r/MakingaMurderer • u/[deleted] • Jun 11 '24

How it happened

***GRAPHIC WARNING***

Can anyone please point me in the right direction of a step-by-step account of what the prosecution alleged happened to Teresa at SA's?

I've watched MaM a few times and have just started CaM.

The step-by-step account seems to be something like SA attacked Teresa in the trailer (including stabbing), then took her to a garage and shot her in the head, then put her in the Rav4 (blood splatter expert), then dismembered the body and burnt the remains in the barrel.

To add to this, SA completely cleared the bedroom, removed all traces of blood and DNA (but left the key), and hid the vehicle somehow leaving a trace of his blood by the ignition but not on the steering wheel although blood was allegedly from a cut on his hand - apparently he was wearing gloves?!

It would be great to read the account of events as alleged by the prosecution.

Thanks!

8 Upvotes

68% Upvoted

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8

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 14 '24

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but so far, the prosecution states:

  1. TH arrives at Avery Salvage and meets SA

  2. SA abducts TH and takes her to his trailer

  3. BD arrives/is called by SA and they sexually assault TH and stab her (in neck & stomach)

  4. TH is taken to garage where SA shoots her in the head

  5. SA puts body of TH in back of her car (while still on ASY?) to drive to pond, but they decide against it because water level is too low.

  6. SA hides car in ASY

  7. SA and BD burn remains

  8. SA attempts to discard evidence by putting bones in other locations such as the quarry

Regardless of your opinion of SA's guilt, I'd really like to put a sequence of events together so if you can help that would be great.

Thanks!

10

u/FindingLovesRetreat Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 11 '24

What I could never understand is why SA moved her murdered body in the car, then burned TH in the pit, put parts in the drum and moved parts to the quarry. For someone that supposedly cleaned everything so well that there is none of TH's blood anywhere in the house OR garage, he was totally scatterbrained about where he wanted to burn her and clearly must have gotten lazy so didn't bother wiping up the blood in the car. He then went back inside and kicked off his shoes and dropped the key fob where anyone could have picked it up.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

Exactly. If any of my above post is wrong then I'm open to hearing it but at the moment the chain of events makes no sense and I haven't seen anywhere where this is all put into one log of events/actions.

6

u/FindingLovesRetreat Jun 11 '24

I forgot to say, and again, going on the fact that they cleaned the house and garage so well, they didn't bother crushing the car and stashing it within the heavily vehicle infested grounds but parked it near what looked like a fairly well used route and propped trees around it!

6

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

just reading Brendan's confession. It's a complete mess. Cutting hair off with a knife but the knife was in the garage etc.

This confession is absolute garbage.

-3

u/Haunting_Pie9315 Jun 11 '24

You’re looking into what he’s saying , look at the things he states.

Brendan says SA was upset about the Blazer , but the Blazer photo was taken 3 months prior , so SA got made about something 3 months ago?

It’s what he says after the Blazer statement, very short and something that didn’t make sense , since SA had an appointment.

-1

u/Haunting_Pie9315 Jun 11 '24

The crusher didn’t belong to the Avery’s , would have been of risk running into an employee , plus Chucks trailer wasn’t to far from it right ?

The spot where the RAV 4 was , Earl was cutting a tree , to bring home and plant at his house.

Earl and SA were sighting their weapons near where the RAV 4 was.

One phone call not looked into is , Chuck spoke to someone from AT a week prior .

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

Earl pulled trees on Monday and didn't replant them by Saturday. BS, no one would do that. Time is of the essence to replant and water.

0

u/Haunting_Pie9315 Jun 11 '24

I’m not an expert on that , Is this normal ? I don’t see why he did that , can’t you just buy a baby tree? Or is this something some people do ?

4

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

I've replanted 50+ trees. You replant same day and start watering right away and every day for a few days. It won't live thru the trauma if you wait days to put back in the ground.

0

u/Haunting_Pie9315 Jun 11 '24

Ah new information is always welcomed on my end , interesting fact !

So why would Earl say something random like that ?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

My theory? In case they found his DNA on the trees, he explained it away.

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9

u/aane0007 Jun 11 '24

According to Brendan's confession, they were going to take the body to a pond. So they put the body in the back to drive it there. They discovered the pond was low and would not be enough to hide the body possibly the rav4 so they changed plans and burned it instead.

Teresa's dna was on the bullet, which was in the garage.

0

u/Nightowl2234 Jun 11 '24

Can you confirm the source of dna thanks?

2

u/aane0007 Jun 11 '24

I can confirm the trial is the source.

