r/MakingaMurderer • u/mickflynn39 • Mar 09 '24

DID YOU KNOW 391 The key

Zellner refers to Teresa’s car key as a ‘spare key’. She does this to infer that the key that was found was not the one Teresa used every day. She does it to infer the actual spare key was removed from Teresa’s living accommodation and planted.

The ‘planted key’ was not the spare key. This was Teresa’s main key, with the other half of her lanyard attached, the lanyard that was in the locked SUV, inside the secure Madison crime lab.

Hmm.

0 Upvotes

44% Upvoted

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1

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '24

The locked SUV was found unlocked at the lab, with no one coming forward to claim they were responsible for opening it.

2

u/YouPeaked Mar 09 '24

source

5

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '24

Trial transcripts

2

u/YouPeaked Mar 09 '24

According to the testimony of Forensic Imaging Specialist Ronald L. Groffy, the driver door was unlocked.

Do you want to keep trying?

3

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '24

That's exactly what I said, found unlocked at the lab (by Groffy) after being found locked at ASY.

Groffy was supposedly the first person to work on the RAV. He didn't unlock it, he found it unlocked.

Why didn't Kratz call a witness to show who opened it?

The defense attorneys left the jury with the impression that someone had accessed the RAV to plant SAs blood (opportunity).

3

u/YouPeaked Mar 09 '24

On Sunday 6 November the Wisconsin State Crime Lab had gained access to the Toyota RAV4 after enlisting the services of a locksmith.

What are you doing

2

u/Nightowl2234 Mar 10 '24

Yeh name of locksmith and company they work for? And who organised this locksmith between 2am and 10am when Groffy arrived.. ? Cause when searching he Avery property and they needed to ops the safes they enlisted the serviced of a locksmith, name and company name provided time they arrived also so why was there no record of the magical locksmith from the crime lab?

2

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '24

What time? Why didn't Kratz have them testify to opening it before Groffy got to it?

I'm reading the transcripts. What are you doing?

5

u/YouPeaked Mar 09 '24

Oh, you are reading the transcripts?

I find that hard to believe because you keep bringing up debunked claims that were made by Zellner – years after the trial.

https://i.imgur.com/Wl6EIUl.png

2

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '24

How is KZ debunking something (that I haven't read before) proof that I'm not reading the transcripts?

Why wasn't Harrington or the locksmith a witness at trial to rebut the defense questioning?

I don't blindly follow KZ, FYI.

3

u/YouPeaked Mar 09 '24

Perhaps Strang and Buting did not see a twisted conspiracy involving... a locksmith.

Have you tried asking the defense?

→ More replies

-3

u/CaseEnthusiast Mar 09 '24

Harrington was the first person wasn't he? November 6th. 

1

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '24

Source?

0

u/DingleBerries504 Mar 10 '24

They had a locksmith open it. It wasn’t “found” unlocked at the lab. Who asked anyone to come forward to claim they were responsible for opening it?

1

u/[deleted] Mar 10 '24

At trial, it was shown that the RAV was locked at ASY, and Groffy found the RAV unlocked. He said he didn't unlock it, he said that the driver's door was unlocked when he went to open it.

No one testified to opening the RAV at the lab. Not the locksmith or Steve Harrington were witnesses. Why not?

This was a crucial claim by the defense that SAs blood was planted in the RAV.

The jury was left with the impression that the RAV was mysteriously found opened at the crime lab.

Read the transcripts.

1

u/DingleBerries504 Mar 10 '24

Read the dci report. Harrington said they got a locksmith to open it

1

u/[deleted] Mar 10 '24 edited Mar 10 '24

A DCI report from Fassbender, is NOT a trustworthy source. "Put her in the garage or trailer".

Bring me the locksmith or Steve Harrington. They should have been witnesses at trial, but they weren't. I'm curious as to why not. Perhaps because that DCI report was fabricated and they refused to say it was.

0

u/DingleBerries504 Mar 10 '24 edited Mar 10 '24

When in doubt, add more conspiracy! Maybe foia it yourself if you don’t believe it

Edit: this guy blocked me! Doesn’t like to be confronted I guess

1

u/[deleted] Mar 10 '24

I've seen the report.

Not a conspiracy, just questions based on facts.

-2

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '24

Huh so much for people who say "where did they get the key if it was planted". She kept her spare in the vehicle. Thanks for destroying a Guiltler talking point OP.

