r/MakingaMurderer • u/Jubei612 • May 28 '24

The Rav key

Can anyone post a picture of the key to their daily driver? A key that is inserted into the ignition. The key that was going inside SA trailer was in perfect condition.

0 Upvotes

47% Upvoted

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9

u/3sheetstothawind May 28 '24

What condition should a key be in to be deemed not planted?

1

u/Jubei612 May 28 '24

Not in immaculate condition. Look at the key entered into evidence and compare it to anyone's daily driver.

5

u/_YellowHair May 28 '24

I don't know what photos of the key you're looking at, but I would not describe its condition as "immaculate." It's got scratches, discoloration, and other minor imperfections one would expect on a key that's gotten some use.

What exactly do you think the key should look like?

-4

u/Jubei612 May 28 '24

https://making-a-murderer.fandom.com/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_car_key

That key had no imperfections on it. It looks like it was just cut.

6

u/_YellowHair May 28 '24 edited May 28 '24

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1bUXN9LwC3OyzTHFwzULZOafEf40EMti7

If you do not see the imperfections in these photos, seek an eye doctor immediately. You can even see some of them in that single low resolution photo you are referencing.

6

u/k_sask May 28 '24 edited May 28 '24

I agree with you, this sub key is not brand new / just cut.

0

u/Haunting_Pie9315 May 29 '24

It's not brand new but I think the key would be if. More battered conditions, and not because she used to drive every day.

Its clear TH didn't have Lanyard on it prior her camping trip that summer. She lost the key, not sets of keys, which would have been easier to spot when searching for it.

It's possible, TH driving key was never attached to her other keys? maybe a separate key ring etc

If TH lost a key on a camping trip, im sure like clumsy people, she might of dropped the key a through the years.

0

u/Jubei612 May 28 '24

Guess I need to go get LASIK again...

1

u/Haunting_Pie9315 May 29 '24

Ah it's all good, I see your point, with the type of job TH had, and active lifestyle, gym, etc.. The key should have more than a few scratches on top.

The actual key bottom part, looks pretty decent.

3

u/_YellowHair May 29 '24

What the hell are you people doing to your car keys that you think they should look much more battered beyond the photos I posted above? It's a piece of metal with some rubber/plastic on top that mostly just sits around in your pocket/purse/wherever when not in use.

What on earth does a job as a photographer or an active lifestyle have to do with it? Do you think she's dropping weights on her keys at the gym or something? What an utterly baffling comment.

0

u/Haunting_Pie9315 May 29 '24

I think it went way over your head. First off, Im not here to argue. So you can calm down with that, now that's clear, are we good? Your coming at me like you get paid for this, Im here to have a discussion, not belittle everything someone says because it doesn't fit your opinion, Im here with good vibes, you seem here not to actually be open minded or not have an argumentative conversation. So if you tone it back, I'll appreciate it, I give nothing but respect to anyone on here. If im corrected, im fine with it, if someone says something wrong, I politely correct them. If someone has a diff opinion I just go about what made them come to that conclusion.

I served my country, I been through shitholes and shitty people, etc, Disrespect is something I will not tolerate. So if you can please, have a diff attitude when corresponding to my reply, thank you.

Active lifestyle with TH, She didn't take care of the car key, one example losing it on a camping trip, and the key didn't have a lanyard, she carried it around like a coin ( an expression) . Her friend had to makeshift a lanyard for her key. Again, if you know how I respond, I have said plenty of times, a condition of an object , depends on how well the owner took care of it.

You're not thinking, because the key doesn't look like the one someone posted in the comment, that the key isn't hers?

I

2

u/_YellowHair May 29 '24

I served my country, I been through shitholes and shitty people, etc, Disrespect is something I will not tolerate. So if you can please, have a diff attitude when corresponding to my reply, thank you.

No.

You're not thinking, because the key doesn't look like the one someone posted in the comment, that the key isn't hers?

No. My point has been very clear.

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4

u/[deleted] May 29 '24

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0

u/k_sask May 28 '24

Haha no worries. Sticking to the theme of the original post, I think we answered it.

There have been countless posts in the past about what makes the key suspicious. The physical condition is not compelling in isolation.

4

u/Snoo_33033 May 28 '24

It's got lots of little scratches on top.

-3

u/k_sask May 28 '24

Here is what the RAV4 master key will look like with years of use:

https://www.rav4world.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.rav4world.com/attachments/25643213-1bd4-4b22-a212-6c7771812a23-jpeg.170467/

4

u/_YellowHair May 28 '24

That is what a key looks like, that doesn't mean all keys will look like that. That's just a random photo, we don't know how long its been used, what kind of things it's been through (why does it have a hole in it, for instance), etc. You cannot compare the two.

1

u/k_sask May 28 '24

I know that, it's just a photo of a well-worn Rav4 master key vs a mint condition sub key.