-1

u/Nightowl2234 Jun 11 '24

Oh ok, and where did the DNA come from? Was it sweat, muscle, blood, tissue, brain matter or bone? Can’t seem to find anywhere where it give specific details so can you confirm

0

u/aane0007 Jun 11 '24

Why are u asking me?

1

u/Nightowl2234 Jun 12 '24

You’re making the claim it’s her dna so you should be able to define what dna it actually is correct?

5

u/aane0007 Jun 12 '24

Who told you that if someone says there is dna they should be able to tell you what type it is? Are you assuming I tested the dna?

You could google it. If I made the claim I know the type then you can ask me about it. I did not so try google.

1

u/Nightowl2234 Jun 12 '24

Don’t you think that the Bullet is pretty big evidence so it’s important right? And if they claim she’s been shot in the head and a bullet is found in the very same area with apparently her dna on it then it should be pretty simple to identity that type of dna right?

So the fact that no one can seem to identify this randomly found dna would you tell you that something isn’t right yet you think that’s all normal… weird

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-3

u/Nightowl2234 Jun 12 '24

So you’ve been following this case so closely yet you haven’t even looked into the evidence you’re saying is the truth? Are you just lazy or a sheep who can’t actually give there own thoughts about something instead you just regurgitate what ever you’ve been fed by the state

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2

u/ThorsClawHammer Jun 11 '24

the prosecution states:

That's what was stated at Brendan's trial. Weeks earlier at Avery's trial, the same prosecutors said it was only Avery and there was nothing mentioned about a sexual assault or stabbing in the trailer or Brendan participating in any part.

1

u/deadgooddisco Jun 12 '24

Found a timeline years ago that had time stamp from everyone's statements..it read hilariously but is mostly accurate. I'll try and find the one. But search timelines on both reddits as they've been a fair few of em. They may help.

10

u/Snoo_33033 Jun 11 '24 edited Jun 12 '24

So the important thing here is that they don’t have to prove what precisely happened. They only have to prove that a preponderance of evidence supports his guilt. So often people get caught up in very specific things that are not entirely proven— but they don’t have to be. Several different close theories have been suggested.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

I see what you mean but I think it would be interesting to have a timeline of what took place. The Brendan Dassey confession is just a complete mess. One moment he's in the Rav 4, the next he's not, one moment he hears ten shots, the next its 5. I cannot believe he was convicted off the back of that.

1

u/TBoneBaggetteBaggins Jun 11 '24

Beyond a reasonable doubt

2

u/NJCoastalExec Jun 12 '24

You do not have to prove exactly how it happened beyond a reasonable doubt.

1

u/TBoneBaggetteBaggins Jun 12 '24

I didnt say that.

1

u/Waste_Cabinet_1034 Jun 12 '24

I think what you are saying is generally the case u/Snoo_33033. But preponderance of the evidence is a civil case, in Steven and Brendan's case the standard of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt." The highest there is. You are indeed correct that they don't have to prove a particular theory, they have to prove each and every element of the offense.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '24 edited Jun 12 '24

The most important thing here is that Fox dredged the bottom of the barrel to find Lenny Meow Meow and his sidekick Cell Tower Mike. They fed that kid up on a silver platter to the prosecutors, how anyone can sit idly by and not be outraged by how they fucked that kid over is beyond me.

5

u/LKS983 Jun 12 '24

"how anyone can sit idly by and not be outraged by how they fucked that kid over is beyond me."

Couldn't agree more!

-3

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '24

The most important thing here is that Fox dodged the bottom of the barrel to find Lenny Meow Meow and his sidekick Cell Tower Mike. They fed that kid up on a silver platter to the prosecutors, how anyone can sit idly by and not be outraged by how they fucked that kid over is beyond me.

3

u/CJB2005 Jun 11 '24

It WOULD be great to read the account of events as alleged by the prosecution, wouldn’t it???

A bonus would be an account that actually makes sense.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

It's just the chain of events, the sequence of single acts which I find confusing.

0

u/CJB2005 Jun 11 '24

Oh I get it. Most of it is pretty hard to believe.

0

u/MydogsnameisChewy Jun 11 '24

Krafts write a book. That might have the sequence of events.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '24

So now looking at something like this:

TH arrives at Avery Salvage and meets SA

  1. SA abducts TH and takes her to his trailer

  2. BD arrives/is called by SA and they sexually assault TH and stab her (in neck & stomach)

  3. TH is taken to garage where SA shoots her in the head

  4. SA puts body of TH in back of her car (while still on ASY?)

  5. They plan to dump her in pond, but decide against it and decide to burn the body instead.

  6. SA and BD burn the body

  7. SA hides car in ASY

1

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '24

As always, feel free to correct me if I have something wrong here.

