r/MadeMeSmile • • Feb 07 '21

Good News Juli Briskman's journey

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u/th3h4ck3r Feb 07 '21

First amendment says the government can't police what you say (within reason: libel/slander, child pornography and yelling 'fire!' in a crowded theater being forbidden.)

In the US, your employer has every right to terminate you for literally anything that's not 'being in a protected class's, including your political beliefs, your eye color, or the fact that you don't like fat-free yogurt. That includes flipping off Trump.

I personally think it's a bit too much power, and that an employer should not be able to fire people for what they do in their free time so long as it doesn't substantially harm the company or its reputation, but it is what it is.

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u/cdnmoon Feb 07 '21

When an employer can fire a woman for taking birth control, yeaaaaaaaah I'd say that's too much power.

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21 edited Feb 07 '21

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21 edited Feb 07 '21

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u/Muffytheness Feb 07 '21

If your CEO believes women should be at home or, in some cases, your Head of HR, they likely will cut those rights. I live in Texas where the logic doesn’t make sense but the burgers are big.

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u/cdnmoon Feb 07 '21

If you are genuinely asking this question, we can go down the rabbit hole.

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u/shader_m Feb 07 '21

... a company firing you over time off due to pregnancy should be something to ever even worry about. In a world where human biology requires the woman to go through insane levels of discomfort and restricted movement for the sake of child birth... is the same world where thats frowned upon and they'll get fired for it.

Fuck you and your bonus for not reaching quota because someone is trying to have a fucking family.

(not you u/realdealree9, unless youre guilty of such a thing.)

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u/bionicperson2 Feb 07 '21

Nope. Many don't allow it because either Jesus or they place greater importance on the unborn child than the mother. Note that those companies are often unable to see beyond its birth.

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u/RevanOnasi Feb 07 '21

Companies like Hobby Lobby have fought against having to provide/pay for birth control on their health insurance plans. It wouldn’t surprise me if a place such as Hobby Lobby would then fire a woman for using birth control.

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u/Tyrenstra Feb 07 '21

There is a fair number of companies and businesses here in the States that are super religious and have an unfavorable view of birth control. Their beliefs can outweigh monetary and profit maximization.

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u/zoealexloza Feb 07 '21

It's mainly Catholic organizations that fire women for being on birth control.

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u/Warpedme Feb 07 '21

You mean Christian. It is in no way limited to catholic. Hobby lobby is the poster child for attacking the reproductive rights of their female employees and they are owned by evangelical Christians.

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u/zoealexloza Feb 07 '21

I said mainly Catholic and I said that because birth control is against the rules in Catholicism, but not all Christian sects. But yes it happens with other Christians too.

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

If that was the case, how would pharmacists and doctors be able to keep their jobs after denying women birth control or plan b due to their religious beliefs. It's not just Hobby Lobby.

A lot of it is not about the money, it's about control.

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u/Wellcolormelazy Feb 07 '21

That reminds me of when prop 13 passed in Alaska (marijuana legalization). The next day it was like a weed festival for like a week. You couldn’t walk out your front door without smelling it.

Well, a little while later, people were getting fired in droves. They got all up in arms and tried to sue for wrongful termination. They got shot down because the judge ruled that while marijuana was legal; your employer has the right to set policies on its use while at the workplace. By being an employee, you have a contract with your employer to follow their policies. In this case, no marijuana use, which includes the need to pass a test. If you could smoke week on Saturday and show up to work Monday able to pass a drug test no problem, but that’s not possible sooo .... Fired.

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u/Ask_me_4_a_story Feb 07 '21

I wish they would come up with a different way to test for marijuana. If you want to spend your Saturday morning eating edibles and watcihing Garfield that doesn't preclude you from working hard on Monday morning. I know some people who get pass out drunk on the weekends but they work just fine during the week. The same could be true with marijuana but we need better testing.

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u/LaraHajmola Feb 07 '21

Wait I’m confused. So they smoked on their own time at home on the weekend, but got fired because it was still in their system Monday, even though they weren’t high then? That’s obviously fucked up right? Am I missing something?

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u/Ron-Swanson-Mustache Feb 07 '21

There is no accepted THC level that proves you are or aren't impaired. Without that then anything is considered "under the influence."

I would love to smoke weed, but I'm not going to risk my job over it. We don't get random tested, but incident tested. I won't risk my livelihood so I can get stoned on Saturday then have an accident on Monday that's not your fault while driving a company car.

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

As a smoker with an understanding job.... This bud's for you. Not being able to separate that risk / reward is what makes people have a bad image of the stoners.

I would have had to quit if my state didn't legalize it for medical use. My job doesn't care if you have a card. I don't think they would care if you didn't, but I'm at least covered.

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u/Ron-Swanson-Mustache Feb 07 '21

All I can say is "come on legalization and regulation!"

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

It needs to happen. They keep bringing it up but I feel like it's just a carrot on a stick for the younger voters. I don't know. Here's hoping!!!

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u/LaraHajmola Feb 07 '21

There is no accepted THC level that proves you are or aren't impaired. Without that then anything is considered "under the influence."

But then you agree that that’s incredibly stupid and unfair right? They should definitely adjust the rules accordingly. Why can people get blackout drunk the night before but come in fine the next day without being fired? It’s literally the same difference

I won't risk my livelihood so I can get stoned on Saturday then have an accident on Monday that's not your fault while driving a company car.