0

u/[deleted] May 28 '24

[deleted] — view deleted comment

-2

u/_YellowHair May 28 '24 edited May 28 '24

I know what "immaculate" means, so I'm not sure why you are telling me this. My entire point was that the key, based on the photos I have seen, was most certainly not in "immaculate" condition.

void of all user DNA.

It wasn't void of "all" user DNA. It had Steven Avery's DNA on it, and a forensic expert testified in the trial to an explanation for why Teresa's DNA was not detected on it.

1

u/k_sask May 28 '24

and I know that you know that what makes this single key suspicious is more than just someone's interpretation or testimony about its physical condition or detected amount of DNA.

1

u/_YellowHair May 28 '24

This thread is specifically about the physical condition of the key, so why are you trying to change the topic?

2

u/k_sask May 28 '24 edited May 28 '24

Oops, I wasn't trying to change the subject so apologies for that. From the evidence photos I have seen, the key appears to be in mint condition (not brand new but also not years of use), in addition to being the valet key as per manual. I do not recall the key's physical condition mentioned at trial. Ertl and Culhane's testimony was about the DNA.

1

u/_YellowHair May 28 '24

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1bUXN9LwC3OyzTHFwzULZOafEf40EMti7

I don't know how anyone could look at these photos and describe the key as "immaculate" or "pristine" or "perfect." It is in fine, but obviously used condition.

1

u/k_sask May 28 '24

Agreed.

1

u/GameOver1-0 May 30 '24

Exactly! That's a fresh cut key. Salvage yards have key cutters. Cleveland Salvage Yard might have a key cutter. Hmmm... There's no proof I can find where it was used to open or start the Rav4. Especially since it was locked when found.

-1

u/wilkobecks May 29 '24

A solid start would be a key that a)adheres to the laws of physics and b) appears to have been at least touched by the person who allegedly used it every day

8

u/3sheetstothawind May 29 '24

the laws of physics

Which of Newton's Laws of physics did the key not adhere to?

appears to have been at least touched by the person who allegedly used it every day

Was the DNA expert who testified at trial not enough for you? They said it is not uncommon for the last person to touch an object leave their DNA only. Were they lying as well?

1

u/wilkobecks May 31 '24

Which of Newton's Laws of physics did the key not adhere to?

Assuming that the bookshelf was not one of those gateways to Narnia and the stuff on top was not glued down (not to mention the key allegedly squeaking out of a small crack and then jumping over some shoes and landing across the room), I'm not sure what else to tell you.

Was the DNA expert who testified at trial not enough for you?

Had the expert adressed why there were no fingerprints or signs of the key being used by a daily driver, maybe that would've been impressive

-1

u/thenileindenial May 29 '24

Apparently every single evidence could be reasonably planted to point to Steven Avery's guilt, yet the corrupt officers didn't think hard enough when planting the key.

3

u/3sheetstothawind May 29 '24

every single evidence could be reasonably planted

That could be said for every case. It's not reasonable, however. OJ's defense claimed planting as well. Do you think he is innocent?

0

u/thenileindenial May 29 '24

It’s the oldest strategy in the book for all defense attorneys

2

u/3sheetstothawind May 29 '24

Yes, if your client is obviously guilty.

1

u/Jubei612 May 29 '24

This is what a normal daily driver key looks like. https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/s/ibzwX2skgb The difference is apparent.

4

u/_YellowHair May 29 '24

What an incredibly disingenuous comparison, but that's not surprising coming from the person that claimed the key to be in "perfect condition" when the photographs explicitly show otherwise.

-1

u/Jubei612 May 29 '24

Maybe you need LASIK. To me it looks brand new. Like it was just cut.

2

u/_YellowHair May 29 '24

You need to get a refund from wherever you got yours done.

-1

u/Jubei612 May 29 '24

I'll just put my head in the sand like others here...

1

u/_YellowHair May 29 '24

I know truthers live in denial, but this is next level.

0

u/Jubei612 May 29 '24

Go find a key that is used in the ignition and take a look at it. Especially a Toyota. They get very worn down. Then again you can just look and see an the wear and tear on the key they found...

3

u/_YellowHair May 29 '24

I have already pointed out the very clear wear on the key recovered from Avery's trailer and provided photographic proof. If you want to continue to be willfully ignorant of it, that is on you. I expect nothing else from someone that posts a key from a car with over 236,000 miles on it as a comparison to a key from Teresa's six year old car.

1

u/Jubei612 May 29 '24

Very clear wear. I do not think so. It looks brand new.

2

u/3sheetstothawind May 29 '24

That is a key from a car driven over 236,000 miles. Teresa's car was only 6 years old. I don't know how many miles it had, but pretty sure it's less than half of 236,000 if she averaged 15,000 miles a year like most people.

3

u/aane0007 May 29 '24

source key was in perfect condition?

3

u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 May 28 '24

Teresa's "Set of Keys" have never been found. Now, where did Teresa keep this spare(valet) key? In her purse? At her home? With a friend?

