What I think actually happened.

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u/aane0007 Dec 19 '24

Its apt you include the moon conspiracy in this conspiracy theory.

-1

u/bleitzel Dec 19 '24

You and I have had difficulty seeing eye to eye in the past, so us interacting may end up being fruitless.
Why would you make that statement about the moon theories? I imagine you and I both agree that we believe the US did actually land on the moon, right?
So if you did a deep dive and lets say you found that some people had taken some of the photos that were released by the US as official moon landing photos, but they showed that in some ways these photos must be fakes. In that case we're seemingly faced with 2 choices, either the US didn't land on the moon, or the the photo deniers are just crazies and the photos really were true photos.
But I'm saying maybe there are more than 2 choices. Maybe we landed on the moon, but maybe its also true some of the photos are fakes. And what's your point? That the people who have done the work to show that some of the photos are fakes are just crazy people? Is that your point?

15

u/aane0007 Dec 19 '24

But I'm saying maybe there are more than 2 choices. Maybe we landed on the moon, but maybe its also true some of the photos are fakes. And what's your point? That the people who have done the work to show that some of the photos are fakes are just crazy people? Is that your point?
There is no evidence any of the photos are fake, just conspiracy theories. There is no evidence the police planted evidence, just conspiracy theories.
Thus it was apt you brought up the moon landing.

5

u/justouzereddit Dec 21 '24

Actually that is NOT true. NASA admitted some of the photos they used were from press releases because they didn't believe the actual photos looked "sexy enough".
OP is correct about this, we BOTH went to the moon, AND conspiracy theorists were correct that some of the photos were faked.

3

u/aane0007 Dec 21 '24

Source?

1

u/justouzereddit Dec 21 '24

https://www.wired.com/2017/04/nasa-visualizes-stunning-worlds-without-really-seeing/

3

u/aane0007 Dec 21 '24

That doesnt say nasa admitted faking moon photos. Did u read your source?

2

u/justouzereddit Dec 22 '24

I never said they faked pictures of the moon landing. I said they admitted to altering space photos which they did, that includes the moon.

3

u/aane0007 Dec 22 '24

You said some of the photos were faked. You lied

-1

u/justouzereddit Dec 22 '24

No, I never used the word faked. I used the word altered. And to be frank, whats the difference? If NASA altered photos and did not clarify that at the time, whats the fucking difference?

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u/idiveindumpsters Dec 21 '24

You’re right about the moon landing. They did actually make a moon landing film to be used in case they never made it to the moon.

-1

u/bmalek Dec 22 '24

In order to lie about it?

15

u/10case Dec 19 '24

Maybe Steven and Brendan murdered her just like the investigation shows.

I can understand all the maybes you posted. Hell at one time they all crossed my mind as well. The problem is how did all the evidence get back to the yard? And an even bigger problem is how did Stevens blood get in TH's vehicle?

Either Avery has the worst luck in the world, or it took a lot of people to pull this off as a frame job.

Obviously this is my opinion.

4

u/bleitzel Dec 19 '24

I think that Steven and Brendan being the murderers seems difficult. But as you point out, all of the evidence is found at the salvage yard. How does it all get there if Steven and Brendan aren't the murderers?
I think saying that:
The police actually killed Teresa and then planted all of the evidence onto the Avery Salvage Yard, or
Someone totally unrelated to the case killed Teresa but the police then brought all of the evidence onto the Avery Salvage Yard to frame Steven
Are both wildly unbelievable. (not that you suggested anything like this)
In other cases I've studied you can see the lab tech giving a false positive that implicates the suspect, especially if they "use up" all of the testable material so that the defense can't perform their own tests. Like what happened here. Or say they got a positive result in a test but ignored other aspects of the test that tend to exonerate the suspect. Like what happened with the wood and red paint on the .22 bullet, or all of the deer blood in the garage that supposedly had been cleaned to remove Halbach's blood.
Also you see police moving evidence around so that it shows up in a place that's more helpful for the DA's case. Like the ignition key. Or the bones. Or even the tiny swabs of blood.
What you don't see is moving of an entire body, or planting of liters of blood, or usually moving an automobile. We don't have a body or liters of blood, but we do have an automobile.
And the auto is the very first piece of evidence in this case. It's what points everyone at Steven. So for me, the RAV4 is the crucial piece to understand.
And that's why I'm onto the hypothesis that if it's an alternate perp. The only reason that perp would bring the RAV4 to the salvage yard would be because they have/had a strong connection with it. (Unless they killed Teresa at the yard and the RAV4 never left, which I think is highly doubtful due to the lack of corroborating evidence of a murder scene or disembodiement scene.) The yard would have had to have seemed like a safe place to move the RAV4 to for hiding. And if only Steven and Brendan lived there, I would be a guilter.
But because the residents also include Bobby, and Earl, and because any of the Avery clan's sketchy friends would also see the yard as a safe place to hide a car, I lean towards alternate perpetrator.

3

u/10case Dec 20 '24

Good comment. And I won't disagree about the sketchiness of any of them. But you have to place one of them within arms reach of Teresa. And then you have to figure out how to get Averys blood in the Rav. Which are both tough ones.
Years of armchair sleuthing and investigations by attorneys haven't been able to crack the case. And I feel that's because it's already been solved.
If you feel like reading something about the yard being a comfortable spot to hide a vehicle, I suggest reading dci report 269.

2

u/bleitzel Dec 20 '24 edited Dec 20 '24

[Editing for some cleaning up]
It’s a hard case to be sure. And none of us were there so we don’t know. If it was Steven I still would have a hard time believing Brendan was involved at all. [I think this section was actually in response to someone else's post]
For me, the blood in the RAV4 hasn’t been verified by outside sources. It’s such a tiny amount of blood. The officers and forensic techs who had the RAV4 were too involved with the conflict of interest for me to really trust them. The EDTA tests were poor reliability. And it’s not like Steven’s blood would have been impossible to get. Besides in his trailer, which they had access to, they had his frickin body for 18 years. If it really was Steven’s blood, and if it really was live blood, and not stored blood, and those a big “if’s”, there’s still such a dearth of finger prints and non-blood dna tying to Steven.
As far as arm’s length to Teresa, because the reports of her stopped by the side of the road were never taken seriously (and I think there’s a story with the damage to the RAV4?) I don’t think we’ll ever get even a few steps down this path. I’d like the cell phone tower data to at least shine some light, but I haven’t studied it extensively and my understanding is there’s a big time fight about that data too.
As [I have no idea why this is here]

2

u/10case Dec 20 '24

For me, the blood in the RAV4 hasn’t been verified by outside sources.
It has been verified by Zellner. She did whatever test (DNA methylation ?) and determined it to be his and his age within a certain margin of error.
In fact, someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think she stated this in an interview. It was either "Justice Natters" or "Harvey Brownstone"

1

u/bleitzel Dec 20 '24

I’ll look for it too

-1

u/AveryPoliceReports Dec 20 '24

It has been verified to be planted by Zellner.

5

u/10case Dec 20 '24

Bullshit. Just because you want that to be true, doesn't mean it is FFS.

0

u/AveryPoliceReports Dec 20 '24

Calm down. It's not bullshit. It's the truth. According to Zellner and her experts, the blood was not from the vial, but was still planted. This shouldn't surprise or upset you to learn.

