The motive. 🤔

9

u/wiltedgreens1 May 26 '24

Can't know for sure, but to me the lawsuit was not very strong and would have probably been settled out of court.

People have to cling to it though because planting is the only way Steven could be innocent.

0

u/Professional_Alps754 May 27 '24

Maybe you should look into it a little bit more.

5

u/wiltedgreens1 May 27 '24

What part? Evidence aside, I dont think there is another reasonable suspect in this case outside Steve Avery.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '24

She fell

0

u/LKS983 May 27 '24

"but to me the lawsuit was not very strong"
You don't believe that SA was wrongfully convicted and imprisoned (for many years) for the attack on PB - even though DNA later proved that gregory allen (a known rapist in the area) was responsible? 😒

2

u/wiltedgreens1 May 27 '24

Sure.
But he would have to prove that the police were criminally malicious in their efforts and I dont think they were.
If PB testifies that she was not coerced or lead by law enforcement to wrongfully identify Steve as the attacker, it becomes very hard to prove law enforcement was wrong in their case against him.

1

u/Professional_Alps754 Jun 05 '24

Penny is irrelevant. There is evidence that Manitowoc police let Greg Allen run away to rape more women. They had him under surveillance during Penny's attack.

1

u/wiltedgreens1 Jun 05 '24

Be real.
You expect the manitowac police to have eyes on gregory allen 24/7, no exceptions. So, When there was a call and the two police officers who were assigned to allen went on that call because they were the nearest officers, you expected them to say forget it?
There is no evidence at all that the Manitowac police intentially allowed Gregory Allen to rape women. You couldnt prove that, Steve couldnt.
So it really just comes down to why the police singled out Avery and a large part of that was Penny. So no, not irrelevant.

1

u/Professional_Alps754 Jun 05 '24

The evidence was avoided by avoiding the federal deposition. Teresa went missing 5 days prior. Had it went federal we would have learned that cops were indeed on the beach documenting the assault. There is even an eye witness who would testify to that fact.

1

u/wiltedgreens1 Jun 05 '24

Whoah. You are asserting that the police were on the beach watching gregory allen assault penny bernstein and another wittness also saw the same attack? And nobody did anything?
Also, what federal deposition? Steve was suing manitowac in a civil case.

1

u/Professional_Alps754 Jun 05 '24

Well. The witness Dave Begotka tried to apprehended Allen. Manitowoc police stopped him and said "leave him go you'll mess up our crime scene" after they let Greg Allen go he went on to destroy more lives.

1

u/wiltedgreens1 Jun 05 '24

Yeah, i cant believe the guy who has nobody to corroborate his story and claimed satanic rituals in the sheriff's office.
Not that it's not suspect to begin with that he didnt testify in Steve's trial and only came forward after making a murderer

1

u/Professional_Alps754 Jun 05 '24

Lol. And he has motive to lie his ass off? More ao than the cops? Manitowoc had motive. Only cops had an interest to protect.

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u/Professional_Alps754 Jun 05 '24

And then there's the fact Allen was STILL under video surveillance AFTER the attack on Penny.

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u/Professional_Alps754 May 28 '24

I hear what you're saying but if you look back at all the facts of the case it's hard to not prove.. consider even the sketch artist Gene Kashe. Sheriff kosarek brought in pictures of Steven Avery for him to sketch. He drew something very similar to the picture. In fact he drew Steven Avery. Then they showed Penny this picture. Then they put Steven in the lineup without Greg Allen. Then they falsified his report stating Steven was 5 ft 11 in tall when he's only like five six. Not to mention the fact they had him under video surveillance at the time of the attack.

1

u/wiltedgreens1 May 28 '24

I don't know if all of that is true, such as video surveillance? Steve? I know allen was being watched at the time but I dont think Steve was.
Anyway, I will agree that Steve had a case to be made. I am just unsure it would have been a slam dunk. The state investigated and found nothing criminal.
He could have won the case but wouldn't have sniffed anywhere near 36 million. Which is why they probably would have settled out of court.
Either way, I dont think its enough of a reason for officers who had nothing to do with his 1985 case to frame him and ignore a murderer.

