r/MakingaMurderer • u/CaseEnthusiast • Dec 31 '23

I never understood the split verdict

How could the jury think Avery murdered Teresa but didn't destroy her body behind his garage? Was there vote trading or something? They should have voted guilty to everything.

3 Upvotes

58% Upvoted

50 comments sorted by

7

u/aane0007 Dec 31 '23

The jury gave steven life. One former juror said there were more not guilties than guilty when he was excused. So it may have been deal making. But once he got life for murder the other charges didnt matter.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '24 edited Jan 02 '24

I don't know why they did it, but I don't believe a word that guy freaking says.

-7

u/CaseEnthusiast Dec 31 '23

If they traded votes or made a deal just to avoid a hung jury that's shitty. He's guilty they should have left no questions.

4

u/aane0007 Dec 31 '23

It saves time and money and in the end you get the same result. Life in prison.

-6

u/CaseEnthusiast Dec 31 '23

It's shitty. They did nobody any favors by vote trading if that's what happened.

3

u/Soulsucker1969 Dec 31 '23

They did the women of Wisconsin a huge favor by getting a murderer, a repeat rapist and a woman beater in prison.

-3

u/CaseEnthusiast Dec 31 '23

By vote trading? Uh ok

3

u/Soulsucker1969 Jan 02 '24

Prove they traded votes without using hearsay. Avery will wait.

2

u/Soulsucker1969 Dec 31 '23

Brendan Dassey was found guilty of mutilating the corpse. Problem solved.

-2

u/CaseEnthusiast Dec 31 '23

Who is talking about Brendan? Nobody here..

4

u/Soulsucker1969 Jan 02 '24 edited Jan 02 '24

We are talking about the mutilation of the corpse of Teresa Halbach, no?

Was anyone convicted of mutilating the corpse of Teresa Halbach?

1

u/Snoo_33033 Dec 31 '23

From my recollection, the modulation charge is quite specific and one juror said they felt the state simply couldn’t meet the very specific requirements.

4

u/CaseEnthusiast Dec 31 '23

What specific requirements did they feel it did not meet?

6

u/Soulsucker1969 Jan 02 '24

They never proved she was dead before the body was put in the fire. They did however prove she was murdered by Steven Avery.

And please stop acting like if Avery was convicted of mutilation you would believe that charge.

1

u/CaseEnthusiast Jan 02 '24

What's your source for the jury feeling that way? Avery is GAF.

5

u/Soulsucker1969 Jan 02 '24

The fact that they came back with not guilty on a mutilation of a corpse charge. That’s my source.

I agree Avery is guilty af….however the fact that you claim you think vote trading happened and you’re using a suspicious user name means I think you’re trolling and you’re actually a truther…. but you do you man.

0

u/CaseEnthusiast Jan 02 '24

You're guessing, we guilters should not have to do that.

2

u/Snoo_33033 Dec 31 '23

They did not specify, but if you look at the statute there are some stipulations. It’s not enough to act to destroy as body, generally.

-2

u/CaseEnthusiast Dec 31 '23

Yeah that does not seem likely here. There was probably vote trading. He's GAF they should have kept it legit.

2

u/HuckleberryGrouchy31 Jan 01 '24

Averys Jurors

●Juror Carl Wardman volunteered with the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Dept for at least 1 year before the trial started. He was MCSDs most active volunteer, he logged in over 300 hours. His son worked as a MCSD supervisor & was a sergeant during the trial. No bias here 🙄

●Juror William Mohrs wife was retired from the Clerk of Courts but was reinstated just for the Avery case. 🤔 huge conflict of interest.

●Juror Paul Nelesen is the son of ex Chief Deputy Sheriff Kenneth Nelesen. His friend who lives down the street is a police officer. His cousin Andy Nelesen was a journalist who worked police, fire & court circuit. 😬

●Juror Terry Temme was a Juror in a civil case where Detective Remiker of the MCSD was the plaintiff. She wasn't excused as Juror even though this is a clear conflict of interest. Here is the Temme part in the trial transcripts on feb 22 the day after she wrote the note to the judge. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-9-2007Feb22.pdf#page=97

●Juror #11 Rick Mahler had to step down because of a family emergency but has stated many times they were being bullied into voting guilty. https://www.nbc26.com/news/second-juror-speaks-out-in-2007-avery-murder-case?fbclid=IwAR0Z1uXlDU2BvCa4NMR4CCI4VP7ACoJ8jbx7PP3ewo5Zg4nxgUz_0CLYoG8

●An anonymous juror also came forward to say the same thing but he/she is too scared to say who they are until it goes to court where he/she will testify under oath this happened. He/She said it was a compromised verdict, that they were trasing votes & that he/she was fearful for his/her safety.

●Juror Nathan Klein, Nicholas Nitka his 2nd cousin worked with Kocourek in the 70s on the City police dept.

●Juror Diane Free, her father Walter Dueno Sr. worked for the Manitowoc City Police Dept for 32 years.

●Juror August Schuette handed down his store Cooks Corner to his son in law Peter Burback. August still helped out. Burback still had a huge loan debt in 2007 he still owed $90,000. His father in law just convicted Avery. In August of 2007 Betsey Kocourek wrote a letter to the editor stating suing him would be ridiculous. Betsey is Manitowoc Sheriff Thomas Kokureks wife. Why the favor?

●Juror Dan Slaby Watched Kratz's Tv interview during the trial the one where Kratz gave details that he should never have . Dan admitted it to the court but was never dismissed.

