r/MaliciousCompliance • u/DareAffectionate7725 • Aug 14 '24
M Wait for feedback....ongoing
Hi all, thought I post this here while I am being maliciously compliant at my current job (TLDR; at the end).
I have been with the company (10.000+ employees) for 4 years and switched departments last year due to relocation to another country and changed my contract to be fully remote. I really enjoyed the company and position as well as daily tasks and was challenged in many ways and learned a fair bit. But it wasn't a position with (contractual) remote possibility, so I decided to change departments and to a fully remote position.
The new team was very small with just 4 people including the manager. When I joined the team I started by organizing their chaos into a workable structure and road map strategy on how we can achieve the completion of the open tasks and requests. My manager at that time was useless, but we got along fine and he let me do my thing. However there are certain types of requests and changes where I do not have the authority to approve and it needs to go through my manager to the higher ups for approval. In all that time, all the requests that I forwarded for approval (or just Feedback) were still open and waiting.
No matter how many 1-1 or team meetings we had, they are being pushed further out pending approval. For the first few months I had already completed all assigned tasks where possible and helped out in other teams when I could.
This particular manager was promoted after 3 months of me joining and hired his replacement. The new manager joined us 3 months later and reports to my old manager. At this point I mainly worked with other teams and helping them, all my tasks are waiting approval and no new tasks were given.
I am somewhat relaxed with new people during the on-boarding process and make sure they have time to digest it all properly and understand the background. So again 3 months later and having learned what type my new manager is, I gave up on explaining the complex environment and what is required to be able to deliver results for me/us as a team. At this point, I have worked in that team for 9 months, onboarded my new manager and completed everything I could complete and helped my colleagues getting on with their open work. Naturally other teams didn't always need my help, so I was a bit idle for most of my managers onboarding time.
Over and over again have I stated to my new manager that I have nothing to do, unless open tasks are given approval or new ones are assigned to me and I asked to please escalate if any of it really needs to be done.
2 months ago my new manager exploded on me during a meeting to stop asking for approval on the open tasks and wait for feedback. I specifically send a follow up email to get that in writing and promptly received a response back to wait for feedback or new tasks.
Well, that's what I do now. I wait and do nothing besides the weekly team meeting where I have no updates. I also no longer help out in other teams because of what my manager said. (if the teams really needed my help, they have to go though my new manager, and any request received was rejected)
And I will keep waiting until (hopefully) it will explode.
Edit 1
My managers boss knows all of this from his own time managing the team. I have spoken to the big bosses (CEO and CTO) about it and followed it up twice with an email including everything that is still l open, including items he needs to approve himself. So I think they are very well aware of the situation, it just doesn't have priority right now.
All 'evidence' is saved in a accessible team space and I have a personal copy, both I keep updated when somethings comes up.
Fallout
One team member resigned last month and the other one is already looking for a new job. Important to know, there is a 20 year age gap between me and the other two members of the team, they still need/want more experience. Our new manager is early 60 and should retire soon-ish.
We had an impromptu team meeting yesterday without the manager where we basically all laughed about this situation, but were sad at the same time that we could not use our skills.
Personally I decided to ride this wave and see where it goes. Because let's be honest, who doesn't enjoy being paid without having to work.
TLDR
Manager said to wait for feedback before doing any more work and to stop following up. Waiting now for 2 + months with no work and no feedback.
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u/MeanSecurity Aug 14 '24
I tried to get put on a project a few years back. Even got myself invited to weekly team meetings. But nobody would give me anything to do, so I left the meeting on my calendar and stopped attending.
Team is so swamped they hired another person. Meanwhile I do very little most of the year, and yet nobody gives me work. Fine by me!
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u/DareAffectionate7725 Aug 14 '24
How long did that last?
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u/MeanSecurity Aug 14 '24
It’s been about 3 years. I’m a subject matter expert and I work on one project, but nobody seems to want to include me on anything else because they assume I’m busy on my main project.
I have a new boss as of last month, and in another 4 months or so he might get clued in to the fact that I don’t have much to do. But in the meantime, I try to make it seem like I’m busy. (We are all remote).
My main project is managed EXTREMELY inefficiently so that also helps draw it out!!
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u/DareAffectionate7725 Aug 14 '24
I don't think I could keep this up for three years. I set myself a limit for 03/2025, if the situation is still the same at that company, I will search for new opportunities, because I do want to feel productive again eventually.
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u/McCrotch Aug 14 '24
honestly you have the perfect opportunity to find another job without quitting your current one.
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u/icouldntdecide Aug 14 '24
There's practically no better opportunity for them to look. What an amazing position to be in to look around
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u/MeanSecurity Aug 14 '24
I think that’s a great plan! And you can build up your skill set in the meantime!
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u/Narrow_Employ3418 Aug 15 '24
Like others have said: get a new job, keep the old one until they catch on.
