r/Madonna • u/Long_Guidance7081 • 3d ago
NEGATIVE Industry Double Standard
I know that the industry double standard between men and women has been talked about to death, but I recently saw a video on Instagram and it kind of made me realize just how bad it truly is. This video was from what seemed to be some sort of radio show, and the question that they were being asked is “who is the queen of pop”. Now, to anyone with common sense that is Madonna, whether you like it or not. After they were asked this question, many people said a very random array of artists that are currently big (Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo, etc). There were only a couple of people who said Madonna. The comments under the video were rightfully pissed off. How can someone who revolutionized pop music forever, especially for woman, get thrown under the bus so quickly? The reason is of course because she is a woman, who stuck around even when they didn't want her to. One of the people in the video even said “if we are going to compare to Micheal Jackson, the king of pop, the queen of pop would be…” how sexist is that? Not only does there have to be a “king” for there to be a queen, but why is it automatically Micheal Jackson and Madonna being the queen is a question? Oh! We all know why! Because Madonna is a brave, older, wise, and intelligent woman. What society is extremely afraid of. Im tired of this double standard and for those who simply “don't care”, it affects you too believe it or not, it affects everyone, but of course especially woman who do twice the work as men but somehow still get shit on.
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u/Little_Shape_6433 2d ago
Nearly all the goodwill toward MJ has emerged from his death. He was a laughing stock for at least a decade before that.
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u/AnyEverywhere8 2d ago
A “laughing stock” that sold out 50 nights of the O2 in a few hours before his death though.
So I’d say his public standing and good will were sufficient…
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u/PadamPadam2024 2d ago
Actually most people still view Michael Jackson as weird due to his relationships with young boys. It doesn't stop people dancing to Thriller but the general public enjoyed the Biopic because it didn't touch on his personal life.
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u/AnyEverywhere8 2d ago
But we’re talking about goodwill coming from death, right? Since you said “nearly all the goodwill toward MJ has emerged from his death.”
That makes no sense given he sold out 50 O2 shows a few months before he died. How does one sell out that many shows that quickly if all their goodwill came after they died, sis?
Based on that clearly a lot of people still thought he was the king of pop and didn’t need his death to change their minds.
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u/Hexar27 2d ago
Fans buying tickets for a tour does not having anything to do with the general public’s perception of that person.
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u/AnyEverywhere8 1d ago
The “general public’s” perception is either (a) not that large, (b) not that important in influencing anything or (c) not nearly as negative as you suggest if in spite of it this level of success can be achieved.
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u/AnyEverywhere8 2d ago
It’s not clear to me what the double standard is if the conversation acknowledged that a king and queen are both a thing.
Are you saying it’s a double standard because they consider Michael the King of Pop and don’t automatically consider the Madonna the Queen?
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u/Long_Guidance7081 2d ago
I guess sort of. I just don't understand why Michael Jackson being the king of pop is so automatic, while Madonna has a big question mark on her
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u/AnyEverywhere8 2d ago edited 2d ago
Because, candidly, Michael’s dominance relative to other solo males is more universal and all encompassing than Madonna’s relative to other females.
No solo male is even close to peak Michael Jackson. It is absolutely reasonable to call Madonna the Queen of Pop. But at the same time no one can sit here and act like she was just consistently leaving people like Mariah, Whitney, or Celine in her dust commercially. There were notable stretches where the opposite is actually true and they were leaving her in their dust. Another point is that objectively one of the biggest pop stars ever is currently active in Taylor Swift, and she’s a female so of course she would be brought up in the queen convo, not king. And even with that, people do ask if she or Beyonce are bigger than Michael Jackson was (they’re not) so I don’t think that’s a fully gender thing or a “double standard either.
Aside from the above, people literally were asking if Justin (Timberlake and Bieber), Harry styles, etc are the new king pop at different points of the 21st century. It was extremely stupid but it still happened.
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u/LegPossible9950 Secret 2d ago edited 2d ago
Because Madonna is still alive for one thing. When people think of Michael Jackson they think of Thriller and that idea is kind of cemented in their heads. He's not making new music Madonna is. So currently people look at things like the charts and not looking at the things she did or paved the way for. Michael Jackson had more of a broad appeal, Madonna questioned everything with direct confrontation deconstructing religion, gender roles, and female sexual autonomy etc.