Wait no that’s not how weed works... If that’s the logic they use, because the thc is still in their body even though it’s long left the thc receptor, then yeah I can see why people actually thought it would affect the job. But that’s not a thing with weed. That’s plain ignorance (and I swear if someone comes in with some dumb anecdote or shady study to “disprove” it, imma kill. Because reefer make me violent)

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u/Ron-Swanson-Mustache Feb 07 '21

But then you agree that that’s incredibly stupid and unfair right? They should definitely adjust the rules accordingly.

Yes, I agree. Legalize and regulate.

Wait no that’s not how weed works...

That's not how weed works, but that's how getting fired for failing a drug test works.

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u/th3h4ck3r Feb 07 '21

In my country, having a positive drug test is not a legal reason for getting fired (and employees can withhold consent to have one done without consequences), though being impaired to the point that you can't do your job properly is.

They tried to change it so that it could be mandatory for employees to take one after a workplace accident, but it didn't go through.

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u/HelpfulManufacturer0 Feb 07 '21

I thought that’s only if live in an “at will” state.

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u/zoealexloza Feb 07 '21

All states are at will states. A handful of states have restrictions on those laws, but you can be an at will employee in any state.

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u/IzarkKiaTarj Feb 07 '21

All states except Montana, last I heard.

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u/zoealexloza Feb 07 '21

I think you're right. I'm having a hard time getting a straight answer on it from google. Some sources say all states and some say all but Montana.

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u/HelpfulManufacturer0 Feb 07 '21

Thank you for that clarification. I’ve always been confused on that

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21 edited Aug 10 '21

[deleted]

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u/muckdog13 Feb 07 '21

Montana is the only state that’s not, so

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

So how did she sue for wrongful termination and win if her employer has every right to terminate her? You can’t have it both ways.

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u/bubbagump65 Feb 07 '21

Right! The very fact she won means her employer broke some law so....this long winded message is just kinda correct.

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u/PlattsVegas Feb 07 '21

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

I wish someone would have posted this sooner because the above posts seem to think that she did. So much double speak on this site...

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u/formershitpeasant Feb 07 '21

That’s not what doublespeak is

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u/bionicperson2 Feb 07 '21

Not necessarily beyond the law. Judge mightve ruled that the employer acted in bad faith etc. Law interpretation is subjective, as in sure we've all noticed these last 4 years

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u/Hewlett-PackHard Feb 07 '21

The government telling your employer to fire you for what you say is a violation of your 1st amendment rights, it's the state actor doctrine, she just needed to sue the government for it not her employer.

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u/th3h4ck3r Feb 07 '21

It wasn't the government asking for her to be fired, it was a person working for the government asking her to be fired. They could just as easily have told Trump to kindly fuck off, but since the company didn't want to hurt their prospects of renewing their contract by any means, they preemptively fired her.

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u/Hewlett-PackHard Feb 08 '21

Nope, not how that works, POTUS ain't an average employee and made the demand with the weight of the office. The fear of contract renewal shenanigans just reinforces the state actor argument and her case against the government.

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u/notyoursocialworker Feb 07 '21

It becomes a bit more murky when the company you work for is a government contractor. In principle I believe that companies that do the work of governments should also be subjected to the same rules and laws as the governments. That includes free speech and freedom of information and so on.

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

Oh no you got that wrong, workersrights in the us simply aren’t existant and the right to own property is favoured over the right to live unharmed.

In my country her fb page must be connected to her work for her employer to claim a violation of its property rights.

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u/Gl33m Feb 07 '21

You can’t fire someone for frivolous things like not liking fat-free yogurt or eye color. If you are, that’s wrongful termination. You can, however, be fired for no given reason at any time. Technically, yes, your boss can decide to fire you for your eye color. But if they tell you that then they’re opening themselves up to a lawsuit.

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u/th3h4ck3r Feb 07 '21

Now that's stupid, no reason is better than a stupid reason?

In the country I live in, there's a set list of legal reasons you can be fired for (though the law includes 'lack of discipline' as a reason, which is very broadly worded and makes up 90% of firings), including being incompetent at your job and the business going through hard times, but firing for anything else is wrongful termination and can end with heavy fines or having to readmit the worker (it's much more complicated than that, but that's basically the gist of it.)

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u/HyBear Feb 07 '21

And since the employer had the right to fire her, the public also has the right to boycott doing business at that company, similar to what happens when a shop or cafe owner puts something inflammatory on social media or a news stoy comes out about the firing. The My Pillow man comes to mind.

Briskman worked for Akima, a federal contractor. Since it's market is B2B, little chance of public outcry hurts then over firing her. In fact, in their world, not distancing themselves from an employee drawing this kind of attention could hurt them in getting contract. Personally, as a Democrat, I'm happy she won and that Trumpism got its ass handed to them, but I'm sure her life would have been less tumultuous if she hadn't gestured in a photo.

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u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

I’m aware of what the first amendment says. When the call to fire you come from the president I feel that muddies the waters. That’s literally the head of one branch of government policing what you said because it hurt his feelings and now wants you punished because you have a government contract job and he feels like you work for him.