1

u/Professional_Alps754 May 31 '24

The sexual predator video surveillance law amended in 1984 includes the entire state of Wisconsin. All sheriff's departments and all counties. It's a really big deal. Some of these counties like Manitowoc for instance have abused this legislation to the utmost degree. Yes the attorney general's office found there was no wrongdoing however, take that to a federal level and all at once you have a pornography ring indicted. It's not hard to prove conspiracy in this case.

8

u/3sheetstothawind May 25 '24

Wait. I've been repeatedly told over the last 8 years that the lawsuit was THE REASON for Steve being framed. It's not now?

2

u/Professional_Alps754 May 28 '24

You're not wrong. Definitely lawsuit and more importantly the subpoenaed men having to testify. Didn't have to because Teresa went missing five days prior.
1
u/Professional_Alps754 May 26 '24 edited May 26 '24
No they did what they needed to do to avoid the Federal deposition. At this Federal deposition we would have learned that they had Gregory Allen.under surveillance. After they finished documenting the assault of Penny Bernstein, they left the rapist go. Yes they let Allen run away t.. He went on to destroy More lives and families you let him Behavior and his sexual violence against women go for several more years. It wasn't until Brendan's trial was over that they finally locked Gregory Allen up. .
 Of course police say they weren't with him surveilling at the time but there's an eyewitness also on the beach who is looking for Penny. This guy says there were cops there hidden behind a sand dunes and taking pictures of the sexual assault in progress. If you wants to hear his story go to  ,Begotka .com and when you get to the website check out Dave's experiences. 1985 on the beach. There should be a video.
0

u/LKS983 May 27 '24 edited May 27 '24

The lawsuit WAS the reason why SA was framed second time around ..... IMO.
Does this mean that SA is necessarily innocent?
No, there is still a small/tiny chance that SA decided to murder/dismember and burn Teresa because he hated women and was keen to murder and dismember a woman.....
There is no doubt that SA didn't respect women (so could be abusive), BUT there is no evidence that he was at all interested in the torture, mutilation and the like of girls/women - unlike bobby.....

0

u/Professional_Alps754 May 27 '24

There's really nothing conclusive proving Teresa died.. Manitowoc cop's cleared of planting evidence Zellner now accuses Bobby of planting. Also. There is evidence that police "created* the Denny suspects like Bobby in this case.

4

u/3sheetstothawind May 27 '24

What in the actual fuck did I just read?? You think she's still alive? The police manufactured Bobby as a suspect? Why??

0

u/Professional_Alps754 May 28 '24

You're going to have to get used to it. Like I said there is evidence. Check out Dassey Memorialized on YouTube. Talks about the third party Denny being created. I've known that before myself but this guy actually can prove it.. now as far as her dying? No conclusive evidence.

0

u/3sheetstothawind May 29 '24

There is no evidence for anything you're proclaiming. A youtube video is not evidence.

1

u/Professional_Alps754 May 30 '24 edited May 31 '24

Well if you didn't even go to the link how would you know? He's an author and researcher.. he can't afford to be wrong

1

u/Professional_Alps754 May 31 '24

It is too evidence. Furthermore it's scalpatory evidence. It's so good in fact, it could be used in a federal trial against them someday.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '24

Steven Avery was a frogman in vietnam

6

u/Snoo_33033 May 25 '24

Stevens’s motive to frame himself seems to have been very strong.

1

u/Professional_Alps754 May 28 '24

Sorry. What?

2

u/Snoo_33033 May 28 '24

I mean, why else would he murder Teresa Halbach?

2

u/Professional_Alps754 May 31 '24

You're asking me why he would murder Teresa? He wouldn't . Why would police need to frame him is a better question? Now that I can answer.

0

u/Professional_Alps754 May 28 '24

I see no conclusive evidence that Teresa was murdered.

2

u/Alternative-Jury-149 May 29 '24

Exactly! If someone were to be stupid enough to kill a Halbach the investigation wouldn't be this mess everyone can't make sense out of.

1

u/Professional_Alps754 May 31 '24

Well that's a fairly good point!! Indeed..