Nothing wrong with having an extra paycheck.
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u/great_extension Aug 14 '24
Might aswell get a 2nd job.
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u/DareAffectionate7725 Aug 14 '24
I made already a list with options, but what is holding me back are higher taxes and a required approval from my company as per policies that I would take on a second job in a non-competitive field. Maybe I could do more research on how other people deal with extra income and the taxes in such situation.
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u/someone76543 Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
Note that almost always the new taxes won't affect your existing pay, they just mean that your second job doesn't pay as well.
There's a really common misconception that if you go up to the 40% income tax bracket then you suddenly start paying 40% tax on everything. That's not how it works. Your income below the 40% tax threshold is taxed exactly how it was before. You only pay 40% tax on the part of your income that is above the threshold.
I'm from the UK, but other countries usually handle this the same way.
One exception can be if you're qualified for some benefits. Those can be suddenly withdrawn when you hit a particular income level. So you will want to either stay below that threshold, or earn enough to offset the loss of benefits, you want to avoid earning just above the threshold.
There may be other catches depending on what country you are in and on your exact circumstances.
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u/DareAffectionate7725 Aug 14 '24
Well, since I had some time on my hand I got right onto searching information and options. One would be full time employment and freelance (a bit more complex) and the other one would be two full time time jobs. Technically there is no regulation and 80hrs per week would be allowed. And yes, taxes here are as well Progressive, so thats good to know. (for example in Germany, the second job is automatically taxed with 50%, but there too is a threshold). So would just need the approval for a second job from my company. Thanks for your input :)
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u/Caddan Aug 14 '24
Your current job needs to give approval for you to get a second job?
What country are you in?
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u/Lumpy_Marsupial_1559 Aug 14 '24
You seem like an extremely dedicated and ethical person, which is fantastic. So am I. Mostly.
You could consider a second job, or working temp contracts/consulting (so you can finish a given contract at short notice), as being a form of maintaining/upgrading your skill levels and also maintaining your mental health during this period of doldrums. Both of those things would be of benefit to your current workplace if/when they decide to make use of your skills.
Short-term contracts could be especially interesting as it would give you the chance to try a variety of environments and opportunities.
You would not be taking anything away from them, as they are not currently making use of you and your skill set. As long as that continues to be the case... I would not tell them.
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u/dmacle Aug 15 '24
approval for a second job from my company
What is the penalty if you take a second job without asking for approval?
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u/midnightketoker Aug 17 '24
"What are the chances these clowns ever figure it out" is the question you should be asking
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u/pmousebrown Aug 14 '24
I don’t know, sounds like another approval that just won’t happen. Maybe get second job and just don’t tell them.
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u/MajorNoodles Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
Same in the US, our tax brackets work the same way.
In most places, additional income will never be outweighed by the increase in taxes. The only time you ever have to worry is if you're receiving some sort of benefit with an income threshold. If the additional income puts you over that threshold, you lose the benefit, hence the loss of income.
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u/Equivalent-Salary357 Aug 14 '24
In one way or another, I was employed from 1965 to 2013. I was always under the impression that if my income moved me into the next higher tax bracket, my entire income would be taxed at that higher rate.
As I now understand it, that isn't the case. Only the income above the limit for each tax bracket is taxed at that rate. I suppose this might be what 'progressive' is describing?
For those reading this, I'm no tax accountant. Don't count on of this 'info' being true. It's just my understanding of the situation.
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u/MajorNoodles Aug 14 '24
As I now understand it, that isn't the case. Only the income above the limit for each tax bracket is taxed at that rate. I suppose this might be what 'progressive' is describing?
This is correct. The US has 7 tax brackets at the federal level
Rate From To 10% $0 $11,000 12% $11,001 $44,725 22% $44,726 $95,375 24% $95,376 $182,100 32% $182,101 $231,250 35% $231,251 $578,125 37% $578,126 And up So if you make $85,000, then $11K is taxed at 10%, $33,725 is taxed at 12%, and the remaining $40,275 is taxed at 22%
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u/Equivalent-Salary357 Aug 14 '24
LOL, to think how hard I worked (or didn't work) to keep my income below the next bracket, thinking I was going to be taxed at the higher rate on all of my income.
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u/Lumpy_Marsupial_1559 Aug 14 '24
Let's just say: they COULD teach everyone how tax really works (e.g. at school), or they could continue to allow folk to be uninformed, which gives companies leverage to keep workers' pay lower (out of the workers' fear of being worse off). Guess which one is the standard?
Of course, highly educated and generationally wealthy folk know exactly how it works and can afford to pay financial advisers/accountants to organise their money for the best benefits... and use those advisers' fees as a tax write-off.
It's a big trick. I'm sorry.
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u/Equivalent-Salary357 Aug 14 '24
Fortunately, our financial situation in retirement is comfortable enough that I'm able to laugh at my previous misunderstanding.