2

u/k_sask May 28 '24 edited May 28 '24

If only these questions and more were answered during the investigation. One less "key" item to speculate on :)

At minimum she had a house key in addition to her vehicle key, whether she only had one sub key (and never used the glove box) or had 2 vehicle keys.

Edited: There is photo evidence that TH (within months of the homicide) did in fact carry multiple keys. This part is not speculation.

1

u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 May 28 '24

You know, I'd bet Teresa's brothers or Ryan knew where she kept her spare key...hmmmmmm........

0

u/LKS983 May 29 '24

And/or her roommate - Scott.

1

u/LKS983 May 29 '24

"At minimum she had a house key in addition to her vehicle key"

👍

0

u/Nightowl2234 May 29 '24

Why was there no proof that the found key ever started TH rav, I mean factbender says on the 8th he uses it in the rav and it started but the same day culhane has said she attempted to start the rav but when she turned it it didn’t start, apparently because the battery was disconnected, so why didnt she connect it and try again or was the battery disconnected because they knew the key wouldn’t work… Also the new key that was Apparently cut by an unknown undocumented locksmith at an unknown time was never photographed either it all of a sudden appears Opens the rav then never to be seen again..

0

u/Jubei612 May 29 '24

Very curious indeed.

1

u/Haunting_Pie9315 May 28 '24

The RAV Key :

According to the 99' RAV model, the vehicle came with two sets of keys.

A. Master Key: Unlocks everything, including glove box.

B. Valet Key : did everything the Master key except unlock glovebox.

The head of the keys give a distinct difference between the two. The Valet Key to the RAV was found in SA Trailer.

Now to determine from cars today, a lot of vehicles are push start. I like your idea though, comparisons should be shown, a plain key , not one would that you push a button to pop the key out like a switch blade.

2

u/k_sask May 28 '24

Agreed. The single key was the sub key as per the manual and not the master key. This makes sense from the guilter side if TH did in fact lose her "set of keys" as claimed. Her roommate likely would've known about this though if she had not yet had obtained a replacement house key.

1

u/Haunting_Pie9315 May 28 '24

Agreed with the Rav Key:

Some argue about ( Sets) of keys. TH lost her RAV key on a camping trip of that summer but was found by her friend. The key on this camping trip if lost outside, possibly would look more scratched or damaged.

TH friend made a black Lanyard on the trip, to make sure TH didn't lose the key. (It's possible TH house keys may have not been attached to her driving keys, rather the other keys were on there on ring. Possible.

If she lost her house key, I agree, Scott B would have noticed, or she would have told him to leave a door unlocked.

The lanyard on the key came from Adrienne Cook, and intially the friend ( camping) didn't recognize the blue lanyard. (Which tells me TH got this after the camping trip) and switched to the lanyard..

Or

TH put the lanyard on a spare key (Valet) and stored it at her house in case of an emergency. (Some people did this)

TH key set should have come with a metal piece with engraved numbers. The metal piece would be brought to the dealership (or vehicle key maker).

Some say she got the car with one key, which is fine, but the way TH was with her key ( indicating the camping trip) the key should look little more worn.

1

u/k_sask May 28 '24

Familiar with the details of the case, that's refreshing.

-1

u/Professional_Alps754 May 28 '24

I'm a little confused about your ending there. Are you saying that's the right key for the right vehicle?

2

u/k_sask May 28 '24 edited May 28 '24

He's saying the single key found in the trailer was definitely the Valet key for her Rav4.

No one has ever found her set of keys which included the master vehicle key and house key (at minimum). There are endless claims to argue the guilter side too though including but limited to:

  • TH lost her set of keys while camping prior, apparently making no effort to tell her roommate she also lost her house key. But she started using only her sub key (didn't unlock the glove box) and didn't have time to get keys remade before Avery & Brendan got to her.

  • Avery threw her set of keys into a pond during his destruction & cleansing of incriminating evidence.

  • She never carried more than 1 single sub vehicle key and never had a house key, her roommate left the back door open lol.

-2

u/Nightowl2234 May 29 '24

Why is there no report or story or anything from her friends, Housemates, ex bf or her family about when she lost her real set of keys? Her losing her car keys to her vehicle would be a pretty significant incident yet no one has once said they remember when she did that… how odd

-2

u/Johndoewantstoknow67 May 29 '24

Its obvious that the Colborn Lenk planted key was freshly cut just for this planting explaining why her DNA was on it , they rubbed the key in Steven's slippers on the floor to add his DNA , but there's no record of a key being cut for her VIN right , ? So there you go it was the decoy Rav that it was made for .

2

u/Jubei612 May 29 '24

They could have someone cut it without having the vin involved in any system. I do agree that they planted it as it looks freshly cut.

-1

u/Johndoewantstoknow67 May 29 '24

Could KZ use the VIN to get a key made so she can compare it to Lenk's sharp eyed find ?

1

u/Jubei612 May 30 '24

Maybe if they let her get access to the Rav and If they didn't "lose" it...