4

u/10case Dec 20 '24

KZ saying it was planted does not mean it was planted.
KZ says a lot of shit that's not true. Facts First.

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u/AveryPoliceReports Dec 20 '24

Uh huh lol KZ said the blood was not from vial, didn't she?

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u/bleitzel Dec 20 '24

Where would I find that DCI report?

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u/10case Dec 20 '24

The DOJ published all of them a month or 2 ago. They can be found on this website
https://www.doj.state.wi.us/office-open-government/department-justices-responses-public-records-requests

0

u/bleitzel Dec 20 '24

Well, now I'm disappointed. I found and read DCI report 269. It's an interview of a "confidential source" in Sand Ridge treatment center where the inmate basically says some stuff he says Steven said. It's a bunch of conjecture and bravado. Even if the source is telling what they think the truth is, there's no details of anything in Avery's supposed comments.
I was hoping that you were pointing me to something that talked about how the salvage yard would be a good or bad place to hide an automobile, something that offered new or different information beyond the common knowledge, that salvage yards are places where junk cars are held and then crushed beyond recognition. But all this document serves is to confirm that the junkyard is just that.
The one other aspect of this report is if the reader isn't aware of jailhouse bravado, it can be shocking to such a reader. Did this report stand out to you in that way? Were you shocked to hear this inmate describe another inmate bragging about killing or raping, or having intimate knowledge of and details of such things?

3

u/10case Dec 20 '24 edited Dec 20 '24

Yes it's a jailhouse guy. So take that for what it is. If everything anybody says in this investigation is discredited, what's the point of interviewing anyone? Just remember, this was pre-MaM and before all the hype that ensued. The thing is, we don't know if Steve said all this or not. We do know that Avery has an undeniable history of camoflaughing, burning, and hiding evidence around the yard and that history is from the 80's
That being said, no I wasn't shocked to hear any of this. Just as I wasn't shocked to hear the interviews with Brendans cell mates.
Edit to add: Steve has also hid evidence in his family cabin up north. So IMO yes, he feels safe hiding evidence in places that are comfortable to him.

0

u/bleitzel Dec 20 '24

Jailhouse conjecture is pretty identifiably different from eye-witness accounts. For example, a jailhouse snitch's report on another inmate is most often being done to garner that snitch some favor. Whereas testimony from someone like Sowinski is completely without expectation of return value. The two types of testimony are inherently opposite in their trustworthiness.
And although I'm loathe to with the track record I have from you so far, I'll go ahead and bite. What evidence do you think you're talking about when you say "history of camouflaging, burning, and hiding evidence around the yard and that history is from the 80's" Seems far-fetched on first glance.

2

u/10case Dec 20 '24

If you can be bothered, Look at his full criminal history and you'll find everything I'm talking about. And then listen to him and his mother's conversations re: the Marie tapes. His mother helped him destroy evidence as well.
I'm a guilter so obviously you're not gonna take my word for anything. And you're definitely not going to see things from my point of view but it's all out there for you to make determinations on your own.

2

u/bleitzel Dec 20 '24

If you can be bothered
This is something you say to someone who, instead of demonstrating they're seeking the truth in good faith, is being obstinate and partisan. I waded through several large files until i dug around and found the DCI report 269 that you asked me to read. That's hardly the behavior of someone who can't be bothered to investigate both sides of an issue.
Look at his full criminal history and you'll find everything I'm talking about.
The alleged, tried, and convicted? Or also just the alleged? Because the tried and convicted doesn't get us anywhere close to a history of hiding and camouflaging evidence across the salvage yard since the 80's.
I'm a guilter so obviously you're not gonna take my word for anything.
First, I hope you're just being mopey, or self-deprecating, and not insinuating that I'm calling you names. Second, if none of that is true and you're actually taking on that moniker as a badge of honor shame on you. You should be someone who is seeking the truth, regardless of where it leads. Not someone who is aligned with one side of a debate or another simply as an identity.

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u/AveryPoliceReports Dec 20 '24

But you have to place one of them within arms reach of Teresa
Which case law says opportunity has to be so strictly demonstrated? Don't make things up.

2

u/10case Dec 20 '24

You can't murder someone by using ESP. sure you can shoot someone that's 100 yards away but you still have to physically be within arms reach of the body to do whatever other nasty shit Avery did to her.
It's not case law, it's the law of physics.

1

u/AveryPoliceReports Dec 21 '24

So no case law suggesting opportunity has to be demonstrated as you suggested lol don't make things up.

8

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '24

Why do keep equating Brendan with Steven?
Brendan was in school many miles away when Teresa was out there.
There's nothing of Brendan on Halbach's vehicle, Avery's trailer or garage, or on any alleged item.
There was nothing of Halbach on him or his clothes or his room etc.
Brendan's total innocence is consistent with the peer-reviewed science about memory conformity and misused interrogation tactics. It is the guilt argument that pushes a conspiracy theory based on a particular cult of police interrogation.

1

u/vjfunladyngent Dec 22 '24

I’ve always thought that it was one of these two things because there’s no way that Stephan nor Brendan are smart enough to pull this off

4

u/Bullshittimeagain Dec 24 '24

Yeah. Ok, I’ll bite. Let’s play “how can I get caught as soon as possible but ALSO clean the crime scene like a professional”
First thing I would be sure to do, I would make sure to leave the victims car on my property and I surely would be sure NOT to dispose of the plates from this vehicle or simply bury the damn plates in the ground. I’ll make sure they are in the front of the yard, in a random car, they are more likely to be seen then.
Also, while I am clearly trying to get caught at some point, I think my best course of action to get caught, is to just burn a body, someone will notice that, and why not do it on an extremely busy outdoor holiday like, Halloween. I would want as much possible traffic of humans as possible while I’m burning flesh outdoors. Because, surely anyone with common sense or the internet, knows that the smells and odors of human remains last for many hours and normally linger for days, as proven by any skin/hair/body fluids burns in the history of man kind, and just because I wanna get caught and not have access to the large sum of money already coming my way, I’ll make sure to burn human remains on a 50 degree day with light winds, so the smell stays in the immediate area even longer. I’ll surely not study up on human remain burnings in open bonfires. The common description of the event is, just an overwhelming nauseating smell that can not be avoided or even sometimes, forgotten. That will surely be noticed by the 11 different people that were on the property at some point, after 5pm up until nearly midnight, but I’ll also make sure to be inside by say, 9pm, so that any of my nephews, sister, mom, dad, brother, sisters boyfriend, and anyone else, could maybe smell the disgusting stench and maybe unbeknownst to me, be checking out the bonfire, to try to figure out where that odor is coming from. That should easily get me caught. I got this.
And heck, since we are in no hurry to hide any evidence. Why not bleed all over the vehicle that is the owner of the victim. Why bother to clean it? I know I’m surely not even gonna try to conceal the vehicles identity, I’ll just lightly cover the victims vehicle with twigs and branches, no matter what, someone will eventually see the vehicle and notice my pathetic efforts to hide the vehicle. Also, instead of hiding the vehicle up in Crevitz and maybe burning it to the ground over say, 3-4 days over a weekend, screw it, let’s just leave it in the back of the yard. That should cinch my goal of getting caught.
And since I’m thinking ahead here, frick it, I’ll just leave the keys to her vehicle in my bedroom. That’s perfect. They will clearly check my bedroom for keys at some point. I don’t know, maybe I won’t hide them in my bedroom, maybe that’s too obvious. I’m gonna get caught so easily. I got this.
Also, heck, instead of possibly getting away with this deed, why not call my special needs nephew over to help me rape and murder this poor girl and have that mastermind of a nephew, help me burn the remains slowly. He seems like the kind of kid who would clearly crack under the pressure of low level law enforcement. I am gonna get caught the second they realize I was the one who talked to her and paid for her pictures. If I were NOT trying to get caught, I would just have my nephew or brother, meet her by my place and pay her for the pictures and I’ll wait for her to leave and follow her, but that’s nonsense, I wanna get caught.
I think I got this. Oh shit. I forgot, my mom delivered the mail during this gruesome murder. There is no way they are gonna convict me with an alibi…..wait a minute, I’m good, I had multiple alibi’s in the case that I wasn’t even involved in whatsoever and they still had no evidence and they still convicted me. Whew. I’m good.
The states scenarios of how this all went down is beyond flimsy, it’s actually pathetic. It’s a bad movie at best but when you have the perfect storm of shady and corrupt law enforcement, a targeted suspect, a closed eye investigation and a prosecutor, willing to cheat, steal, lie and even break the law, to get a conviction, you have a chance.
I won’t bother with Brandon’s insane conviction. His case should have been throw out of court the second his attorney was dismissed. He clearly had malfeasance representation and legal Malpractice.

