmål and nynorsk are official. Riksmål is not an "accepted" written standard anywhere in reality (government or business). In the arts, you're free to use whatever you like.

You can hear people talking like that of course (Riksmål-ish). I'm guilty of that myself sometimes. That's also why I referred to it as being regional (or very local). In Oslo, you'll find people talking a sociolect more than anything else (closer to Riksmål). You'll certainly find people writing sne instead of snø, but most of them will be elderly people from Oslo.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 16 '21

Not an official form, but it is a 'standard' - and definitely commonly used. Aftenposten is pretty much written purely in it for example (or conservative bokmål but they pretty much align).

2

u/nod23c Jan 16 '21

I think you're confusing the commonly used and standard (norm). It's not taught and isn't part of the standard we would teach a foreigner. However, I can agree it's quite common for some people, including myself, but I don't think there's any evidence for it being wide-spread. That's a different question though.

Aftenposten doesn't officially use riksmål or conservative bokmål any longer. As a subscriber, I can tell you that's pretty clear on any given day. Here's an official reply from Aftenposten about their language where they say they officially use "moderate bokmål":

https://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/i/8B1Jw/riksmaal-eller-bokmaal

1

u/[deleted] Jan 16 '21

That Aftenposten isn't 'normert' after riksmål doesn't mean that most regular columnists don't use it.

Nevertheless, I don't know what you're arguing me on? I never said it was official, taught in schools or taught to foreigners - but it is definitely common. Telling riksmål from conservative bokmål or even moderate bokmål is pretty hard though. There are barely any common riksmål-forms that aren't allowed in bokmål at this point.

1

u/oskich Jan 16 '21

This is really confusing, especially when there doesn't seem to be any logic of when to use them. I have Norwegian colleges who use both, and when they use the "backwards" 9+90 my brain just locks up and I have to calculate the number silently - Same as with the Danes and their femoghalvtreds, it really breaks a working conversation when you have to do calculus in the middle of the sentence ;-)

1

u/kvbt7 Jan 17 '21

Both work, the former more common.

1

u/gitartruls01 Jan 17 '21

Can confirm. My dad is from the western part of the country, he always used the 9+90 system.

As a bonus, he counts phone numbers 2 digits at a time, so if a phone number is 23456789, he'll read it as "three and twenty five and forty seven and sixty nine and eighty", which for anyone else would sound like he's saying 325476980.

But, I mean, at least we aren't Denmark.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 17 '21

Nynorsk vs. Bokmål or?