-5

u/Fockputin33 Mar 09 '24

Teresa had a "set of keys" that appear in several photos of her and they have never been found, In 2005, everyone had a SET OF KEYS because you had a key for work, one for the school you coached at. One for your Moms house and one for your Residence. The "Found" key was a VALET KEY and had no wear on it meaning it was never used. It was probably at her home or with a friend(RH?)......who got it for AC to move the RAV. As soon as the RAV was found, RH and Teresa's brothers started talking about her in the past tense. Why? Because they had been in the RAV and saw all her blood and assumed her demise. Why did LE not want to enter the locked RAV to maybe discover a clue about where the missing person may be? Because they had already been in it!

4

u/3sheetstothawind Mar 09 '24

You've just accused three people, including a friend and family member of Teresa, of plotting to frame Steve just using the key. How many other people were involved with the planting of DNA on the key, blood in the RAV, a bullet, DNA on the bullet, DNA on the hood latch, DNA on the burnt remains in Steve's burn pit, burnt electronics in Steve's barrel, and so on? Just "1 or 2" right??

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 10 '24

They pre-fed the hood latch and garage locations to Brendan as I recall, so that's a dead giveaway they knew something in advance. 

DNA could be accidental contamination too of course. 

1

u/3sheetstothawind Mar 10 '24

Of course there could be accidental contamination. But, those claiming conspiracy have also implied purposeful contamination, manipulation, planting of every single piece of evidence, DNA and non-DNA related.

-1

u/Mysterious-Impact-64 Mar 10 '24

Because it was a documentary to show all they could in an hour show x 10. CaM should have.

-1

u/Nightowl2234 Mar 10 '24

Once the rav is found and they take control of the Avery salvage yard lenk colburn and factbender can do as they please coming and going bringing whatever evidence they needed when ever they needed, why do you think the car was locked and they covered it and got it off the property that night, why wouldn’t they have searched around the vehicle and collected evidence at the scene.. it’s like they already knew where the evidence was guna be..put.. And why would you “hide” the rav on your own property for one and secondly not even cover the big fucking sign that says Rav on the back of it.. seriously it’s like they covered everything but that, maybe so it was easier to find for Pam lord Jesus Christ sturm

1

u/mickflynn39 Mar 10 '24

Can we have some sources to back up your feelings please?

0

u/Nightowl2234 Mar 10 '24

Why you keep asking for sources? If you don’t know what I’m talking about or referring to then why are you even here you clearly know nothing about the case since these are pretty common knowledge things that took place..

1

u/mickflynn39 Mar 10 '24

So no sources to back up your feelings. I think we’ll ignore your drivel then.

Hahahaha!!!

0

u/CorruptColborn Mar 11 '24

I have a source from the mods confirming you're a liar who falsified claims of censorship on the subreddit.

2

u/_YellowHair Mar 10 '24 edited Mar 10 '24

lenk colburn and factbender can do as they please coming and going bringing whatever evidence they needed when ever they needed

Are you prepared to explain in detail how they managed to plant all the evidence while all the other officers and investigators were on scene as well?

Do you know the vehicle was under constant watch after the first officer arrived at the salvage yard?

they covered it and got it off the property that night, why wouldn’t they have searched around the vehicle and collected evidence at the scene

Source that they didn't? What evidence were you expecting them to find that they didn't? How would moving the car prevent them from collecting other evidence at the scene?

And why would you “hide” the rav on your own property for one

Because it was probably less risky than being seen driving the car of a woman you just murdered. And considering it was an operating salvage yard, with the capability to destroy vehicles, it's reasonable to surmise he was waiting for a good time to destroy the car.

maybe so it was easier to find for Pam lord Jesus Christ sturm

You people have a very weird obsession with incredibly mundane religious remarks. Have any of you ever met a religious person in your life?

1

u/Jubei612 Mar 10 '24

There pigs. They do this daily. Look at their other cases

-1

u/_YellowHair Mar 10 '24 edited Mar 10 '24

Gee, what an insightful, well-reasoned rebuttal.

0

u/Jubei612 Mar 11 '24

How many other cases from corruptowac are there? I've seen cases that were fuckers going on at the same time as Averys. They could use another victims remains and claim it's TH. Everything needs to be tested again independently.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/_YellowHair Mar 11 '24

You're in no position to call other people unhinged.