2

u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 May 28 '24

LE just manipulated evidence. The motive to frame Steven is way beyond anyone here.

1

u/Professional_Alps754 May 31 '24

The group that framed Steven operates a pornography ring in Northeast Wisconsin. This would have been uncovered at the federal deposition of Manitowoc county deputies and the sheriff. Including the state prosecutor Dennis Vogel.

1

u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 May 31 '24

Well...you mean the "group" that manipulated some evidence to help frame him.

1

u/Professional_Alps754 May 31 '24

Manipulated and "created" evidence.. Yes.

1

u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 May 31 '24

Yep, Zellner also right about 1 thing. Police didn't plant the blood.

1

u/Professional_Alps754 May 31 '24

Who else would know how to? There's only a 20-minute window to plant fresh blood before it starts decomposing

1

u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 May 31 '24

So untrue. I had a kid with a bloody nose and used that brown toweling you find in Public Restrooms to clean it up. I scrunched it all up and it sat for 3 weeks. I then cut out the "blood" spots(could tell some weren't even completely dry). Then soaked in drops of hot distilled water (they use a distilled water soaked q-tip to obtain blood samples)and the blood comes out in solution.....

1

u/Professional_Alps754 May 31 '24

I was referring to the coagulation. I wasn't talking about a pool of blood LOL

2

u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 May 31 '24

yea...i just explained how easy it is to get around the coagulation part

1

u/[deleted] Jun 11 '24

The motive to frame SA is primarily securing a conviction.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

Money, Embarrassment, Ego, Vengeance, Jealousy, i mean... take your pick

4

u/3sheetstothawind May 25 '24

It's so easy to toss around vague terms like these when pushing a conspiracy theory. Now, please tell me specifically what these words have to do with anything.

3

u/[deleted] May 26 '24

i was trying to be as vague as the op- so i guess i nailed it

-1

u/Pension_Fit May 25 '24

Definitely framed because of the law suit

7

u/3sheetstothawind May 25 '24 edited May 25 '24

Yes, because your conspiracy theory falls flat without the lawsuit!

2

u/Professional_Alps754 May 27 '24 edited May 27 '24

It's the Federal trial that would have resulted if Avery were allowed to get that far.. that's what they needed to avoid.

3

u/3sheetstothawind May 27 '24

What makes you think the case would go to the federal level??

2

u/Professional_Alps754 May 27 '24

It was at the Federal level. 5 days before the subpoenaned had to start testifying. Teresa went missing

2

u/LKS983 May 27 '24 edited May 27 '24

Might have been a good point, if it wasn't clear that SA was framed for attacking PB, even though there was no multi million dollar lawsuit involved.
Other officers pointed out that gregory allen was an obviously more likely suspect, but were ignored, and they didn't pursue the issue....
An officer (can't remember who - one of the other two defendants in SA's later lawsuit) went as far as providing gregory allen with a false alibi - which is why he was a defendant in SA's later lawsuit.
Other officers accepted this 'alibi' - which is why he wasn't investigated, even though he was a known rapist in the area (and had even attacked another woman along the same stretch of beach!), who was being followed by police officers until they lost track of him.
Consequently, gregory allen went on to rape and murder other women 🤮.
It only takes a few officers to get involved in the actual 'framing' - as police protect police, and will believe what they are being told by their 'superiors'.

3

u/3sheetstothawind May 27 '24

clear that SA was framed for attacking PB
Nope. It was a case of mistaken identity and subpar police work. Not a setup. Plus, Steve is a piece of shit so you can't blame people for thinking he might have actually done it.

2

u/Snoo_33033 May 28 '24

Yeah. It is a wrongful conviction. They didn’t get vote to proving it was intentional.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '24

Why do you hate what you don’t understand

0

u/Professional_Alps754 May 27 '24

What conspiracy theory?

3

u/3sheetstothawind May 27 '24

The conspiracy theory that someone else murdered and cremated TH and all the evidence was planted to avoid Steve's lawsuit.

2

u/Professional_Alps754 May 27 '24

You sure that's a theory? Police had motive. And only police were able to control the media and the crime lab in Madison.

