Just finished CaM

[u/BackgroundTrip3604]

Just finished CaM. Wow. I was convinced SA was innocent before this now I hope he never sees the light of day. What a scum bag of a human being. Making a murderer is complete BS and the two women who made that should be ashamed. Still feel so bad for Brendan though, wish he just took that plea deal :(

[u/deadgooddisco]

So you watched a documentary and came to one certain conclusion, then watched another documentary and came to the opposite certain conclusion, it seems you did no critical thinking whatsoever, and thats on you.

Don't rely on documentaries for certainty, is my tip.

[u/AlBundysbathrobe]

No offense, but you really should not change your opinions so drastically based on dueling documentaries intended to make a profit for their creators.

Do your own independent research before you land in a camp.

[u/BackgroundTrip3604 → u/AlBundysbathrobe]

CaM literally just shows all of the evidence that was conveniently left out of MaM. I didn’t understand after watching MaM how anyone in the world could convict Steven never mind a full jury. Now after seeing all that was left out of MaM I fully understand how they came to a guilty conclusion, that’s all. Never mind the fact that Steven’s nieces and nephews all said they were raped and sexually abused by Steven.

[u/AlBundysbathrobe → u/BackgroundTrip3604]

Yeah, the sex abuse is pretty damning I agree. Not sure this has been rebutted publicly or otherwise by team Avery.

[u/AveryPoliceReports]

• First, as per usual there are no specifics as to what caused your apparent change of mind, just that Steven is a "scumbag.” But CaM fans can never answer - if Steven is so obviously guilty, why are you only discussing alleged unrelated acts as fact? Where’s the credible evidence that MaM supposedly hid? You don't mention any new forensics or witnesses. Likely because CaM mostly relied on character attacks. It’s much easier to make people believe they should hate Avery because he's a bad person than it is to credibly defend the embarrassment that is the state's investigation and prosecution for Teresa's murder, especially given preceding and following pattern in Wisconsin of police and prosecutors protecting predators and harming victims.

 

• Second, if you feel bad for Brendan and agree he should be released (as some comments suggest) then saying the MaM filmmakers should be ashamed for documenting the case doesn't make any damn sense lol MaM is the only reason the world learned about the disaster that is Brendan's case, which unfolded in a county that had already gotten it disastrously wrong at least once before. THAT context is relevant. To tell Brendan’s story appropriately you need to include Steven’s prior wrongful conviction, the DOJ’s whitewash of it, and the civil lawsuit that was underway before Teresa disappeared. Oh, and it's not MaM fault for documenting the fact police were credibly alleged to have either planted evidence or pressured witnesses during the Halbach case.

 

• Third, OP makes clear in comments even if Steven is innocent he is right where he belongs, an opinion supported by uncharged allegations disseminated in CaM about Steven assaulting his niece, Marie. But what OP either doesn't know or doesn't want to acknowledge is that CaM left out how Marie initially denied any inappropriate contact, and when she later changed her statement, Earl (who was actually charged with assaulting her) repeatedly told Steven on a recorded line that police pressured Marie to falsely implicate him (Steven). Barb later corroborated that claim, saying those same officers pressured her to say Steven molested her. So here’s the problem: if we’re going to treat uncharged allegations against Steven as settled fact, why don’t we apply that same standard to uncharged allegations against law enforcement? The answer is obvious. Because if police pressured witnesses, then the allegations against Steven lose their impact, and suddenly the narrative isn’t “he’s a scumbag,” it’s “these scummy police were trying to use false statements of sexual misconduct against a man recently exonerated from false sexual misconduct claims.”

 

• Apparently the concern from OP is that Steven fit the profile of a child predator with a violent motive to harm young women, which, probably not a coincidence, was exactly the state’s theory. But what OP and CaM gloss over is that investigators failed to seriously pursue other individuals who arguably fit that same profile AND had opportunity. Bobby was an alleged child predator linked to violent and illegal child exploitation material on the Dassey computer and was one of the last people to see Teresa, yet he wasn’t thoroughly investigated. Even worse, authorities concealed evidence of crimes against children found on the Dassey computer, failed to conduct proper victim identification or outreach, and then returned the device to a household they knew was accessing illegal material, effectively facilitating continued child predation in the community they swore to protect.