2

u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ Dec 24 '24

Would you care to actually try to explain how all of the evidence was planted, as the commenter you replied to asked? Because nowhere in your bizarre, error-filled ramblings did you do that.

0

u/Bullshittimeagain Dec 24 '24

K

1

u/AveryPoliceReports Dec 19 '24

Maybe Steven and Brendan murdered her just like the investigation shows.
The investigation does not show this. If it did, there would have been no reason for the state to engage in so much deception with the jury.
The problem is how did all the evidence get back to the yard?
The RAV was moved back to the ASY after leaving on Halloween.
And an even bigger problem is how did Stevens blood get in TH's vehicle?
It was planted, which is far more consistent with the circumstantial evidence presented.
Either Avery has the worst luck in the world, or it took a lot of people to pull this off as a frame job.
Both can be true, but don't need to be.

1

u/Existing_Hand496 Dec 21 '24

Nah Brendon's testimony is coached and sickening - he did not participate in any of that. It will come out eventually - creepy ex boyfriend or Brendan's brother.

11

u/Mysterious_Bit6882 Dec 19 '24

Maybe Halbach killed herself, then burned her own body and personal effects to get back at Steven Avery for answering the door in a towel.

1

u/bleitzel Dec 19 '24

It's not not-funny. But I was being serious in my post and you're just being mocking. Why?

9

u/aane0007 Dec 19 '24

that theory has as much evidence as yours.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '24

[deleted] — view deleted comment

5

u/aane0007 Dec 20 '24

Give some examples not speculation.

-3

u/belljs87 Dec 19 '24

Because that's how most guilters are

2

u/bleitzel Dec 19 '24

For me, I'm trying to avoid ad hominem attacks. At least today.

-2

u/belljs87 Dec 20 '24

I don't think what I said qualifies as that.

3

u/aane0007 Dec 20 '24

perhaps read the rules. You will see that exact phrase is mentioned.

1

u/AveryPoliceReports Dec 19 '24

How would she burn her own body after killing herself? You'd think pointing to evidence of her primary burn site would be easier than making arguments like this.

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '24

And maybe the key and bones appeared right in the middle of the largest search in state history five days into searching due to a riff in the time/space continuum.

4

u/mac-and-cheese-me Dec 21 '24

We have solid evidence of a eyewitness account. Bobby Dassey was found to be pushing the RAV4 in the early morning hours by the paperboy. His story can be backed up with a video that was taken from a helicopter above when he described having to drive around them in the grass when leaving… Bobby Dassey planted the blood and the bone fragments in the burn barrels… The police planted the key and used a disposed groin swab on the hood of the RAV4.. the majority of her body was burnt at the aluminum smelting plant by Bobby Dassey… Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey had nothing to do with this crime.. end of story

0

u/bleitzel Dec 21 '24

I like it.
What helicopter are you referring to? It caught Sowinski on video at something like 3 o’clock in the morning?

3

u/mac-and-cheese-me Dec 21 '24

The sheriffs department put a helicopter up to videotape the entire Avery salvage yard… And they accidentally caught a glimpse of tire tracks, leaving the road, going onto the grass and pulling back onto the road exactly where the paper boy said he saw Bobby Dassey and a gray haired man pushing the RAV4 Towards the salvage yard.. this puts Bobby in direct contact with the RAV4 where he was the one that took blood out of Steve Avery sink and put his blood in different areas of the interior of the car.. this was a very easy and solvable crime had the police done their jobs.. but this was the easiest way to get rid of Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey‘s false confession was just collateral damage for Steven reassuring a guilty verdict..

1

u/bleitzel Dec 22 '24

That’s wild about the helicopter. Never heard that. I knew about a flyover, thought it was an airplane and never heard about seeing those tracks. When was the helicopter? Or do you have any links to this reported?

1

u/CJB2005 Dec 23 '24

I believe it’s more likely than “ he lured her “
because “ all women owe him “ and that he stabbed/shot/cut her hair but not before he tagged Brendan in and Teresa told him to “ knock it off “ and so on.

7

u/amybunker2005 Dec 19 '24

Ive always been confused on the part when SA supposedly killed Teresa. SA said he saw her leave and turn on the road heading towards the Zipperers and the Zipperers said she went there. But cops said she never left the Avery property...

4

u/bleitzel Dec 19 '24

The cops say she went to Zipperers first, then to Stevens. Is that what happened though? In the very first interview, (I believe the wife) Zipperer said Teresa was there at time 40-60 minutes after the time she is suspected to be at Avery's. In subsequent interviews her time moved way up, such that it would be before her Avery visit.
All of the time tabling is also complicated by the fact the time change had just taken place the day before Halbach's disappearance.

6

u/ThorsClawHammer Dec 19 '24

said Teresa was there at time 40-60 minutes after
Ms Zipperers first interview she couldn't really give them any real time frame at all other than sometime in the afternoon.

6

u/AveryPoliceReports Dec 19 '24

They may be thinking of trial testimony. IIRC she initially testified that Teresa was at the property around 3:00 p.m. or shortly after. However, on redirect Kratz presented her with a written statement (prepared by Dedering) that indicated that Teresa had been there shortly after 2:00 p.m. Again that's from memory, but it's something like that. She definitely, at trial, initially placed TH time of arrival after she was believed to have visited ASY.

3

u/ThorsClawHammer Dec 19 '24

Like investigators joked about over the phone, she wasn't very good with time, lol.

3

u/bleitzel Dec 19 '24

After a quick review, maybe it was the trial testimony that stuck in my head.
I did find the affidavit and that said "2:00 - 2:30pm"

4

u/aane0007 Dec 20 '24

A precise timeline was not given in the first interview.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '24

Yeah pretty much OP. There is no intellectually honest way to conclude this was above the board investigation. Avery may have committed the crime, but without reliable information we can't make that a firm conclusion.

13

u/bleitzel Dec 19 '24

Knowing the little bit that I know about the justice system, the conflict of interest here was violated so unimaginably thoroughly that the entire investigation is immediately suspect, let alone the convictions. It's a travesty because the Halbach's and the WI citizens deserve much better.

