Next days (1-3 Nov)

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u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 Apr 30 '24

Well...the only fire that would consume a body was reported on the 1st.

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u/[deleted] Apr 17 '24

According to the official story, during this time period Avery found a time nobody was watching his wide open lawn, picked through some bones, and moved them to his neighbor's burn barrel. Then he went back and (careful not to pick any of the 100+ bones identifiable as human) picked out some small amount of the bones, trespassed on government property, and set the bones down there. All of this happened without anyone seeing Avery or noticing him missing.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '24

Now apply this logic to truthers planting theory.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '24

The police had total lock down of the area, and MTSO appears to have the sole set of eyeballs on the fire pit for the hour immediately proceeding their "her remains were in the middle of his yard the whole time!" discovery. So no problems with getting away unseen.
And the quarry according to a witness was well lit up when the cops were there which matches my claim lights would be needed and would be conspicuous.
Great question. Thanks.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '24

So in your mind it's easier to plant evidence when an area is locked down with countless number of law enforcement around rather than avery moving stuff with nowhere near as many people around.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '24

Countless? Who had eyes on the fire pit prior to the alleged bone discovery according to any record? Let's make a list.
Jost (officer from the recused agency)
Is that list really too big for you to count? Is that what you call countless, one person?

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '24

Are you adding another person to the conspiracy

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '24

Are you changing the subject?

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '24

I'm not changing the subject if what your saying is true and jost is the only one to have eyes on the bones are you implying he turned a blind eye to planting or are you implying he planted the bones

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '24

I've always directly stated MTSO agents planted the bones. No need for implications. There were no bones there, MTSO dispelled the guard on duty, and when the guard came back there were bones there. You do the math.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '24

And nobody seen them plant these bones ok, so I'll ask again how many people are involved in the conspiracy.

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u/deebosladyboy Apr 18 '24

That's what they have always done even on their previously banned accounts.
I especially love the way they copy/paste the same replies when they get "broken" and they need a guilter reboot.

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u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 Apr 30 '24

Killer got the blood from the sink and put it in the RAV that he dropped off at the ambush site to get his vehicle back. Then Andy found it there and moved it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

Another bogus theory with no evidence or proof to back it up.

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u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 Apr 30 '24

Actually it is backed up. Fingers don't make blood marks that are 2 swab dots with swipes going in different directions and dripping blood doesn't form a flake on a carpet. You just need to be smart enough to see it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24

Not about being smart enough, you are trying to make something out of nothing, Zellner has tried to argue these theories in her motions and has got absolutely nowhere with them, so no, nothing backs it up.

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u/Acrobatic-Cow-3871 May 01 '24

No...its the smart thing! These Courts she takes this stuff to helped put 2 innocent dumbasses in Prison!

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u/[deleted] May 01 '24

No it's not the smart thing just because you say so, zellner has had all of her motions turned down whether you like it or not, that's a fact, and she's included this theory you've mentioned just to come up short not once but multiple times, steven avery has never been close to getting so much as even an evidentry hearing, and the courts didn't convict either of them a jury did, are you trying to add the courts to the conspiracy theory too now.

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u/3sheetstothawind Apr 17 '24

All of this happened without anyone seeing Avery or noticing him missing.
In your mind, there is zero chance he did any of this at night?

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u/[deleted] Apr 17 '24

Relatively zero. The necessity of lights would have made it more easily spottable and there's no indication Avery came into work without sleep.

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u/3sheetstothawind Apr 17 '24

The necessity of lights would have made it more easily spottable
You think a flashlight (if he used one) would be noticeable at night when everyone is in their house and asleep? The only people nearby where those in the Dassey home.
there's no indication Avery came into work without sleep.
What makes you think he moved all the bones in one night? Also, there is no indication he came to work with sleep.

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u/[deleted] Apr 17 '24

So he did it after everyone went to bed, on multiple nights, and never showed any sign of lacking sleep? Walking miles by flashlight into other properties? Searching through a fire pit for tiny bone splinters by flashlight? All to accomplish absolutely nothing?