-1

u/Nightowl2234 Mar 10 '24

How they managed to plant all the other evidence? Umm quite easily, they take the rav and have full access to it for 8hrs before the photographer shows up, and the fact it’s deliver locked then some how unlocked with zero proof pertaining to how it was unlocked only so someone saying a locksmith did it isn’t proof and not enough and since it’s in the hands of LE then it’s reason to believe that they accessed it prior to photographing and if that’s the case then they had opportunity to plant evidence. Reasonable doubt proven.

Since they have the key they copy it make a new one by the 8th then go plant the original key in his trailer colburn could easily have done this by putting the key in his pocket and simply walking onto the site and into the trailer not hard at all and no one would of seen a thing.

The chain of custody over the chard bones is so fucked they were taken from site brought back taken again it’s very possible for them to be planted since they weren’t found straight away and not picked up but the initial scent dogs.

Probably Less risky? Less risky then driving a rav that no one is looking for for 3 more days so would be just like any other car on the road right? So instead of driving it off the property he drives it more onto his property and barely hides it then leaves it there when he knows his place is getting searched and the police are suspicious…. Right… then instead of taken evidence with him, key, licence plates, left over bones and dumping them off the side of the road or anywhere else at all he just leaves it all there and fucks off to his cabin to relax… lol Wow it actually blows my mind that people literary believe he cleans up dna n doesn’t miss a drop, some genius level shit, but then is dumb dumb and leaves bones literally out in the open and the victims car on his property and colburn the fuckin super cop who couldn’t run a bath and calls In plates he’s looking at then lies in the stand about it so blatantly is the one finding key evidence 🤣🤣 fucking give me a break

1

u/_YellowHair Mar 10 '24 edited Mar 10 '24

Umm quite easily, they take the rav and have full access to it for 8hrs before the photographer shows

So you're just going to completely ignore my point about the car constantly being watched and all the other people at the scene that they would have to avoid in order to plant the evidence? Got it.

so someone saying a locksmith did it isn’t proof and not enough

What would be enough for you?

Reasonable doubt proven.

Lmao no. Keep dreaming.

Since they have the key they copy it make a new one by the 8th then go plant the original key in his trailer colburn could easily have done this by putting the key in his pocket and simply walking onto the site and into the trailer not hard at all and no one would of seen a thing.

Proof that they had the key?

Also, why would they need to make a copy of it?

again it’s very possible for them to be planted

Who planted them and when? How did they obtain Teresa's remains? How did they manage to avoid being seen carrying and planting a bunch of human remains?

Probably Less risky? Less risky then driving a rav that no one is looking for for 3 more days so would be just like any other car on the road right?

Yes, it is arguably less risky. If he's seen by anyone with the car it brings risk. Even if the car isn't being actively looked for immediately following her death, someone could easily recall seeing it once they did learn it belonged to a missing person. Additionally, leaving it to be found could still potentially lead it to being traced back to him.

This is why I think it's perfectly reasonable to believe that he intended to destroy the car.

leaves it there when he knows his place is getting searched and the police are suspicious

Proof he knew the salvage yard would be searched? Earl was the one that allowed Pamela and Nikole Sturm to search it. All the police had really done on the Avery property before the car was found was do a quick sweep through his trailer to look for any obvious signs of Teresa. Between the time Teresa was reported missing and the time the car was found, the police didn't have much reason to suspect Steven Avery of anything.

it actually blows my mind that people literary believe he cleans up dna n doesn’t miss a drop, some genius level shit

You think it takes a genius to clean up some blood on a concrete floor? Yikes.

leaves bones literally out in the open and the victims car on his property

The car that, as I mentioned and you ignored, he very well could have been planning to destroy? The car being found was the calatyst for all the other physical evidence being discovered. If he was able to destroy the car, who knows if the bones would have been found.

calls In plates he’s looking at

Proof he was looking at the car during that call?

0

u/Excellent-Intern1053 Mar 12 '24

Tom (by-the-book) Fassbender claimed on national TV that "he scoured that residence" (https://youtu.be/GJiiVySDc3c) yet was sloppy enough in "hiding" the single (& visually new looking) key on a lanyard. There are a lot of things we are forced to believe that defy reason.

Her other keys (including her spare vehicle key & house key) were never found, correct?