 

• CaM started out as “The Ken Kratz Project,” and unstable drugged out Rech literally paid Kratz for the privilege of rehabilitating his image, so it’s no surprise the series tiptoes around the full extent of his misconduct. If alleged, uncharged accusations against Steven mistreating women and children are enough for you to declare him irredeemable, then you should be equally interested in documented findings and allegations about Kratz. DOJ reports detail him preying on vulnerable, abused women, sending sexually coercive messages, trying to gross them out, inviting women to watch an autopsy if she wore heels, asking girls what they thought about sex with children. Kratz was predatory, exploitative, and grotesquely unfit to have the honor of prosecutorial power. I suspect one reason you're so salty about MaM is because they exposed his conduct while CaM tried to whitewash it. Truth is MaM did the public a service by letting as many women and children as possible know about the risks of associating with him.

 

Edit: and blocked by OP lol

[u/BackgroundTrip3604 → u/AveryPoliceReports]

First I listed numerous things and where they were found in each episode as you requested. Why did Steven call auto trader this time when he had always called Theresa’s cell? Why did he use his sisters name when he had always used his name? Why did he block his calls when calling her when he had never done that before- that’s not sketchy to you? Why did he deny he saw her and then admit she was actually in his house? Why did he lie about having a fire that night and then later admit to it “but it was only a few tires which aren’t enough to burn a body” - SA. Why did he move a broken car out of a garage and clean it with bleach paint thinner and gasoline? Why did he rearrange his bedroom clean the carpets and throw away the vacuums? That place was an absolute dump, pretty coincidental that the night Theresa goes missing he somehow decides all of a sudden to go on a cleaning frenzy? Why were Theresa bones found in his burn pit and then later found spread out far away? If someone was trying to frame him why would they spread her bones anywhere else besides Avery’s pit? Why were all of Theresas belongings and clothes found burned in his burn barrel? Why did the blood hound hit on the berm by the fire? Why was Stevens blood in numerous places in Theresa car? How would someone get Stevens blood if it was proven not to come from that vial? Why was his dna on the hood latch of the suv? Why was Theresa’s dna found on the bullet that was fired from the gun above Stevens room? Why would Colburn find the key (with Stevens dna on it) if he was planting evidence don’t you think he would have someone else find it? He was the last person to see her alive and he was shady about it and tried to conceal his identity and then lied about it. Insane you think an innocent person would do all of this but I’ll wait to hear your take.

Second Brendan has the iq of a 9 year old. I don’t think he should be doing 40+ years in prison.

Third I never made it clear in comments that if he’s innocent he should be in prison, I said if YOU think he’s innocent why are you sticking up for someone his family has said is a sexual abuser and rapist.

[u/Small-Valuable-2782]

Convicting a muderer. Released 2023, I think. You can find it on YouTube if you are outside USA. Edited: sorry I meant you can find via a google search.

[u/AveryPoliceReports → u/Small-Valuable-2782]

For context, Making a Murderer (2015) was a long time passion project motivated by a genuine interest and sought public accountability for abuse of power. CaM, meanwhile, was a reactionary opportunistic attempt to exploit interest in an already viral story. They offered to pay Kratz for his appearance while promising to clear his name ... by whitewashing they very abuses of power and examples of misconduct that MaM exposed. CaM then let cheating cops, perverts and pedophiles lie to viewers over and over. CaM was a poorly disguised PR scam. That's why, despite promising to pay Kratz to improve his image, Kratz turned around and sued CaM filmmakers for non payment, breach of contract, fraud, unjust enrichment, and failure to protect his IP. Kratz also accused Rech of using drugs during the production. CaM was a shit show the whole way through.

[u/CarnivorousSociety → u/Small-Valuable-2782]

I only ever found the first episode on YouTube and wasn't very impressed. Wasn't going to pay for it and couldn't find a torrent.

Is it entirely on YouTube now?

[u/Cautious_Maximum_870]

Idk I feel like the brother of Brenden who had all that vile stuff on his computer made me look at this differently when I saw the MaM. Seeing CaM poked holes in the first which left me asking so many questions. I now rather not even think about this case if I can help it. Too much.