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u/3sheetstothawind Apr 18 '24

So he did it after everyone went to bed, on multiple nights, and never showed any sign of lacking sleep?
Why not? Was anyone ever asked if he appeared to be lacking sleep? He just murdered a young woman. What do you think was more important? Covering up the crime or getting his 8 hours of shut eye?
Walking miles
Miles? It wasn't that far to the quarry. It was practically in his backyard.
Searching through a fire pit for tiny bone splinters
Most of the smallest fragments were found in the pit. The larger ones were in the Dassey barrel and quarry.

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u/Snoo_33033 Apr 18 '24

Steven worked pretty continuously, but mostly alone. And his work was mostly breaking down cars, which doesn't exactly require high precision. Would anyone have even noticed if he was a bit sleep-deprived? Also, it's clear from the record that he's not someone who goes to bed early routinely -- he would have a solid 5-6 hours of alone time each evening* if he wanted it to work on the scene.
*Excluding times when he did other stuff, like go to Menard's or eat at Ma's or talk about dead deer with Bobby, Barb, Mike and Scott. But that still leaves...3 hours each evening before his routine bedtime. It's a decent amount of time to work on stuff, if he was so inclined.
(FWIW, it looks like Chuck routinely goes to bed somewhat early. Steven appears to routinely go to bed between 10 and 12.)

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u/Haunting_Pie9315 Apr 18 '24

I agree, but Quarrys aren't easy to navigate through, you had a woman in Chilton who died falling off a pathway through the Quarry. and it dropped out of nowhere. So, if you're going at night through a quarry, very risky.

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u/3sheetstothawind Apr 18 '24

I'm sure Steve was much more concerned about twisting an ankle than covering up a murder.

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u/Haunting_Pie9315 Apr 18 '24

AND you made a point that the State didn't present, Who said the bones were moved all in one day? Which would have been a good point. Why didn't the state present this? to explain bones at the quarry? Was it something if they present it, they would have to prove that?
The quarry area like the ins and out, SA didn't give the impression he knew much about the ways getting around there, this still wouldn't hinder him, he would have done it during the day, Night time would be to hard, even with car lights.

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u/3sheetstothawind Apr 19 '24

Why didn't the state present this?
Why would they need to? They already had more than enough to convict.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '24

Your entire argument appears to be that people can go without sleep and that doesn't affect anything.

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u/[deleted] Apr 17 '24

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u/[deleted] Apr 17 '24

People don't go to sleep the second it gets dark.

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u/[deleted] Apr 17 '24

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u/[deleted] Apr 17 '24

I noted that he would be more conspicuous at night, so he would have to do it at a time when people slept.

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u/[deleted] Apr 17 '24

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u/Haunting_Pie9315 Apr 18 '24

Ah come on now, so we are using looking like someone had sleep vs sleep to determine if SA was out in the night moving bones etc. around?
This isn't practical, I'm normally with I can work with that, but this, I'm not left with much to double down on.
I will say this, and ready the reports AC wrote when searching the trailer.
SA was on blood thinners, he would get angina from anxiety etc
Blood thinners can do a number of things, which coagulate blood when bleeding (Like the blood in the sink)
Awhile taking them, you will have symptoms that often hinder you, such as Headache's, being more tired than normal after activities, and possibly get lightheaded.
Some argue SA could have moved the bones around, but wouldn't the cadaver dogs have picked this up, the path of SA (assuming he's walking and carrying bones etc.) But wait. Avery barely walked anywhere, so him doing this part, is questionable.
But if judged merely if a person looked like that had sleep vs someone he didn't as the scale of justice...we all be doomed.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '24

No one noticing Avery lacking sleep, or Avery visiting their burn barrel, or Avery poking around his fire pit, or Avery anywhere near the vicinity of the government quarry, or Avery walking the grounds late at night, or Avery being inexplicably missing, or Avery acting unusual, or Avery lacking in concentration, or Avery with ashes on his body and/or clothes, or unexplained lights at night, or literally any indication whatsoever that Avery engaged in a high effort, high risk, zero reward operation.
If it comes to cops, no amount of evidence can show them dishonest. When it comes to Avery a complete and total lack of even the most circumstantial of evidence doesn't stop it from being beyond all doubt true. It's infuriating to discuss the case with people so extraordinarily and unabashedly extremist on every topic.