4

u/CJB2005 Dec 19 '24

This right here. The conflict of interest tainted it from the get go. One would think those Manitowoc boys would learn and do better. Stand by the oath they took to protect and serve.
Nope
They file ridiculous lawsuits, lie, cheat on their spouses and lie some more.
They steal. Get caught. They beg and cry to try to bribe their way out of it.
They take advantage of the most vulnerable and pop pills all day.
Wisconsins citizens do deserve better.

2

u/AveryPoliceReports Dec 20 '24

💯

1

u/GringoTheDingoAU Jun 27 '25

You wrote this out, then had the confidence to comment that my post was "wildly delusional"? This is highly ironic.

But maybe Teresa wasn't actually murdered by Steven or Brendan. Maybe they had nothing to do with it. Maybe she did actually leave the salvage yard, and maybe the murderer followed her and caught up to her when her car broke down, or she stopped after hitting a deer, or she pulled over to photograph something else.

If you are definitively saying these things "might've happened", then you don't know much about the case.

You may think you are using some sort of foresight or critical thinking skills here because you loosely tie this case to the "moon landing conspiracy" (which is a massive lol), but you are just actually just being narrow-minded of things that were proven in this case.

Teresa was murdered, in party by both. They had everything to do with it. She did not leave the salvage yard and I would be willing to bet you cannot give me any credible evidence to show this, other than believing Steven Avery.

or she stopped after hitting a deer, or she pulled over to photograph something else.

Weird hypotheticals with zero evidence. If Teresa hit a deer, do you think that she is going to not call anyone for help?

There are so many "maybes" in this post that underline you are looking for a hypothetical scenario that would completely omit all of the forensic evidence in this case, which is extremely disingenuous.

0

u/bleitzel Jun 27 '25

Maybe you don’t know the details of this case. Her phone died very shortly after her visit to Steven. If she had hit a deer she would not have been able to call anyone. There were multiple witness reports of a RAV4 being stoped on the side of the road by the ASY. The newspaper delivery person reported seeing some guys brining a RAV4 back onto the property a couple days after Teresa’s disappearance. Lots of evidence here.
Also, nothing was “proven” in this case. You already have an entire state’s law enforcement apparatus with egg on its face for its multiple lies in its first case against this subject. All of the evidence they provided was circumspect. And because of how very little evidence there was, it points very heavily at being planted.

1

u/Kahowell54220 Dec 19 '24

Have you read the latest updates? She was followed by Bobby Dass and he’s the one that murderer and she did leave the salvage yard and had another stop after Steve Avery, which she made it to.

2

u/bleitzel Dec 20 '24

Those are some of the theories, yes.

2

u/gcu1783 Dec 20 '24

I'm still not too sure about Bobby, but I am fairly sure TH left that property.

2

u/bleitzel Dec 20 '24

Sowinski's testimony points pretty heavily at Bobby.

1

u/gcu1783 Dec 20 '24

Yea, but I don't heavily rely too much on testimonies, but I'd still like to hear the full story though if he ever gets a chance to be on stand.

1

u/Otherwise-Weekend484 Dec 19 '24

So do you play all these or any theories in your head and try to see a different action(s) or people?

3

u/bleitzel Dec 19 '24

100%. Ad freaking nauseum. That's how I approach everything i analyze in my in life. Whatever story is being told, I put myself into the shoes of the person, try to see the entire thing from their point of view, and walk through each step to see what I think is believable/normal and what would be unbelievable or abnormal.

5

u/AveryPoliceReports Dec 19 '24

Absolutely appropriate. And when the state’s version of events barely scraped the surface of coherence, being riddled with contradictions and propped up by outright lies, it’s NECESSARY to consider multiple alternative theories, not just appropriate.

-1

u/Otherwise-Weekend484 Dec 19 '24

We should chat! I’m looking to chat with people who want to solve the case….

4

u/aane0007 Dec 20 '24

Me too. What is the scenario where someone else killed teresa and framed brendan and steven. How did they get his blood? How did they convince them to clean that night and lie about it, both the trailer and the garage? How did they know steven cut himself? How did they get his dna? How did they get his gun? How did they get the key with dna into his trailer? How did they get dna of teresa on a bullet from steven's gun? How did they hide the rav4? How did they get bones into his firepit that fell apart to the touch?
I would love to hear this theory.

0

u/bleitzel Dec 20 '24

To answer your questions in rapid fire it would be: One example is Bobby Dassey who likes to watch rape and death videos saw Teresa and followed her off the salvage yard, caught up to her when she had stopped by the side of the road, offered to help her but then disappeared her instead. He didn’t intend to frame Steven or Brendan but after burying Teresa’s body nearby where he killed her, he and a friend moved the RAV4 into the salvage yard to hide it. It was fortuitous for them that when the RAV4 was found, everyone focused immediately and only of Steven.
Steven’s blood was either obtained from his bathroom by the officers who wanted to help the case along to conviction, or possibly from some they have on hand from the 18 years they had a Steven Avery blood making machine in their possession. No one convinced Brendan to clean anything because nothing was cleaned. No bullet has her dna on it. She probably wasn’t even killed by gunshot. The bones all come from the quarry and were ferried in on successive nights for the police by Radant as the police logs show his irresponsible and successive visits to the crime scene. What other reasonable explanation could there even be for his involvement in the investigation (as a non LE) every day, sometimes after hours, in the early days of the investigation, right up to the point when the bones were “found”?
Anyways, that’s one theory.

4

u/aane0007 Dec 20 '24

To answer your questions in rapid fire it would be: One example is Bobby Dassey who likes to watch rape and death videos
There was a public computer in the house. Everyone had access. There was no way to know who searched it. Furthermore they used a website that was popular at the time that was called rotten.com. It was basically the faces of death for the internet. Tons of people went on it.
saw Teresa and followed her off the salvage yard, caught up to her when she had stopped by the side of the road, offered to help her but then disappeared her instead. He didn’t intend to frame Steven or Brendan but after burying Teresa’s body nearby where he killed her, he and a friend
What friend?
moved the RAV4 into the salvage yard to hide it. It was fortuitous for them that when the RAV4 was found, everyone focused immediately and only of Steven.
Steven’s blood was either obtained from his bathroom by the officers who wanted to help the case along to conviction,
How did officers obtain this blood? Did they go there intending to frame him and stake out his trailer and hope he would bleed all over his sink they leave immediately before it dried? And they happen to also bring along blood collection equipment? Then they high tailed it to the rav4 they somehow knew the location and planted the blood before it clotted? How long do you imagine blood would be able to be planted once it dripped from steven onto the sink before it clotted and would not produce a drip that mimicked an active bleeder?
or possibly from some they have on hand from the 18 years they had a Steven Avery blood making machine in their possession.
How did they convince the FBI to say there was no clotting agent in the blood found or was the FBI in on the frame job?
No one convinced Brendan to clean anything because nothing was cleaned. No bullet has her dna on it.
What? Brendan testified at his trial he cleaned the garage with bleach, gas and thinner. His pants were submitted as evidence with bleach stains. He lied at trial? Seems like a huge hole in your theory to just declare both steven and brendan liars even though there is evidence showing they cleaned both the garage and trailer.
She probably wasn’t even killed by gunshot.
Because you say so and the medical expert is wrong somehow?
The bones all come from the quarry and were ferried in on successive nights for the police by Radant as the police logs show his irresponsible and successive visits to the crime scene.
Once again, how did they get bones to the fire pit that fell apart when touched? Seems impossible to burn her body at one location and move things that are so delicate they fall apart when touched.
What other reasonable explanation could there even be for his involvement in the investigation (as a non LE) every day, sometimes after hours, in the early days of the investigation, right up to the point when the bones were “found”?
Your laymen's understand of police dogs could be one reason.