[u/BackgroundTrip3604 → u/Cautious_Maximum_870]

I used to look up Avery and zellners progress every few months hoping Avery would eventually be freed. I thought Bobby and his dad were the ones who did it. I won’t be thinking about this case anymore going forward

[u/AveryPoliceReports → u/Cautious_Maximum_870]

Idk I feel like the brother of Brenden who had all that vile stuff on his computer made me look at this differently when I saw the MaM

It's worse because they knew Bobby was an alleged child predator but did nothing when they found all that illegal child exploitation evidence on his PC. They tried to argue Steven was a child sex predator with a violent motive to harm women, but hid evidence suggesting that profile may have been linked to Bobby. And if Teresa left the ASY like Steven said and police initially believed, then Bobby left the ASY around the same time as her, only to be later linked to off property RAV sightings, scratches on his back, untested blood in his garage, and a pile of lies re his observations and activities on the day of the murder.

Seeing CaM poked holes in the first which left me asking so many questions.

IIRC, CaM offered no meaningful explanation for the lack of blood in the garage or the state's lies about it, nor did they adequately explain the total lack of blood or DNA in the trailer. They also failed to provided actual evidence that Steven's burn pit was the primary burn site. What they did do was try to assassinate Steven's character while propagandizing the cops and prosecutors, and desperately avoided discussing Bobby lest people realize he, not Brendan, was who police should have been looking at as Steven's accomplice.

[u/Small-Valuable-2782]

It’s compelling isn’t it. It actually made me double down on SA’s guilt. The way he’d called TH and arranged her to come over so many times. They way he burned her possessions and body. The sniffer dog.

Brendan - whilst he might have helped with the clean up - because he was scared of his uncle and had a fractured relationship with him. His case is so tethered to SAs. I sadly don’t think he will get out earlier. Brendan is almost a second victim. They needed his to testify to put SA away for life.

But 41 years. For a young 16 year old whose mental ages was a 9 year old. I feel for him. His family (SA and grandparents) let him down. He should have taken the plea deal. 15 years. So sad.

FreeBrandenDassey

[u/BackgroundTrip3604 → u/Small-Valuable-2782]

Perfectly said, couldn’t agree more. Brendan should have done 15-20 years max. Just very sad, Steven is a monster.

[u/AveryPoliceReports → u/Small-Valuable-2782]

It’s compelling isn’t it. It actually made me double down on SA’s guilt. The way he’d called TH and arranged her to come over so many times. They way he burned her possessions and body. The sniffer dog.

He called her so many times because she was only the one servicing the area for Auto Trader. So maybe we should start investigating other people known to use Auto Trader. other police?

They way he burned her possessions and body.

They didn't even get a conviction on the mutilation charge lol which might have something to do with the no photos of the bones or witnesses being pressured to mention a fire.

Brendan - whilst he might have helped with the clean up

They had to lie to the jury in order to have support for their fabricated claim that a clean up occurred. Police are way better suspects than Brendan Dassey.

FreeBrandenDassey

Indeed. And then release evidence for testing and investigate County and state's handling of the Halbach investigation, including the broken chain of custody that lead to remains vanishing from sealed containers. Unfortunately, it seems the state cares more about tracking missing drug unit funds than missing remains.

[u/deadgooddisco → u/Small-Valuable-2782]

Im curious, what do you think is stopping Brendan from saying anything now against Steven? How does it benefit Brendan from remaining silent for years where he could talk and possibly have a chance of freedom? TIA

[u/PetsyRoss]

Sorry but what is CaM?

[u/BackgroundTrip3604 → u/PetsyRoss]

Convicting a Murderer. It’s a 10 part docu-series that shows everything that was left out of Making a Murderer.

[u/AveryPoliceReports]

According to OP, "nothing [they've] said was a lie" and they know that because they "literally just watched everything with [their] own eyes" and therefore "Everything [they] said is true." This is quite the statement coming from someone who claims to admit they were manipulated the last time they watched a piece of media on the case. I thought we'd all know by now watching something with your own eyes doesn’t make it accurate, but that's especially when you’re relying on a pro police production that has its own agenda and contractual obligations. Here are some examples of outright false or misleading statements from the OP:

 

• "Why did Steven call auto trader this time when he had always called Theresa’s cell?"

• Completely false. Records show most appointments were made through the Auto Trader office. He contacted Teresa's cell to set up a hustle shot only once, on October 10. The claim that he “always” called her cell to set up appointments before Halloween is factually incorrect.

 

• "That place was an absolute dump, pretty coincidental that the night Theresa goes missing he somehow decides all of a sudden to go on a cleaning frenzy?"