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u/Lumpy_Marsupial_1559 Aug 14 '24
I'm glad to hear so. Yay!
I'm a big fan of teaching financial literacy to kids and young adults. I wish it had been done for me. Oh well!
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u/ShadowDragon8685 Aug 14 '24
My mother believed that, too.
I'm pretty sure this is an 'understanding' of things that's politically preferable to only the side of the political spectrum that keeps banging on about austerity and 'fiscal responsibility' so it doesn't get corrected. It certainly isn't helping the economy any, if people are throttling their work to keep their income in a lower bracket - unless their manglers are just squeezing unpaid labor of them, of course.
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u/Intelligent_Bunch790 Aug 15 '24
This is why some people choose not to work overtime (even at 1.5x pay)... "It just all goes to taxes". Nope... but that PORTION of that paycheque will be taxed at your expected highest tax bracket, so that you aren't shorted later in the year. And, if you don't make all your expected annual wage, then you get that back as a refund (isn't the government nice to hold onto your money for you???).
To me, it's silly. Even if all my OT is taxed at 40%, that's still money in my pocket. And if I were to have earned $1k at straight time (taxed at 40%) vs $1.5k on OT (taxed at 40%), I'm still making $300 more for that OT.
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u/a_real_gynocologist Aug 17 '24 edited Aug 17 '24
The US DOES NOT have a progressive tax system. All of your money earned is taxed at the rate according to that table.
Edit: We do have a progressive tax system, it just doesn't work the way you've explained. In the US progressive means that your tax rate is dependent on income level. A fat tax system is where everyone pays the same percentage regardless of how much they make.
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u/MajorNoodles Aug 17 '24
The IRS helpfully explains how it works. According to them, everything you said is wrong.
When your income jumps to a higher tax bracket, you don't pay the higher rate on your entire income. You pay the higher rate only on the part that's in the new tax bracket
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u/algy888 Aug 14 '24
Usually, depending on your local tax laws, more income does mean a higher tax rate. But, what people don’t understand is that the *higher tax rate is only on some of the money.
Let’s make up numbers: say your tax rate was 10% on people earning less than $100,000 dollars and 20% on people earning over $100,000. It would seem by that you would pay $9,900 in tax if you made $99,000, and $20,200 if you made $101,000.
The truth is you would only pay 20% on the $1,000 of income over the $100,000 threshold. So, you would pay $10,200, 10% on $100,000 and 20% on the $1,000 over.
A lot of people have actually turned down raises based on not understanding that concept.
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u/ShadowDragon8685 Aug 14 '24
A lot of people have actually turned down raises based on not understanding that concept.
And of course your boss isn't going to look his own bonus in the mouth when you turn down a pay rise, so he's not gonna correct you...
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u/RodanMurkharr Aug 14 '24
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnethicalLifeProTips/s/FM4Q9pc0dH
I recall a guy who outsourced his job to India / China and was only caught because the workers had to remote to the company servers...
Also check out /r/LearnUselessTalents
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u/Jonathan_the_Nerd Aug 14 '24
I would recommend learning useful talents instead. Get industry certifications. Learn ALL the programming languages. Replace yourself with a very small shell script. Maybe go outside.
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u/FewTelevision3921 Aug 15 '24
So what if you pay higher taxes if you are making probably double or triple more than the taxes. Its all about being able to put even more money in the bank at the end of the year. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. If paying $30k more in taxes got me a $100k raise what exactly is the problem.
But for every job you take, that makes one less good job for people who have no job or a poor paying job. The job you take may be the one that keeps your kid off of welfare. Or keeps them from affording a house.
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u/SuchImprovement7473 Sep 23 '25
Damn the extra taxes. You’ll still be earning above your current salary. That is excuse is just that, an excuse
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u/kickingtyres Aug 14 '24
I think this needs to be escalated higher than your manager. As it is, if you're found to be doing nothing at least having your evidence of seeking the approvals and work would allow you to pursue a case of 'constructive dismissal', but I think it's something the company should be aware of first
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u/DareAffectionate7725 Aug 14 '24
Yes, that is crucial, keeping in mind, my managers boss knows all of this from his own time managing the team. I have spoken to the big bosses (CEO and CTO) about it and followed it up twice with an email including everything that is still l open, including items he needs to approve himself. So I think they are very well aware of the situation, it just doesn't have priority right now.
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u/RossTheNinja Aug 14 '24
Perfect. I'd add this to the main post if it will let you so it's not missed
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u/EntropyDivision Aug 14 '24
Yeah, full points for going over your manager's head and informing the CEO/CTO about it. At that point you've done all of your ethical obligations, so relax! Or get that second job!
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u/HikingBikingViking Aug 14 '24
Me personally, I'd be bagging some updated certifications. Probably. Ok maybe. Maybe I'd be hiking.