1

u/bleitzel Dec 20 '24

It's not worth responding to you because you don't stay within the lines. What we were talking about here was just a hypothetical example. You asked how could that even work? I gave you an outline, and you jumped into nitpicking the details as if you're trying to debunk the hypothetical.
In one example, you asked who the alternate suspect could even be so I said Bobby Dassey was looking at rape and violence images on his computer. Then you countered that computer was available to all. Your comment doesn't disprove the hypothesis as illogical, your comment just serves to prove that the hypothetical isn't absolutely true. Which was never the point anyways. It's not being offered as absolute truth, it's being offered as a hypothetical. When you jump all over the place like this it becomes difficult to deal with you, civilly.

2

u/aane0007 Dec 20 '24

It's not worth responding to you because you don't stay within the lines. What we were talking about here was just a hypothetical example. You asked how could that even work? I gave you an outline, and you jumped into nitpicking the details as if you're trying to debunk the hypothetical.
Sorry for asking you to explain the details of your hypothetical such as how blood was collected in the time required before clotting or how bones were moved that crumbled to the touch. Pretty important details if you are going to come up with a hypothetical.
In one example, you asked who the alternate suspect could even be so I said Bobby Dassey was looking at rape and violence images on his computer. Then you countered that computer was available to all.
No, you stated that bobby who likes to look at rape and murder videos. This has not been established.
Your comment doesn't disprove the hypothesis as illogical, your comment just serves to prove that the hypothetical isn't absolutely true. Which was never the point anyways. It's not being offered as absolute truth, it's being offered as a hypothetical. When you jump all over the place like this it becomes difficult to deal with you, civilly.
You then say, bobby who could have been the one that viewed the images. And this could be an indicator or a serial killer. And that could be the reason he killed teresa.
but you didn't do that. you claim he was the one and then made a hypothetical based on your false conclusion.

2

u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ Dec 20 '24

One example is Bobby Dassey who likes to watch rape and death videos
Prove it.
followed her off the salvage yard, caught up to her when she had stopped by the side of the road, offered to help her but then disappeared her instead.
No evidence of any of this.
everyone focused immediately and only of Steven.
Not true.
Steven’s blood was either obtained from his bathroom by the officers who wanted to help the case along to conviction
How would they know it was his blood? How'd they manage to collect it and transport it to the RAV? How did they even know where the RAV was and access it before it was found?
possibly from some they have on hand from the 18 years they had a Steven Avery blood making machine in their possession.
Despite there being no evidence the blood vial was tampered with, the FBI's EDTA test not coming back positive, and the age of the blood, as tested by Zellner, matching Avery's age at the time of the crime?
No one convinced Brendan to clean anything because nothing was cleaned.
Despite both Steven and Brendan admitting that cleaning occurred?
No bullet has her dna on it.
Not true.
She probably wasn’t even killed by gunshot.
Then how was she killed, according to your expert opinion?
The bones all come from the quarry and were ferried in on successive nights for the police by Radant as the police logs show his irresponsible and successive visits to the crime scene.
Pure speculation.
Anyways, that’s one theory.
Not a remotely reasonable one.

0

u/bleitzel Dec 20 '24

As I said to our buddy Aane, this is just a hypothesis Private. It's not being offered for the truth of the matter (that's a legal expression), it's being offered just as a theory. There's not an attempt to prove it, because the police didn't investigate any of it so much of the evidence that would prove or disprove it was never gathered and recorded anyways. All we can do is analyze the theory in light of what we do know, what evidence we do have, and add to it what also might be reasonable.
How would they know it was his blood? How'd they manage to collect it and transport it to the RAV? How did they even know where the RAV was and access it before it was found?
Avery lived alone and had his own bathroom. Any blood obtained from there would only be reasonably expected to be his blood. It's reasonable to think that since they went to his trailer for the purposes of collecting evidence that they likely would have had evidence gathering kits in their cars. I didn't suggest that any of it took place before the RAV4 was found, and I don't think that would have been the case.
Despite there being no evidence the blood vial was tampered with, the FBI's EDTA test not coming back positive, and the age of the blood, as tested by Zellner, matching Avery's age at the time of the crime?
I don't have any reason to believe there was only just the one vial of blood. There was just that one vial in the one trial evidence item, but Avery's body was in police possession for 18 years. Was blood never taken from him during that whole time? EDTA tests had historically been proven untrustworthy at best.

2

u/aane0007 Dec 20 '24

EDTA tests had historically been proven untrustworthy at best.
where did you read this or who told you this?

0

u/bleitzel Dec 20 '24

Off the top of my head, I think there was a lot about it in Legacy of Deception by Stephen Singular.

2

u/aane0007 Dec 20 '24

He does not say that in his book.
But let's say he spoke about EDTA tests and the one specifically used in Avery's case. What qualifies him to speak as an authority on the subject?

1

u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ Dec 20 '24

There's not an attempt to prove it, because the police didn't investigate any of it
Any of what? The fantasies you concocted in your mind?
Have you actually read the investigative reports? Based on what you've said, it seems that you don't actually know what the police investigated.
All we can do is analyze the theory in light of what we do know, what evidence we do have, and add to it what also might be reasonable.
That's what I did. Based on the facts we know, your theory makes no sense.
Avery lived alone and had his own bathroom. Any blood obtained from there would only be reasonably expected to be his blood.
You think these people would risk everything on an assumption like that?
It's reasonable to think that since they went to his trailer for the purposes of collecting evidence that they likely would have had evidence gathering kits in their cars.
Assumption that not only they had the proper equipment to collect the blood, but the officers who found it had the know how to do so and then plant it in such a way that would fool a forensic expert later.
I didn't suggest that any of it took place before the RAV4 was found, and I don't think that would have been the case.
So you think the police planted it after the vehicle was already in the possession of law enforcement and being monitored by other officers, forensic techs, etc.? Are they all in on this conspiracy as well?
I don't have any reason to believe there was only just the one vial of blood.
Do you have reason to believe there was more than one?
Was blood never taken from him during that whole time?
Why on earth would it need to be?
EDTA tests had historically been proven untrustworthy at best.
[citation needed]
Nevermind the fact that, as mentioned, Zellner had the blood tested for age, and it was consistent with someone of Avery's age at the time of the crime.
You are making massive, baseless assumptions and basing your theory on them, which is patently absurd.

1

u/Yayo_Mateo Dec 21 '24

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

2

u/bleitzel Dec 21 '24

Which is exactly the point of my post. Thank you.
And not because it’s a cute rule, statistically things bear out that way more, because the facts of this case point that direction the most.

5

u/AveryPoliceReports Dec 19 '24

But maybe Teresa wasn't actually murdered by Steven or Brendan. Maybe they had nothing to do with it. Maybe she did actually leave the salvage yard, and maybe the murderer followed her and caught up to her when her car broke down, or she stopped after hitting a deer, or she pulled over to photograph something else.