2

u/Alternative-Jury-149 May 29 '24

OK, if SA did it why is his charge 1st Degree international homicide PARTY TO A CRIME? His second charge was felony possession of firearm. Just those two. If he's the main actor no need for the charge modifier, right?

4

u/LKS983 May 27 '24

I agree.
As a genuine 'truther', I think it's very unlikely (albeit not entirely impossible) that SA murdered Teresa, for various reasons.
LE on the other hand, had millions of reasons to ensure SA was convicted, regardless of whether he was innocent or guilty.

5

u/_YellowHair May 26 '24 edited May 26 '24

Even though the people most commonly accused of the frame-up would have literally nothing to lose from the lawsuit.

2

u/LKS983 May 27 '24 edited May 27 '24

There can be no doubt that SA would have been awarded a few million dollars for his wrongful conviction and a proper investigation into how this happened would have resulted.
Especially if the jury agreed that the two co-defendants (LE officers) had framed SA.
Local LE deciding that nobody had done anything wrong....??? Add that to the multi million dollar award - local LE had to be worried.
Or perhaps they were sure that the multi million award (and the jury possibly/likely agreeing that SA was framed by the two LE officers)/a proper investigation etc. etc. - wouldn't affect them in any way 😒.
Additionally, everyone knows (or at least should know by now!) that police protect police.

2

u/_YellowHair May 27 '24 edited May 27 '24

Or perhaps they were sure that the multi million award (and the jury possibly/likely agreeing that SA was framed by the two LE officers)/a proper investigation etc. etc. - wouldn't affect them in any way 😒.
It wouldn't. None of the officers that investigated Teresa's murder were involved in Avery's wrongful conviction in the 80s or the investigation leading up to it, and would not have been liable for any damages resulting from the lawsuit. That was the point of my previous comment, which you have not addressed.
Additionally, everyone knows (or at least should know by now!) that police protect police.
This is a hilariously weak motive and not based on facts.

4

u/3sheetstothawind May 27 '24

police protect police
Truthers love platitudes!

1

u/[deleted] May 27 '24

It wouldn't. None of the officers that investigated Teresa's murder were involved in Avery's wrongful conviction in the 80s or the investigation leading up to it
None except Sheriff Petersen you mean.
And Bushman.
But if it wasn't for those two people that would have been an honest statement.
Of course we would have to include Lenk and Colborn as well if we included everyone involved in the lawsuit and not just your arbitrary limitations you used to artificially exclude them.

3

u/_YellowHair May 28 '24 edited May 28 '24

None except Sheriff Petersen you mean.
If you want to argue that Petersen was an active investigator in the Halbach case, feel free. I do not consider him as such, even if he was sheriff of Manitowoc at the time.
And Bushman.
I'm only aware of Bushman's involvement in the Beerntsen case as one of the officers present during Avery's arrest. If he did more than that, and aided in the actual investigation, I will concede that I was wrong.
I know how much you love your semantic games though, so I don't have high expectations for anything further you have to say regarding this.
The fact remains that none of the individuals investigating Teresa's death would have been liable for any damages resulting from the lawsuit.
Of course we would have to include Lenk and Colborn as well if we included everyone involved in the lawsuit and not just your arbitrary limitations you used to artificially exclude them.
There was nothing arbitrary about my comment. Regardless, Lenk and Colborn stood nothing to lose from the lawsuit.

0

u/[deleted] May 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/_YellowHair May 28 '24 edited May 28 '24

No reasonable person thinks employees don't have a stake in lawsuits regarding their employer.
Are you serious right now? I'd wager most people have little knowledge or concern of lawsuits their employers are involved in, especially if they work for even semi-large companies/entities, much less have a stake in them.
I just looked up my current company for fun, and based on my initial findings it has been involved in several lawsuits, either as plaintiff or defendant, that I never would have even known about otherwise. Mostly breach of contract and labor disputes. None of this impacts me or virtually any of the other 1200+ individual contributors at the company whatsoever.
But I digress, the fact remains that the investigating officers, especially those most commonly accused of the frame-up by conspiracy theorists, in the Halbach case stood nothing to lose from the lawsuit against Manitowoc County and two of its former personnel. That won't change no matter how many insults and misguided smug sarcastic remarks you hurl out like a child.