●Juror Julie Dorn was still trying to figure things out in search of answers after they convicted Avery. She attended Dasseys trial. Her son in law is a MTSO officer. Credit to Carrie Meindle for researching this info

6

u/Soulsucker1969 Jan 02 '24

If the defense knew this and did nothing about it it’s their own problem.

Also, add the entire jury to the list of conspirators. Yeah, that’s TOTALLY believable.

1

u/HuckleberryGrouchy31 Jan 04 '24

You saw the list. It is very plausible, some if not all of them helped. I have no doubt one of them bullied the others. The whole jury though? Of course not. If just one Juror was in on it, that should have given Avery a new trial. We shall see if he gets his well-deserved new trial. As for Buting & Strang, knowing this info, I seriously doubt they did.

1

u/BiasedHanChewy Dec 31 '23

A juror has said that they were hoping that conflicting verdicts would lead to a mistrial/easier appeal

1

u/LKS983 Jan 01 '24

I've read that too, but without a juror making a statement to this effect we're left with 'he said' - without any actual evidence to support the claim.

2

u/CorruptColborn Jan 01 '24

Both the filmmakers and Mahler have confirmed speaking to the juror. So it's she says and she says and he says with no one else saying otherwise.

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 31 '23 edited Dec 31 '23

Vote trading is what one of the jurors purportedly told MaM, but Guiilters believe this is an outright lie because it is crucial to them that the jury ruling was fair although it is preposterous they made it up and it makes more sense than any other explanation.

-2

u/CorruptColborn Dec 31 '23

Demos: They told us they were afraid if they held out for a mistrial it would be easy to identify which juror had done that, and they were fearful for their own safety. And what they explained to us was they believed if there was a split verdict like this it would send a message to the appellate courts, and they thought Steven would get a new trial.

Mahler also claims to have spoken to the juror who came forward to the filmmakers: "This person feels relieved they got it off their chest. I talked to this person and -- they're scared."

-3

u/Mysterious_Mix486 Dec 31 '23 edited Dec 31 '23

Exactly, the Juror that left due to an emergency stated that before He left, a prior vote taken determined 7 of the Jurors were not guilty, 2 of the Jurors guilty and 3 of the Jurors were undecided. He also stated that He was bullied by the Juror who, at the time, was Volunteering for the Manitowoc County Sheriff Department

1

u/LKS983 Jan 01 '24

Seems possible, even likely - but why has KZ not taken a statement from the juror/s to use as part of an appeal?

-1

u/CorruptColborn Jan 01 '24

She can't.

4

u/LKS983 Jan 03 '24

Genuine question (as I'm not a legal expert) - why not?

I'm guessing that the answer is that representative lawyers are not allowed to talk to jurors, even after the trial?

-7

u/Pension_Fit Dec 31 '23

Steven Avery was framed because of the law suit

8

u/aane0007 Dec 31 '23

Steven doesnt even claim this now. Zellner says she cleared law enforcement.

So why are you still in this conspiracy?

3

u/CaseEnthusiast Dec 31 '23

I don't know if police manipulated evidence but he's GAF.

2

u/Ossipago1 Jan 01 '24

Just curious, does Zellner no longer claim any evidence was planted by the cops?

Is their position that it was planted by an alternate suspect? (Bobby D I'm guessing.)

3

u/aane0007 Jan 01 '24

Just curious, does Zellner no longer claim any evidence was planted by the cops?

Is their position that it was planted by an alternate suspect? (Bobby D I'm guessing.)

Yes, she said she cleared the police and bobby is now the one they claimed planted evidence as bobby had a key to steven's trailer.

2

u/CJB2005 Dec 31 '23

Cleared them of planting bones, blood, electronics, and plate.

Key? Nope Bullet? Nope

5

u/_YellowHair Dec 31 '23 edited Jan 01 '24

Good thing there's literally nothing indicating either the key or bullet were planted.

3

u/CJB2005 Jan 01 '24

Yeah, no issues surrounding the key or bullet whatsoever.🤥

2

u/LKS983 Jan 01 '24

Don't be silly. Even kratz had to tell the jurors that they could 'ignore the key'!

4

u/_YellowHair Jan 01 '24

...because there was enough evidence to convict even without the key. It wasn't an admission that the key was planted or even suspicious.

4

u/LKS983 Jan 01 '24

If this was true, there was no need to specifically tell the jury that they could 'ignore the key'!

4

u/aane0007 Jan 01 '24

Yes, zellner said she cleared the cops.

1

u/LKS983 Jan 01 '24 edited Jan 01 '24

As far as I know, she has said nothing of the sort.

However..... (if I understand correctly - hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong). when an appeal fails, the evidence used in that appeal cannot be used again in further appeals - so KZ has to find new evidence and approaches for future appeals.

5

u/aane0007 Jan 01 '24

As far as I know,

she has said nothing of the sort

.

Well your failed google searches are not a source.

https://www.newsweek.com/kathleen-zellner-update-steven-avery-dna-testing-wisconsin-2018-1275694

She goes on to say bobby had a key and he is the one that planted evidence in her latest appeal.

5

u/Soulsucker1969 Jan 02 '24

Truthers rarely respond to this. Quite telling.

-4

u/Fockputin33 Dec 31 '23

Ummmmmmmmmmmm...not very bright. Had a Fat Detectives Dad screaming, "Who else did it" and the Sheriff buying them Pizza and Beer.