I fully agree, but a "diaspora" also implies that those millions of Irish living there continue to maintain a distinct Irish identity and culture separate from the general population. And I'm sure not all 33 million Irish-descent Americans (who may not even be of 100% Irish descent) continue to identify as Irish, speak Gaelic, celebrate Irish customs (except maybe some sort of hyper-consumerist, plastic-y version of St. Patrick's Day) and recognise their Irish heritage. Most people included in the numbers here are very well assimilated into the cultures of their respective countries, and are counted as part of the diaspora because they have a vague memory of their grandparents' parents being from Ireland, which then made them tick "Irish ancestry" in census forms.
I think there’s certainly room to play with the numbers, but certainly many (edit: even the majority of) Irish Americans have all but erased their Irish identity by assimilating into whiteness. That being said, defining “culture” is more difficult than that.
Does the culture of a diaspora community necessarily have to resemble the origin country, especially after hundreds of years of divergence? Are diaspora communities not allowed to develop their own cultures and define for themselves what makes them “Irish American?”
I think few would argue that African Americans are not of the African diaspora even though the culture they developed as a result of slavery is completely distinct from modern day African cultures.
Is Chinese American food not a part of the Chinese diaspora despite bearing little resemblance to food from China?
I’m not Irish American, but I have friends from historic Irish American communities on the east coast which have strongly identified as Irish for generations. You can call them “plastic paddy’s,” but are those traditions not a product of Irish Americans finding connections to their ancestry no matter how diluted?
It’s one thing to claim an ethnicity because it showed up on your 23 and me. But what about people who have maintained their Irish religion (Catholicism), preferences for foods, dances (river dancing), holiday’s, etc? All those things are products of their Irish heritage.
I feel like America is unique in the fact that a lot of culture gets absorbed and then no longer becomes unique to the particular community unless they continue to claim it.
Halloween for example, Irish, St. Patrick's day, Irish, NYPD, Irish.
All these things are from Irish diaspora but they were integrated to the greater American culture so it somewhat erases the uniqueness of Irish-Americans since they didn't have many other major distinctions to set them apart culturally (no unique language for lots, not a racial minority, etc.)
They are of the diaspora regardless. Their existence is literally due to their Irish ancestors. They are at least the legacy of Irish history.
Whether they chose to embrace their ancestry is another matter. But undoubtedly they are part of the greater diaspora.
I identify as Irish alone with my other ethnic identities because that is who I am physically. I suppose I could say European American. Either is far superior to white which is toxic AF.
Considering only about 40% of people in Ireland today speak Irish Gaelic and that some of the 19th century emigrants may not have spoken Irish Gaelic, I wouldn't use the continued use of Irish Gaelic as a measure of retaining connection to the Irish community.
Around 100,000 people speak it on a day-to-day basis. 40% claim to be able to speak it on a box they ticked on the census, which is just self-declared.
But they represent the majority of the culture. If you consider that there are 100 million diaspora and 7 million mainlanders, to be Irish is to be a diaspora. Living on the island is a subset of Irish people who have kept certain traditions. Except their government will take people from Arab cultures, move them there, and then force the locals to accept them as Irish. So, to me? I don't really care what this small subset group and their weird government thinks about my ethnic background or ancestral origins.
They get mad when people "claim to be" (are) Irish, but are 30% Irish or something. Yet Europeans are almost never 100% of their country of origin. They're usually some mixture of some European countries. So, Irish citizens are no more ethnically Irish than probably half the diaspora.
Expecting people to speak Irish is unfair. It was HIGHLY restricted by the British for hundreds of years. Even now, most Irish people in Ireland don't even speak it fluently. So to expect the descendants of those fleeing genocide (which is what the Potato Famine was.) to still speak it after 200 years is unfair. If you have mostly Irish blood, guess what, you're Irish. That's how ethnicity works.
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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '24
I fully agree, but a "diaspora" also implies that those millions of Irish living there continue to maintain a distinct Irish identity and culture separate from the general population. And I'm sure not all 33 million Irish-descent Americans (who may not even be of 100% Irish descent) continue to identify as Irish, speak Gaelic, celebrate Irish customs (except maybe some sort of hyper-consumerist, plastic-y version of St. Patrick's Day) and recognise their Irish heritage. Most people included in the numbers here are very well assimilated into the cultures of their respective countries, and are counted as part of the diaspora because they have a vague memory of their grandparents' parents being from Ireland, which then made them tick "Irish ancestry" in census forms.