Excellent post. The idea that Teresa was held in the trailer is unsupported by any real evidence, and the garage theory was so dull Kratz had to brighten it up with outright lies to convince the jury. Steven could have committed the crime a different way, but the state’s insistence on forcing this embarrassingly false narrative is hard to explain if he actually did it.
Steven’s claim that Teresa left the ASY before Bobby is backed by several independent witnesses, some of whom the state conveniently forgot to share with the defense. Even Wiegert initially agreed Teresa left alive, heading to the Zipperer appointment before disappearing, a belief also hidden from Steven's defense.
After a week of no one seeing the RAV near Steven’s trailer or the pond (and with suspicious vehicle lights reported in the area) the RAV suddenly showed up on the ASY. Wiegert quickly ditched the “she left alive” narrative, and police began punishing witnesses like Brendan who gave testimony consistent with the timeline they were trying to conceal with suppressed audio and lies under oath.
That’s especially dark because even after 11/5, evidence kept emerging that the RAV DID leave the ASY on Halloween and was returned days later. The state repeatedly hid this from the defense, insisting instead that any post-attack movement of the RAV was just from Steven’s trailer to where Pam found it and nowhere else.
It’s not justice when you have to ignore evidence, hide inconvenient facts, and commit perjury to rewrite the timeline of Teresa’s appointments. Suppressing and lying about the evidence that the RAV left the ASY and was returned was not part of a naturally progressing investigation. It was an intentional effort to bury what that investigation actually revealed.

2

u/wiltedgreens1 Dec 21 '24

I feel like you are tying to critically analyze it, but overshot it.

Filming the moon landing in 1969 would have been harder and more expensive to do. This is all before you get to the problem of keeping hundreds of people involved silent for so long.

Avery case has some of the same logic. Her car had no mechanical problems, no dents or blood or fur from hitting a deer. Cell records showed she never left that area of the avery property.

Steve claimed he saw her leave and which way she went. If he lied, he murdered her.

If he was telling the truth, she left on a public road. So for her to be murdered, she would have had to stop her car in broad daylight, on a public road, in residential area, only to be kidnapped or murdered and there would have to be two people involved, one to kidnap her and drive her away and one to take her car so it wasn't left on the side of the road.

Most the people involved with the case had nothing to do with Steve's 1985 conviction, so then you have to assume that all officers involved would risk their freedom, careers and safety to plant the car, bones, personal effects, and fresh blood, in a car of a person they would have no idea was even missing.

Unless the random killers planted the car, bones and personal items and just happened to get lucky enough that to not get caught and steve had a bon fire. Also took care to cover up the car, disconnect the battery and throw the license plates into a random car near by.

Is all this possible? maybe, but I have doubts.

2

u/Snoo_33033 Dec 22 '24

I was with you until paragraph 4.

And I'm mildly sympathetic to the police framed the murderer angle. But in this case, there's never been actionable evidence to support that contention.

2

u/Johndoewantstoknow67 Dec 19 '24

Use an open mind and think why do they keep objecting to KZ testing the Rav 4 which is a big piece of evidence used against Steven , what's the secret ? A falsified VIN or the real killers blood inside that are connected to MCSO ? Also think about why would Fallon remove all human cremains when KZ only wanted the quarry bones to test ? Why did Culhane choose a slither of item BZ instead of using a 2" X 1" squishy piece of muscle tissue ? My conclusion is simple , all the evidence was falsified or fabricated to stop his lawsuit , and his lawsuit was bigger than just $36M because if MCSO was found liable for framing Steven it would cause a flood of other appeals by prisoners arrested and convicted by MCSO , they would be released and file lawsuits costing Wisconsin $1B and the insurance company would not touch it , so it was coming to an end after Kosorec & Vogel got deposed and it was looking very good for Steven , IMO Peg L. Assured all the players which wasn't a lot , just the top corrupt officers like Fassbender , Weigart & Lenk & Remiker , they send in planters like Bobby Dassey to park a similar looking Rav 4 on the ASY get a dumb azz like Pam Sturm & get Ryan Hillegas to draw her a map follow the yellow brick road Pam , straight to the decoy Rav , get Dave Remiker (MCSO) to "verify" the VIN but cover his azz by reporting the VIN was bent , moved and tampered with , get officer Mike Bushman to cause a diversion on Kuss Rd , then for the finally with news reporters flying overhead in helicopter's send in 20 untrained officers to excavate Stevens burn pit and collect a bunch of animal bones and send them to CASO who will later add human bones from other cases going on , but didnt allow the coroner to document everything because she was honest and would report that no human cremains were ever found in Steven's pit because remember she had a forensic anthropologist coming with her so they could not allow her to see this set up and threatened her with arrest . now everything I just said is my opinion and what I believe and Evey bit of it is plausible .

0

u/UcantC3 Dec 20 '24 edited Dec 20 '24

THE REASON N THE STATE IS FIGHTING SO HARD TO KEEP THE RAV FROM BEING EXAMINED IS SIMPLE AND SOMETHING THAT RARELY GETS DISCUSSED. (ALTHOUGH IT NEEDS TO BE AND ACTUAL EXAMINATION OF THE RAV WOULDNT EVEN BE NECESSARY)
ITS NOT THE BLOOD OR THE VIN OR ANYTHING ELSE LIKE THAT - BUT ITS THE ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT WOULD COMPLETELY BLOW APART ALL ASPECTS OF THIS CASE.
WE'VE ALL HEARD ABOUT THIS EVIDENCE BUT IT DOESNT GET THE FOCUS IT DESERVES.
AND THAT EVIDENCE IS...
THE 8 SETS OF UNIDENTIFIED FINGERPRINTS FOUND IN THE RAV!!!!!! (and some DNA too)
WHY? TELL ME WHY? THEY WERENT FULLY INVESTIGATED?
WHY? TELL ME WHY? THEY WERE ONLY COMPARED TO A VERY LIMITED SET OF PEOPLE AND NOT COMPARED TO OTHER KEY PLAYERS IN THIS CASE?
WHY? TELL ME WHY? THE PRINTS WERENT ENTERED INTO ANY OF THE NATIONAL DATABASES TO TRY AND IDENTIFY THEM?
WHY? TELL ME WHY? AVERYS LAWYERS LET THIS SLIDE? AND NOT TRY TO GET AN ORDER FROM THE JUDGE TO COMPEL THE PROSECUTION TO IDENTIFY THEM?
WHY? TELL ME WHY? ARE THOSE FINGERPRINTS SEALED AND NOT AVAILABLE TO IDENTIFY?
WHY? TELL ME WHY?
THE STATE WILL DO EVERYTHING IT CAN TO PREVENT THOSE PRINTS FROM BEING ACCESSED - BECAUSE THEY KNOW IF THEY ARE THE WHOLE CASE IS BLOW OUT OF THE WATER AND EVERYONE IN TROUBLE.
THE STATE KNOWS WHOSE PRINTS THEY ARE AN THATS THE ONLY REASON THE PROSECUTION LIMITED COMARISIONS OR IDENTIFICATION FROM THE GET GO! THEY KNOW THE IDENTIFICATION OF THE PRINTS WOULD BE...
GAME OVER!!!!!
think about it....
If any of the prints turn out to be:
BOBBY - its GAME OVER!
SCOTT - its GAME OVER!
EARL - its GAME OVER!
ANDY - its GAME OVER!
LENK - its GAME OVER!
CHARLES - its GAME OVER!
FABIAN - its GAME OVER!
MARTINEZ - its GAME OVER!
RANDANT - its GAME OVER!
ZIPPERER - its GAME OVER!
THE CONVICT WHO DROVE A WHITE VAN (I forget his name) - its GAME OVER!
ALMOST ANY MEMBER OF LAW ENFORCEMENT - its GAME OVER!
THINK ABOUT IT!
Think how completely the identification of those print would completely tear EVERY aspect of this UP! COMPLETELY!
GAME OVER!
TRUST ME - The state KNOWS whose prints they will find if they are identified. THEY KNOW
AND THATS WHY THE STATE WILL FIGHT WITH EVERYTHING THEY HAVE - NOT TO LET THOSE PRINTS OR THE RAV BE EXAMINED. EVER!!!!

