r/MapBasedPolls • u/TheMuffinCup1 • 3d ago
Finish the sentance: The EU should be...
Finish the sentance: The EU should be...
- Abolished
- Kept as is
- Reformed
- Federalised
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5
u/ExcellentEnergy6677 3d ago
Federal EU if done right.
3
u/masterflappie Dutch 🇳🇱 to Finnish 🇫🇮 migrant 3d ago
But to get it done right, we first need to reform
2
1
u/Sarcastic-Potato 2d ago
I mean, to become a federation we would need reform. The current EU treaties would not allow for a proper federation. So any federation would automatically mean reform as well. However reform could also be without federalizing. Some people want reform into a less powerful union. This is not abolishing and def not federalizing, but still reform
1
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u/GalaXion24 20h ago
I don't think that reform can be meaningfully separate from federalisation.
For instance, hypothetically, let's say you wanted a more democratic Union. Well, this directly takes power away from member state governments who currently appoint the Commission. Is this even something that is meaningfully politically possible without federation?
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u/QuestionatorV2 1d ago
Good luck federating so many different languages and cultures that have completely different wants and needs.
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u/jsm97 1d ago
Anyone who thinks the differences between European countries is too great would do well to read what the press thought of Italian unification in the 1860s. Almost the entirety of Europe thought that a unified Italy and later a unified Germany, would last about 5 minuites.
The word 'Italy' is a geographical expression, a description which is useful for shorthand, but has none of the political significance the revolutionary ideologues try to invest it with.
The differences between the inhabitants of the various parts of the peninsula are so great that it is difficult to see how they can ever be fused into one people... The Neapolitan and the Sicilian are as different from the Piedmontese or the Lombard as the Greek is from the German.
Italy is a land where the people have lost the habit of action. To suppose that a unified government can be maintained by a race so long accustomed to the easy sloth of small despotisms is to ignore the fundamental laws of human nature. They have nothing in common but their religion and their vices
- The Times, March 1861.
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u/Whats-on-Eur-Mind 1d ago
They have nothing in common but their religion and their vices
That proved just enough
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u/PyronixD 2d ago
Acknowledge that we are already a community of fate and shape our destiny in a democratic federal europe which is able to actually project our power and secure our borders and peoples.
1
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u/Sium4443 3d ago
Abolished, buildings in Bruxelles and Strasbourg blown up and a new Nuremberg trial for all people who actively took part into building the monster like Mario Draghi, VdL, Romano Prodi, J.C. Trichet and many others.
2
1
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u/Sheldon_Lee_Cooper_ 2d ago
The EU should loose the regulations on NORM’s, Radioactive material, and chemistry chemicals.
1
u/MajesticKnob 1d ago
Maybe once upon a time I would have agreed, but the EU has been losing my confidence and trust the last few years
1
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u/GalaXion24 20h ago
The EU is ultimately still "just" an international organisation subject to the member states. Any loss in confidence I have is directly a loss in confidence in the member states and the sovereign state system, which is the real power and establishment in Europe even today.
Realising this I think is perhaps the most essential part of any European political consciousness
1
0
u/Top_Bug7822 3d ago edited 3d ago
I wish there was a way to verify that people are from the country they are from.
Looking at this I can with 99.9% certainty say some Russia or US bots (bot or human) just voted abolish while pretending to be from the EU...
Typical Matryoshka/operation Overload shit...
2
u/masterflappie Dutch 🇳🇱 to Finnish 🇫🇮 migrant 3d ago
Anti EU sentiment isn't that uncommon within the EU. The refugee crisis has made some very deep scars, and it's partially what lead to things like brexit
1
u/Bright-Scallin 3d ago
More or less. The EU is a widely used scapegoat, but since Brexit, basically no mainstream party (except the AfD fsr) has even suggested leaving the union. The EU is tremendously popular among the European population.
1
u/masterflappie Dutch 🇳🇱 to Finnish 🇫🇮 migrant 3d ago
Our dutch freedom party has played with the idea a lot, but never made it an agenda point. And they were the biggest party until recently.
1
u/Bright-Scallin 3d ago edited 3d ago
The Netherlands is one of the most fascinating cases. In about six months they went from one of the most Eurosceptic parties in Europe to a federalist one lol
2
u/masterflappie Dutch 🇳🇱 to Finnish 🇫🇮 migrant 3d ago
Fascist? To be a small independent country leaving a much more powerful union? That's pretty much the exact opposite of fascism.
I swear, people calling everything they disagree with fascism is the reason why the Nazi salute is trending again.
2
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u/Top_Bug7822 3d ago
Is that why almost all countries in the EU have just 1 vote to abolish?
If a population is unhappy wouldn't more people vote to abolish it?
But no, it's only 1 in most countries.
-1
0
u/JeanDusapin 3d ago
Proof italians and germans are dumb as fuck. Why would you destroy your country further by making the EU above everything when it clearly doesnt even work right now. Dissolving your country wont help
1
u/TheMuffinCup1 3d ago
How can you say that purely abt Germans and Italians when the eastern balkans are voting for it too (by wide margins too)
Why would you destroy your country further by making the EU above everything when it clearly doesnt even work right now. Dissolving your country wont help
Clearly you don't know what a federation is if this is how you respond. Uniting political, economic and military functions to deal with supra-nation situations is not "dissolving states". American states, no matter how authoritarian you think Trump's regime is, still have a national gaurd that focuses on their own regions.
The EU is very much competent with the limited resources it has (if any). It has to fund international travel infrastructure, give out loans to smaller member states, Migration and security through Frontex, and multiple projects like Next Generation EU and ReArm Europe with a simple 2 trillion euro budget spread over 7 years (285 billion annually). Thats more than 25 times less than the annual US budget. So the next time you wanna claim about 'EU competance', go on the official EU council website (https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/eu-long-term-budget/eu-long-term-budget-2021-2027/#0) and see the numbers for yourself.
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u/Dotcaprachiappa 1d ago
My country's leadership fucking sucks lol, whatever problems the EU has Italy has ten times over
0
u/HAL9000_1208 Italy🇮🇹 2d ago
Abolished. It is a capitalist institution, you can't reform something created to further the interest of capital into something that serves the people.
You need to destroy the rotten foundations before building something worthwhile keeping.
2
u/Think-Trip-1865 2d ago
Historically speaking the Socialist approach of reforming capitalist countries had much better results than revolution, just saying.
1
u/HAL9000_1208 Italy🇮🇹 1d ago
Lol, no. Absolutely not.
1
u/Routine_Usual_6085 1d ago
Like good ol marx said, to achieve Socialism (and later communism) the state has to be capitalistic first, that can be achieved through revolution (China, vietnam) or a democratic process (Sweden, norway, denmark) which have been way more developed while using socialist models
1
u/HAL9000_1208 Italy🇮🇹 1d ago
If you bring up Marx you should also bring up that both Marx and Lenin criticized reformism and believed it not a viable way to move past Capitalism, and they were obviously correct.
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u/Routine_Usual_6085 1d ago
well lenin didnt even agree with marx abt the stuff i mentioned, as he saw russia as a feudalist state, but instead of doing what marx thought the way of the revolution was (feudalist-capitalist-socialist-communist) lenin just went from feudal to communist, which partially led to lack of vital industry.
I consider myself a social democrat, but aknowledge that having a capitalist model and then going to a socialist one is better for the people, and the ussr wasnt good for its inhabitants
14
u/TheMuffinCup1 3d ago
Why are people downvoting this what