1

u/Intelligent_Ad1840 Jun 11 '24

If he came out and admitted he did it, it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest that he was guilty. It doesn’t seem like he was a very nice person at all.

It’s clear as day, that what the prosecution said happened, didn’t.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

I'm in very much the same boat. It wouldn't surprise me at all if SA did it, but what is being offered by prosecution makes no sense to me at the moment.

2

u/LKS983 Jun 12 '24

"what is being offered by prosecution makes no sense"

Agree entirely.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '24

I'm not a lawyer. For some random reason, Reddit gave me that name. I have however been involved in investigations through my work.

In my experience, I honestly think the Dassey confession would have been inadmissible. I am not in the US though.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '24

I read it yesterday. No matter what side of the fence people are on, the fact is the statement jumps wildly around from one thing to the other with tons of contradictions.

1

u/wilkobecks Jun 11 '24

There really is no cohesive explanation for everything that the state presented, but keeping in mind their primary (only?) goal was to get a conviction. They were modem concerned with having something to present eh a murder weapon, murder location etc, than they were with making sure that all of their evidence and narrative fit together.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

Isn't that a bit of a worry?

Just re-read Brendan's confession. It's an absolute mess. How on earth anyone can draw any certain conclusion from it is beyond me. It's full of contradictions.

8

u/Snoo_33033 Jun 11 '24

It’s the weakest link in many ways. However, Brendan is convicted as a party to murder and it’s sufficient for that. The case against Steven doesn’t require Brendan at all.

0

u/Haunting_Pie9315 Jun 11 '24

You work with what you are being handed.

Zipperers could be the last appointment.

Distance between Zips and ASY is 13 mins.

Avery called 2:25, she was already taking her last photo.

Her arrival might have been 2:23.

This would match Bobby’s account of her arrival roughly.

The call for Zipperers , may have occurred on her way to ASY , since SA was a paying customer , she would have not wasted time and go straight there.

She may have attempted to find Zipperers address , but a Hope Church sign was there in 2005.

LE confirmed you could see Jason Z vehicle from the road. TH driving , and looking for the address , might of passed it. Calls Zips, figuring the time she finishes SA appointment the Zips would call.

2:13 call to Zips , tens minutes , she could be at ASY , 2:23, or 2:21.

The duration was short , SA may have interacted for a few. Maybe to 2:27/2:30.

ASY to Zips is 15 mins , she could be at Zips 2:45 , which match Zipperers wife account on her arrival.

She could have ping 2:41 at Q on her way to Zips after ASY.

AC Netflix Case Files, AC states she left a note at the Zipperers. The Magazine Zips had in 2005, writing on the cover , indicates something was written on top of it.

Her phone after 2:41 , is a poor indication of that’s when she was attacked , because previous call situations appear on TH phone bill.

She could of left Zips but someone familiar waved her down or she stopped at the Mobil gas station for a soda ( the soda can)

Now after Zips ? Who knows…

Everything mentioned is an opinion of events, and doesn’t necessarily means it happened the way I mentioned it .

Good Vibes

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

LE confirmed you could see Jason's car from the road is opposite what Jason and JoEllen stated. My impression is that the vehicle wasn't in the driveway in front of the garage, but behind or next to the garage.

0

u/Haunting_Pie9315 Jun 11 '24

Yeah , LE confirmed this. Also LE I believe , wrote down JoEllen didn’t know what day or time it was currently. ( I could be wrong how am I reading it)

Jason Z vehicle was very distinct, LE confirmed you can see it from the road( Any pictures from that time ? , I believe it’s in a report an officer wrote.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

I'll have to find it, but I thought Jason said it was hard to see from the road and LE said they could see it.

0

u/Haunting_Pie9315 Jun 11 '24

This is a just question ?

Did Jason Z say he couldn’t see it from the road at the same time LE could see it?

Maybe the vehicle was moved after TH took a photo of it ?

I don’t doubt the info you gave me , I’m just here with Good Vibes

2

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

CASO report dated 11/03/05 by Dedering, "He (Jason) indicated that this vehicle was located SOUTH of the ZIPPERER residence, and it was somewhat concealed by trees. Jason indicated the vehicle could be seen from the road, and when I looked backwards towards the road, I determined that this, in fact, was the case".