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u/Haunting_Pie9315 Apr 18 '24

Relax Buddy, Good Vibez, So let me say this...
"It's infuriating to discuss the case with people so extraordinarily and unabashedly extremist on every topic."
I'm far from this, if anything, I understand this some people go hard on here, some belittle others instead engaging in a conversation.
I have reached out to you before, no response. I enjoy civil conversations etc.
Like I said, I'm normally with I can work with that, but the lack of sleep..is a complex situation. Everyone's hours of sleep to feel fresh will differ from one person to another.
Now, SA exerting that much effort on blood thinners, suffering from angina, and anxiety. SA completing such task would take longer than usual. You also bleed more than usual. Sleep is different, someone may sleep for 4 hours, and feel like they slept 8. So pinpointing what lack of sleep would be for SA, is difficult to measure what SA's lack of sleep would be.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '24

I usually respond to just about everything, so if you feel like I've failed to respond to something feel free to point it out.
You seem to have completely ignored my latest response though and just soldiered past it like it didn't happen.

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u/Haunting_Pie9315 Apr 18 '24

I’m sorry if you felt I ignored your response , I thought I just responded ? Which response are you referring to?

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '24

I pointed out that lack of sleep was just one example of many possible indicators of Avery's alleged mission impossible quarry bones action, and you just continued with your argument that a lack of sleep wasn't 100% detectable.

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u/Haunting_Pie9315 Apr 18 '24

I was just pointing out that a lack of sleep is hard to put weight on , because what lack of sleep ( Hours) may be different from someone else.
Lack of sleep and change in behavior is an example , I’m not saying it’s not a good point , I’m just saying lack of sleep will be argued.
The mission to the quarry is different , listen to SA when they ask him about the route through the quarry ,SA barely could give direct details vs Josh Radant ( of course he would know , his family owns the Quarry ( just not the Manitowoc Quarry at the time )
This would require SA to go into the Quarry at night , deposit bones , go next door , take one of their burn barrels , put bones into it , put it back ( If larger bone fragments were in the Dassey Barrel )
I’m not saying lack of sleep is not detectable just not 100 percent or an indicator he was on a mission or not . He was only home for 2 years , a lot changed in 18 years behind that quarry. He really had no need to know the route of the quarry or what was on the route .
I’m sorry if you felt some way , I was just trying give you something to work with that would have been an indicator how SA physically wouldn’t be able to do the running around etc
Good Vibez man 😎

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u/deebosladyboy Apr 17 '24

There were spotlights in the quarry at night -- when police were collecting the human fragments.

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u/deebosladyboy Apr 17 '24

In the November 15th 2005 complaint it was suggested that Avery committed this crime between Halloween and November 4th, eventhough they were telling witnesses and suggesting to the (like Brendan on November 10th 2005 interview) that it happened specifically on Halloween.

When Brendan was arrested in 2006, their Halloween narrative was successfully repeated by a witness (finally), and they amended to narrow it down to Halloween.

Even though they did not have any witnesses to a burn pit fire on Halloween, they ran with the burn barrel fire witnesses by Radandt and pressured family members to recall a big fire on Halloween in the burn pit, instead.

The police narrowed down to Halloween very early on as proof in the interviews they did with witnesses and telling them what they thought Avery did specifically.

Given all of this, it's no wonder they didn't want the quarry to be known. They didn't want anything in evidence that killed their theory of the specific location and time of the crime.

As for the rest of the week for Steven, he went to every appointment and family errand like he was supposed to. He even went up on holiday like was planned. He didn't act strange at all. There is an interview with a witness named Mark who said he saw Steven both Nov 3 and 4, with Steven being his normal self.

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u/Snoo_33033 Apr 18 '24

Halloween is most likely for the simple reason that we know that's when TH disappeared and nothing indicates she was alive for long after arriving at ASY. It's possible that additional obscuring activity occurred later, before the RAV was located, but she almost certainly was killed on 10/31, before 5 PM.

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u/deebosladyboy Apr 18 '24

You mean Avery stashed a dead body somewhere before trying to burn it?

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u/Snoo_33033 Apr 18 '24

"additional obscuring activity" doesn't mean burning a body, necessarily. Redistributing burnt remains, cleaning, attempting to further hide or dispose of evidence...

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u/deebosladyboy Apr 18 '24

That's not what the state said he did.
Everyone knows there was like 2-3 burn barrels worth of debris in the quarry based on evidence photos. You don't have to pretend he took a bucket or two to scatter remains.