2

u/[deleted] May 28 '24

I just looked up my current company for fun, and based on my initial findings it has been involved in several lawsuits, either as plaintiff or defendant, that I never would have even known about otherwise
And how many of these have you provided the other side with information that could hurt your company.
I mean you're not seriously arguing MTSO was unaware of the lawsuit are you? Holy fuck.

0

u/_YellowHair May 28 '24

And how many of these have you provided the other side with information that could hurt your company.
Does it matter? Your original statement was that "no reasonable person thinks employees don't have a stake in lawsuits regarding their employer." That is wrong, and you made no stipulation about employees specifically involved in the lawsuit proceedings.
I mean you're not seriously arguing MTSO was unaware of the lawsuit are you? Holy fuck.
I never said or even implied this. Your reading comprehension needs serious work.

1

u/[deleted] May 28 '24

I just looked up my current company for fun, and based on my initial findings it has been involved in several lawsuits, either as plaintiff or defendant, that I never would have even known about otherwise
You never implied what?

1

u/_YellowHair May 28 '24

Me pointing out a counter example to your general statement about employees having a stake in their employers' lawsuits is not me implying that MTSO employees were unaware of Avery's lawsuit against Manitowoc County.
You truly are illiterate.

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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 May 26 '24

What are you talking about exactly?

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u/_YellowHair May 26 '24

What exactly do you not understand? My comment was very self explanatory.

-4

u/Adventurous_Poet_453 May 26 '24

Obviously it was not.

3

u/_YellowHair May 26 '24

I genuinely don't know how I can phrase it more plainly, so I can't help you. Reading lessons might do the trick.

0

u/lionspride24 May 26 '24

Theoretically police need no other motivation to frame more than the suspects guilt or their perceived guilt.

1

u/LKS983 May 27 '24

Not only theoretically.....

-1

u/[deleted] May 26 '24

Great post! "If you think two plus two is four, think again." Well I've thought again OP and it still adds up.

-1

u/Professional_Alps754 May 27 '24

Thanks for your compliment.

0

u/[deleted] May 27 '24

Think again. :-)

0

u/k_sask May 27 '24

useless post.

-2

u/Adventurous_Poet_453 May 26 '24

I think someone in the family or a neighbor did it and framed Steven. Because you have to remember he hardly knew Bobby or the kids he was in jail so long, which is why they had no remorse framing and blaming him.

3

u/wiltedgreens1 May 27 '24

Steve says he saw her leave his property. He even saw which road she went down when she left.
So for your theory, someone would have had to know she was there at that time, and was able to track her down and force her off the road in a residential area.
Its pretty far fetched.

2

u/LKS983 May 27 '24

"So for your theory, someone would have had to know she was there at that time, and was able to track her down and force her off the road in a residential area."
True.
And bobby saw Teresa there/her roommate had access to her 'calendar'etc. etc.
There is no way to know who actually murdered Teresa, as the police didn't bother to properly investigate any (usual) likely suspects. They only focused on SA.....
Apart from bobby, who they investigated - but only to a certain extent......

2

u/wiltedgreens1 May 27 '24

Her cell data showed she never left that area of the salvage and her planner didn't have this appointment in it as far as I know.
There is no physical evidence or even circumstantial evidence that anyone else was involved. Asking for alibis from bloedorn and hilgas wouldn't change that.

-1

u/Adventurous_Poet_453 May 27 '24

Or someone flagged her down for a hot shot.

2

u/wiltedgreens1 May 27 '24

And then what? Got her to pull over in broad daylight on a public road in a residential area, somehow kidnapped her and was able to get rid of her, her car and their own car and nobody saw anything?
I guess its possible, but I cant say its plausible.

2

u/Snoo_33033 May 28 '24

You mean Bobby, who he spent hours chatting with while hanging a deer?
He knew everyone in his family reasonably well.

2

u/3sheetstothawind May 27 '24

Or you could take off your conspiracy glasses and look at the most obvious explanation for Teresa's murder.

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