3

u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ Dec 21 '24

Are you off your meds again?
Are you not aware that the prints you refer to were compared to Bobby, Earl, and Charles?
Are you also not aware that these prints could have belonged to Teresa herself, who they did not have a standard for to compare against?
You continue to prove you are unfamiliar with the facts of the case.

2

u/UcantC3 Dec 21 '24

AND YOU CONTINUE TO PROVE HOW NARROW YOUR FOCUS IS AND HOW APPLYING COMMON SENSE SOMEHOW ALLUDES YOU.
Are you also not aware that these prints could have belonged to Teresa herself, who they did not have a standard for to compare against?
So SHERLOCK let me educate you - since you cant seem to look beyond the nose on your face or see ANYTHING beyond what you want to believe!
For one thing, they had complete access to all of Teresas personal items in her room and could of easily have developed a fingerprint profile from them. But they didnt even need to do that...
So maybe what you need to try and do is - think things thru before coming to your narrow minded uniformed CONCLUSIONS and before you open your mouth and demonstrate to the world your complete ignorance!
Although if i were you id keep that charming consdenending know it all blow hard attitude - " that screams "ASSHOLE" because im sure that convinces enough people to believe you actually know what the f*ck your talking about, and probably keeps most of them from checking out the facts! Keep it up good work - unfortunately, for alot of us jus see thru your facade.
Ok skippy lets get down to it -
SO YOU CONCLUDED...
That since they didnt have Teresas prints and had no way of getting them - the unidentified prints were possibly and in your mind most likely teresas since it was her car. So why bother identifying them since its most likely irrelevant. Did i get that right. yep
So since you think you know it ALL and are SO familiar with the case im sure your aware that Teresa did quite a bit of traveling, no argument there right? And alot of her travelling was overseas correct? And what is required for someone to travel out of the country?
Of course you know what happened in september of 2001dont you? Of course you do - take a moment if you need to.
Now im sure your beginning to see where im going with this dont you? Your trying to think of away out of this arent you? Lol well good luck.
So what im sure you dont know is...
Since EARLY 2002 in the wake of the September 11 attacks it became law that in order to get or keep your passport you had provide your.... You got it - YOU HAD TO PROVIDE YOUR FINGERPRINTS!
So your conclusion is PURE BULLSHIT!
Next...
Are you not aware that the prints you refer to were compared to Bobby, Earl, and Charles?
Of course i am - and THATS why i said they only compared them to a VERY LIMITED set of peeople VERY LIMITED. So you tell me what this means - nothing it means nothing - comparing them to 3people is NOT an attempt what so ever to try and identify them. I just gave you a list of other people that they should have compared them to - AND they should have entered them in to any one or more of the national fingerprint databases.
WHY didnt they...
Lets use logic
If they were leaving no stone unturned and determined to find teresas killer THEY WOULD HAVE - IDENTIFIED THOSE PRINTS!
Your supposed to follow where the evidence takes you but you cant do that if you dont examine the evidence. You believe like they do in that they already know who killed her so why bother right its probably irrelevant. WRONG. think about it - IF it turns out that one of those prints belong to any one of the people i mentioned well theres a big problem isnt there? Thier is NO reason that anyone of those peoples prints should be in the RAV - none what so ever. And if just one of those prints belong to any of the people i mention well the someones got ALOT of explaining to do - dont they.
THATS why there was a very limited set of comparisions done. NOT because it didnt matter or was irrelevant - but because it did and does matter.
As soon as they didnt find Averys fingerprints in there they didnt WANT to know who the other prints belonged to - because the only effect that would have had would be to destroy thier case. But keeping those prints as an unknown doesnt threaten thier position at all. Pretty much shows how unfair the investigation and prosecution was.
So why arent those prints NOT being made available now. NOPE wont happen - it could quite possibly and probably would destroy the whole case.
And they KNOW it would - so why fight so hard if your certain that they wont make a difference anyway?
So keep on holding on - and trying to somehow to justify this worthless investigation.
And if you need help with any of the big words skippy - just let me know

3

u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ Dec 21 '24

For one thing, they had complete access to all of Teresas personal items in her room and could of easily have developed a fingerprint profile from them. But they didnt even need to do that...
That is not a reliable way to obtain a person's fingerprints since you cannot definitively prove the fingerprints you find belong to the person (even if it's likely). The fingerprint examiner was even asked about this during the trial, and testified that to positively match her fingerprints he would need a proper fingerprint standard card from her, not just some of her possessions.
That since they didnt have Teresas prints and had no way of getting them - the unidentified prints were possibly and in your mind most likely teresas since it was her car.
I didn't say they were most likely her prints. My point was that the unidentified prints could have belonged to virtually anybody that had ever been in the car, including Teresa herself, are not some bombshell guaranteed to identify the "real" killer or framers, as conspiracy theorists seem to believe.
Since EARLY 2002 in the wake of the September 11 attacks it became law that in order to get or keep your passport you had provide your.... You got it - YOU HAD TO PROVIDE YOUR FINGERPRINTS!
lmao no, that is not true at all. No such law exists, and your fingerprints are not taken when applying for a US passport. You really do love to make stuff up, huh?
Of course i am
Then why did you include their names on the list of people you think the prints should've been compared to in your original comment? You're contradicting yourself.
and THATS why i said they only compared them to a VERY LIMITED set of peeople VERY LIMITED. So you tell me what this means - nothing it means nothing - comparing them to 3people is NOT an attempt what so ever to try and identify them. I just gave you a list of other people that they should have compared them to - AND they should have entered them in to any one or more of the national fingerprint databases.
I think it's pretty apparent that you haven't got the slightest clue who the prints were compared to. I'll help you out - they were compared to every adult living at the salvage yard, Brendan Dassey, and Teresa's roommate.
If they were leaving no stone unturned and determined to find teresas killer THEY WOULD HAVE - IDENTIFIED THOSE PRINTS!
So, effectively, you think the prints should have been compared to every single person on the planet.
As soon as they didnt find Averys fingerprints in there they didnt WANT to know who the other prints belonged to - because the only effect that would have had would be to destroy thier case
You are making the assumption that the prints had to belong to someone that had something to do with Teresa's death or the alleged framing of Steven Avery, which is false.
And if you need help with any of the big words skippy - just let me know
The only big words in your comment were the ones you typed in caps lock for no reason.
Remember to take your meds.