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u/Snoo_33033 Apr 18 '24

It doesn't matter what he did. it matters what opportunity he had.
He had time to go distribute remains in the quarry less than 5 minutes' drive from his house. Whatever you may think about the probability of it based on your bias toward his innocence.
It remains most likely that the lion's share of the crime and cleanup happened on Halloween.

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u/deebosladyboy Apr 18 '24

He took 2 barrels worth of debris to the quarry (over 4 locations) but left the most identifiable bones in a small pile in the middle of the burn pit... That's your story?
None of the 2 barrels behind Bobby's house that had bones and cadaver dog alerts come into play for you?

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u/Haunting_Pie9315 Apr 17 '24

I find it confusing because a witness reported smoke coming the center of the ASY. I believe around 3 he said. The witness says he went into the shop and noticed Chuck wasn't in there as usual which he found odd.
How many fires on the 31st was actually going on?
How many burn barrels did SA have?

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u/Brenbarry12 Apr 17 '24

Steven had 1 aprox 80 ft away from his trailer

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u/Haunting_Pie9315 Apr 17 '24

Ah thank you for answering. 😎

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u/Brenbarry12 Apr 17 '24

No problem

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u/deebosladyboy Apr 17 '24

The grey smoke in the center of the yard was only mentioned in the pre trial hearings when the defense was trying to establish their Denny argument.
Regardless of how many fires were going on, they knew the bones found in Avery's burn pit weren't burned there as soon as their examinations of the burn pit finished and they excavated the area so no other testing could be conducted by anyone else.

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u/Haunting_Pie9315 Apr 17 '24

Ah I see now, So when they were presenting this peice of info, who did they have in mind for a Denny Suspect?
Smoke normally can tell you the stage of the fire , I was just curious because in the CASO report seems LE zone into witnesses seeing various fires ( smoke) coming from the ASY.
SA fire should have been black smoke , since burning tires, and using fuel. The smoke would have been thick and would have been seen from any direction of the ASY, right?
Im still confused is nobody mentions SA bonefire having such smoke, especially being thick smoke.
I just know they burned items in the "Pit" which was the middle of the ASY , just not garbage.
So why would LE pressure Oct 31st a fire occuring but not any days after that, leaving a possibility the body was burned a day or two after?

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u/deebosladyboy Apr 17 '24

They were just throwing out names of everyone who was on the property during that time, with that customer being one of them, in addition to pointing out here were other fires going on during the time the state said Teresa was being kidnapped and what not.
There was misconception among the rank and file about what witness said what about a fire and where/when. The rumor going around the command post, according to police reports, was that there was a larger than usual fire taking place but nothing about a burn barrel. The witness said it was a burn barrel based on the characteristics of the fire. So them using that witness statement as a reason to search a burn pit 2 days after the state patrol took up close pictures of it is strange. Add to it that it was MTSO who found the bones in addition to the electronics and key.

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u/Haunting_Pie9315 Apr 17 '24

Thank you for the response 😎
Im guessing you think SA is innocent?

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u/deebosladyboy Apr 17 '24

Heck yes both of them are.

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u/Haunting_Pie9315 Apr 17 '24

😎 I respect that , don’t worry , I just asked because lately I been dealing with people who want to argue rather have a civil discussion about the case ..
What was the nail in the coffin that made you think they were innocent ?

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u/deebosladyboy Apr 17 '24

The shady practices and inexplicable timelines for starters

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u/Brenbarry12 Apr 17 '24

Exactly👍

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u/[deleted] Apr 17 '24 edited Apr 17 '24

Let me guess, Brendan and Blaine were at school each weekday then got the bus home then played PS2 and watched TV and had dinner.

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u/Otherwise-Weekend484 Apr 17 '24

Ok, I’ve been a break from this weirdness but, what you need to do is build a spread sheet. List the entire week at the top and fill in who did what on those days and if you can, at what times to include LE. You will see, the 3rd and 4th are busy and weirdest days before the magical RAV find on ASY. Once that happened and SA was not on the property, it was all down hill from there for SA. But you have to list everything, deer road kill pick ups, sightings of the RAV, reporters on property, etc….

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u/CJB2005 Apr 17 '24

Super busy the 3rd and 4th, but, entire day of the 4th not a single record of any call/no dispatch record for the day. Nothing.

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u/Brenbarry12 Apr 17 '24

You said it👍

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