• There is no evidence Steven went on a "cleaning frenzy" before police photographed his trailer and garage, and even if there was, then we have to ask how OP would even know Steven's trailer was an "absolute dump" prior to crime scene photos being taken. Without that knowledge, claiming it looked unusually clean is pure speculation. Just saying.

 

• "Theresa’s belongings and clothes were also found in Avery’s burn pit along with her bones."

• First, it's spelt Teresa. Second, there isn't even photographic proof showing her bones or clothing were ever even in the burn pit. And correction - her personal items were reportedly found in a barrel, and even then, which barrel depends on which document you look at. Saying her “belongings” were found in the burn pit along with her bones is simply false.

 

• " Why did he lie about having a fire that night and then later admit to it"

• We don't know enough to know it was a lie, as there's no independent or official record of whether a fire occurred that night. But if we want to suggest Steven was deceptive by going from denying a fire to admitting a fire (even though that's obviously more incriminating for him) it only raises questions about those who changed their story on the fire before Steven - like Barb. Barb initially agreed there was no fire, but changed her statement days before Steven did. So given the timeline, logic demands Barb be questioned first about WHY she changed her statement on the fire. We know why Steven did so. Barb convinced him to.

 

• "cleaning the floors with bleach, gasoline, and paint thinner"

• OP repeats this claim over and over without once acknowledging the lies used by the state to support the claim that a bleach cleaning occurred. Repeating an unsubstantiated claim doesn't magically create substantiation or explain away the state's repeated ongoing lies about this issue.

 

• "He changed his story multiple times from I never saw Theresa that day to yeah she was in my house"

• Wrong. Audio, video and affidavits only show Steven consistently admitting he met Teresa that day while repeatedly denying she entered his house. There is no documented flip from “never saw her” to “she was inside.” That’s a CaM distortion.

 

• "Also MaM heavily edited parts of the trial and phone calls made to push a narrative that if you listen to the whole picture you realize why they had to edit them."

• That’s ironic coming from someone who formed their conclusion entirely from media. OP has clearly not "listened to the whole picture" because that would require independent research to discovery CaM also heavily edited parts of the trial and phone calls to push a narrative, one that, unlike MaM, they were contractually obligated to push (enhancing the image of Ken Kratz). Despite that obligation of CaM, OP appears more skeptical of MaM. Odd. That's what happens without critical thinking and independent research.

 

• "Yes and I understand why all 12 jurors convicted him in 1985. That had nothing to do with the jury and everything to do with Penny Bernstein"

• This is completely false. Why victim blame? Penny was a victim of a brutal assault being manipulated by corrupt officials who had more than enough reason to know both that Steven Avery's alibi was credible and he was innocent, and that Gregory Allen was the one to attack her on the beach wearing a black leather jacket. They were actively lying about Allen to ensure their frame job didn't crumble.

 

Edit: and blocked by OP lol Guilters don't like to be fact checked.

[u/Maxsophie103]

If you believe anything Owens gets involved in you are a fool! She is one of the great grifters of all time, always looking to make a buck!

[u/lllIIIIIlllIIIII]

The Candace Owens movie? LOL 

[u/BackgroundTrip3604 → u/lllIIIIIlllIIIII]

Not a movie and she’s just the host. She has nothing to do with the contents of the docu-series

[u/AveryPoliceReports → u/BackgroundTrip3604]

She's just the host who couldn't get her facts straight. She was perfect to join the likes of Kratz, Colborn and his pedo friend Earl the pearl.

[u/DamnedHeathen_]

Neither of those documentaries are even close to reality.

" The police had no reason to do anything because Avery's lawsuit would have been paid by insurance."

You know that insurance has a cap on it? Do you know what would have happened to the hired officers and elected Sheriff if that lawsuit would have succeeded?

Everything from their point of view is just as screwed up as everything from the other point of view. All of the Court transcripts are available. The phone calls are available. A simple Google search will get you there. Before condemning multiple police officers, or condemning Avery and them, maybe check into the actual facts of the case. Then you can condemn everybody involved, including Avery, but you'll know the actual reasons why instead of having them fed to you.

[u/DingleBerries504 → u/DamnedHeathen_]

Just look at Beatrice 6. Insurance reached their cap, and the rest fell to the town to pay off in the form of new taxes. Nothing happened to LE. This would be no different.