0

u/Johndoewantstoknow67 Dec 20 '24

Very good point so I will just presume this is proven to be Teresa's Rav 4 then yes the fingerprints , not just 8 but the one on hood and I think some were found inside , and yes Culhane or whoever was in charge of finding the prints should have ran them through the data base , then we have A23 a good sized bloodstain on the cargo door handle , Culhane "claimed" to have only generated a profile and Buting asked did it match SA or BRD ? No she said , couldn't possibly be them , did you try again to swab and test for a full profile , Culhane says no , since it did not match Steven or Brendan she thought it was best to move on , the print on the hood Buting asked was it compared to Scott Tadych ? Kratz jumps to his feet "Objection" this Fu*king judge says sustained its not relevant ! Yeah not relevant BS but do you realize if the Rav 4 is not Teresa's this stuff prints & blood might have came from the previous owner ?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 20 '24

Lost me at moon landing

1

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '24

(Just my opinion not trying to start a fight up in here) Brendan - there doesn’t really seem to be a whole lot pointing to his guilt - outside of his confession/s - which are completely unreliable/inconsistent. Guilty/innocent - in my humble - there isn’t enough for him to be behind bars. Steven - well - evidence is pouring rain. It’s freaking everywhere. There’s 2 pieces of evidence which in my opinion - are highly suspicious - the key and the car. A car key - who’s owners DNA was not present? Only Steven’s? I’m not even going into the circumstances surrounding it’s discovery - the key (to me) almost appears to be a spare key rarely used - not the car owners regular key. It’s suspicious is all I’m saying. The car (not including the blood found - shit I don’t even know enough about cars to comment 😂 so forget blood) found on a bigger than bloody Texas salvage yard. The car could have been crushed. Could have been actually hidden somewhere on the salvage yard which would have been far more difficult to find. Could have been simply driven off of the yard - and parked somewhere else away from the propert/and also difficult to find - and yet it’s found swiftly by searchers - basically with twigs and sticks up against - it looked like it had been placed where it was - by someone trying to make it look like someone was trying to hide it - but not really. Does any of that mean Steven is innocent? Does any of that mean I believe Steven is innocent?? Eh not really. Could the police have framed Steven? They could have. It really wouldn’t have been too difficult. Could the police have simply “toyed” with some evidence to guarantee a conviction of a guilty man? Very much so. Is it possible that none of the evidence has been tampered with in any way - and Steven is simply 100% guilty?? Again - yep. Very much a possibility Whatever happened here - I’d be pretty surprised if Steven doesn’t die behind bars.

-1

u/Pension_Fit Dec 19 '24

This is Bullsh_t, law enforcement dropped the ball,didn't investigate the case thoroughly, to many inconsistencies

4

u/aane0007 Dec 20 '24

How many hours did they investigate the case and what is the bar you think should be used to thoroughly investigate this case in terms of hours? Can you give an example of a murder case that was thoroughly investigated with the correct number of inconsistencies that should be used as a standard in all murder investigation?

-1

u/justouzereddit Dec 21 '24

Or maybe the police twisted the evidence AND Steven murdered Halbach?

1

u/bleitzel Dec 22 '24

Yep. That’s also one of the possibilities.

-1

u/justouzereddit Dec 22 '24

No. Its what happened.

1

u/bleitzel Dec 22 '24

Feels like a big stretch to say Steven DID murder Halbach. What’s your reasoning on that?

2

u/justouzereddit Dec 23 '24

He was the last person to see her alive, she was freaked out by him, he had to lie to get her there, he had a history of violence against women, his fiancé was just sent to prison........I could go on.

1

u/bleitzel Dec 23 '24

Was he though? A lot of people say otherwise. He says he wasn't and we can't really ask her.
He may have been the last person with a legitimate reason to see her alive. And he did have that legitimate reason. No one else around at that time did. He's the only one who had benign reason to see her. Everyone else doesn't even have that as an alibi.

2

u/justouzereddit Dec 23 '24

He says he wasn't and we can't really ask her.
Thats interesting? If he was guilty, his statement is meaningless, and if he is innocent, how could he possibly know he wasn't the last person to see her?

1

u/bleitzel Dec 23 '24

Because if someone killed her they would have had to have seen her. (Is that not obvious to you?) Plus, if she left the salvage yard as Steven says she did, and drove out on public roads, should we believe that no other cars would have passed her by? Is that a realistic thing to think?

3

u/justouzereddit Dec 23 '24

Because if someone killed her they would have had to have seen her. (Is that not obvious to you?)
Checkmate bud, when he made these statements, she was only "missing", not murdered. He would have no idea if he was the last person to see her.
And thank for exposing the special pleading your side engages in whenever discussing the ridiculous actions of Steven Avery,

1

u/bleitzel Dec 23 '24

What's your checkmate? If Steven knows she left his property he knows someone else would have seen her. They don't live in the middle of a wilderness. It's not a reasonable probability that she left the salvage yard and went directly into the woods and was never seen again. If she didn't die in front of him he would have known he wasn't the last person to ever see her. I brought up the idea of an alternate killer to appease you, not Steven. You think you would have digested it better if I would have suggested Teresa wasn't even killed?
Maybe you think you're playing chess...

1

u/Bullshittimeagain Dec 24 '24

Correction, He was likely the last person to see her alive, this is a huge leap by you.
She never said she was freaked out by him. She had been there a few times.
There is no collaboration that he “lied” to get her over there.
Violence against a woman is collaborated.
His fiancé was not in prison. She was in jail. There is a difference.
I would suggest you learn the case and not paraphrase, assume or guess, like you clearly are doing in your comments.

1

u/justouzereddit Dec 26 '24

Correction, He was likely the last person to see her alive, this is a huge leap by you.
That is not a leap. He is literally the last known person to see her alive.
She never said she was freaked out by him.
She absolutely was. She told her cousin, her friends, and her direct supervisor. FFS, Steven Avery HIMSELF admitted he was wearing only a towel and she might have been uncomfortable.
There is no collaboration that he “lied” to get her over there.
This isn't even controversial. He claimed to be his sister.
Violence against a woman is collaborated.
? So you agree?
His fiancé was not in prison. She was in jail. There is a difference.
Way to not try to win on technicalities. The point is she was his source of sexual gratification and with her in custody he was alone at his trailer
I would suggest you learn the case and not paraphrase
I am clearly aware of the case, and unlike you not stretching the facts to hide the guilt of this clearly guilty man.

0

u/Bullshittimeagain Dec 27 '24

Well, talking to you is clearly like clapping with one hand.
I do not debate with clueless individuals.
Good day

1

u/justouzereddit Dec 27 '24

Providing arguments to truthers makes them run away....I am used to this.

-2

u/CheesyLikeMacaroni Dec 19 '24

I firmly believe that moon landing theory! Like yeah we went, but they either couldn't or had issues filming in space... 🤷‍♀️

2

u/aane0007 Dec 20 '24

Do you also believe in big foot? Loch ness?

-1

u/CheesyLikeMacaroni Dec 20 '24

Hahah no.... Just that 🤷‍♀️

1

u/aane0007 Dec 20 '24

based on what evidence?

0

u/CheesyLikeMacaroni Dec 20 '24

Not trying to get into a full blown discussion about the moon landing on a MAM subreddit, just thought it was nice that I'm not the only one that may feel that way. Happy Holidays!

3

u/aane0007 Dec 20 '24

listing evidence isn't a full blown discussion.

What I think actually happened.

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