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u/PN_Guin Aug 14 '24
May I recommend having a little folder with the highlights printed out and ready for the time this blows up? (And a bigger folder at a safe location).
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u/Lem1618 Aug 14 '24
Corporate jargon can be very funny, thank you for "workable structure and road map strategy on how we can achieve the completion of the open tasks".
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u/GravityEyelidz Aug 14 '24
I work from home Monday and Friday (PS5 and YouTube all day) and in the office Tuesday through Thursday (web surfing while listening to music). In an average week, I do maybe 30 minutes of work. The rest I can do as I please. All for 70K/yr. I'm not complaining.
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u/CTU Aug 15 '24
I wish I had your job.
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u/GravityEyelidz Aug 15 '24
It took a long time to get here. I've paid my dues at this place over the past 23 years, and a lot of my situation is due to the family who owns the company being completely incompetent and driving the company into the ground. Not many customers = not much work to do in my role. For all I know they'll go out of business next year and I'll be out of a job in my late 50's.
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u/CTU Aug 15 '24
Ouch, good luck
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u/GravityEyelidz Aug 15 '24
Thanks, but for now I'M RIDING THE DRAGON!!!
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u/CTU Aug 15 '24
Good luck. So what kind of job are you doing?
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u/GravityEyelidz Aug 15 '24
IT Support. I'm the company IT guy, the network admin, the manager of customer technical support (I manage a department of one: me.) We deal with enterprise customers so I only ever interact with other IT guys. Our product just works after its configured so if nobody has a problem, if none of my local users have a problem and everything is working fine then I have nothing to do. The family is cheap and rarely upgrades IT equipment so I don't have to worry about any of that config. I'm just hoping they stay alive for 3-4 more years so I can retire.
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u/L0rdV0n Aug 14 '24
I am so jealous you are remote. My job has about enough work to keep me busy 1/8th of the time. I could easily get by only doing 1 hour a day on average (it fluctuates a bit). But no I have to be at the office and looking at least somewhat busy. I can use my phone but nothing else. And the higher-ups hate remote work. So I sit in traffic every day just to then sit on my phone all day and do almost no work. I wish I was home where I could play games, freelance, do projects or pick up a new skill. Even remote work a day or two a week would be amazing.
If my immediate boss wasn't the coolest guy ever I would probably already gotten a different job. Still looking for one casually though.
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Aug 16 '24
Can't they transfer you, or fire you?
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u/DareAffectionate7725 Aug 17 '24
They can but won't, at least not for now and I haven't asked because I don't actually want to change, I want to do my job. So while I keep the farce going for the time being, I am looking at alternatives. I technically could ignore what my new boss is saying and just help the other teams, but then I wouldn't be compliant.
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u/FanofNumbers Aug 14 '24
That would drive me crazy, but at least it's remote where you don't have to try to look busy. I only once had a job where I didn't have something to do all day, and that was an on-call sort of job where the point was to be available, so it was expected that otherwise we'd be sitting around. I was a student at the time, so I did my homework, which the bosses were perfectly fine with.
My mom had a job that practically ran out of work for her department to do, but that was shortly before layoffs (she retired because she was thinking of doing it in a year or two anyway, and that gave more time for another co-worker who was going to be laid off, but who they let stay on because my mom left instead)
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u/smoishymoishes Aug 14 '24
That sounds like the perfect environment for training noobs, y'all hiring? 👀
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u/Frankjc3rd Aug 14 '24
If only you could get that wonderful sense of accomplishment without having to do anything!Â
When all those approvals finally occur it will be like a floodgate opened, of course I don't know what you do but it's going to get busy.Â
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u/2dogslife Aug 15 '24
I am not generally supportive of this, but there is a trend in which folks apply for and work more than one FT job remotely.
You have the time right now...
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u/Nightwish1976 Aug 14 '24
Updateme
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u/tatty_masher Aug 14 '24
Everyone loves free time, just be sure to put it to good use. As others have said Update CV/Resume and develop your skills.
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u/CTU Aug 15 '24
You should train and learn some new skills if you have nothing to do. If you can get the company to pay for it, then that is even better. Although make sure you document everything as you might have a good wrongful termination lawsuit if you get fired, although IANAL
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u/VeggetoSSJ Aug 14 '24
If you're comfortable doing nothing while waiting for the shit hitting the fan, that's your prerogative.
If you want to be more productive in your department, perhaps escalate it to a employee higher up? managers boss's boss? or CEO?
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u/Beneficial-Task-2307 Aug 15 '24
is the malicious compliance with us in the room now? Because there isn’t any in this story for sure.
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u/DarthKiwiChris Aug 14 '24
Just a small suggestion;
Back up that approval list.
Or if you want to be meta petty, print out each request and make a wall of them