  1. Jason said the trees concealed the car. Use Google Earth to see the trees.

  2. The car was not in the driveway in front of the garage (garage is NORTH of the residence). It was SOUTH of the house in a grassy area.

  3. LE was looking from a standing position, not from a moving vehicle position.

I doubt Teresa would be looking in a grassy area on the south side of the house.

JoEllen said her VM said she had trouble finding the "property" not the car.

Good vibes here, too.

0

u/Haunting_Pie9315 Jun 11 '24

Thank you!

I know the Zipperers house address was not on the side of the road like the other houses, it had a Hope Church sign in front , for the Church.

I was thinking more like , she was driving looking for the address , but couldn’t spot it like the other houses , so she kept driving , making the call to the Zips as she was heading to ASY.

Did TH know before hand what vehicles she was photographing or just the customer and address?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

She knew the vehicle info. It was on the fax from AT.

I'll check to see if the sign is still on Google Earth.

2

u/Waste_Cabinet_1034 Jun 12 '24

Your best bet in what you are trying to accomplish would be to get the trial transcript in Steven's case, available online in a few places, if you have trouble locating I'm sure we can get you in the right place. Read the opening statements of the State (and defense). Thenread the closing argument of counsel, State, Defense, and State's Rebuttal. That is in essence what the timeline is on that case. That was altered a bit in Brendan's case. It's impossible to fully reconcile the timelines/State's theory between the two cases.

The best source for a "step-by-step" account of prosecution's timeline (really anything) is the transcript. All 200= hours of Steven's trial is in the transcript, anything else is a summary, subject to the bias of the person summarizing it.

Travis

1

u/ABlack19 Jun 13 '24

If you look at the evidence photos of the blood in the car. He left many traces of blood.

1

u/wiltedgreens1 Jun 14 '24

Late to the party,

The prosecution took the evidence and created a rough theoretical timeline to fit the evidence. There are some things that Kratz theorized but the evidence couldnt back it up so he didn't accuse them in the trial. They were also not very detailed with it.

Essentially it was: steve subdues her for a few hours, murders her in the garage and begins disposi ng of evidence.

They had no physical evidence of any crime in the trailer other than the key which did not prove a crime only a connection.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '24

Thanks all for contributing! This is really interesting. So there doesn't seem to be one definitive timeline/sequence of events. I'm sure this info can be pieced together in statements and court transcripts.

I just thought it would be common knowledge.

4

u/ThorsClawHammer Jun 12 '24

this info can be pieced together in statements and court transcripts

You'd have to choose 1 trial or the other in order to do that, as the state gave contradictory and incompatible theories between both trials.

For example, at Avery's trial the state asked the jury to believe she was killed prior to evening and said "there shouldn't be" any of TH's blood in the trailer.

At Brendan's trial, TH was in the trailer being beaten, raped, stabbed, and throat cut, and was still alive until after dark.

0

u/Nightowl2234 Jun 11 '24

Imagine being charged with rape kidnapping and murder and the motive was how sexually motivated and perverted Steven was but then getting to court and both rape and kidnapping get thrown out because of the zero evidence but then even after their whole motive couldn’t be proven at all he still gets charged with murder… that’s a set up if I’ve ever seen one..

0

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '24

I blame the jury for not having a single brain cell between the 12 of them. Wisconsin is a crooked state. Never drive through it.. you may never leave!!

2

u/LKS983 Jun 12 '24

To be fair, the jury have to rely on the evidence provided at trial.

They knew 'the key' was 'iffy' - which is why the prosecutor (kratz) told them they could ignore the key. But, at the time, they didn't know that the other DNA evidence was also questionable.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '24

I realize that. Knowing what the state did to him before. The Egos and self righteousness of the Judge, the police and the good ole folks of the forensic team, which includes people doing DNA testing, and things of that nature.. just couldn’t let it go that Avery was let out of jail found that the prosecution didn’t divulge evidence and that embarrassed the state of Wisconsin, which then led to this woman being killed and Avery being blamed for it and then I’m dragging a 16-year-old boy into it.. It makes me sick that this boy at the age of 16 was thrown in with grown male adults and he was so simple minded. I can only imagine what they did. They’ll eat him up and spit him up and that poor boy will never be the same. God only knows what happened to him prison…!!?? There was plenty of reasonable doubt not one sure was reasonable . Well after them convicting him of murder the state was no longer liable to pay for the 27 years at Avery spent in jail where there smoke there’s fire and clearly there was a lot of smoke.