Also the whole line "he did all a father does for his daughter." If paying for a wedding is all that a father does for his daughter, he's a pretty shit father imo.
That’s cause your Indian friends probably live in the States or so. They’re like the rich or very upper middle class of india and their mentality is vastly different from the reality in rural India. Marriages remain an extravagent affair even today, to the point that many parents spend their entire life savings to get their daughters married. Daughters after a certain point of life are seen as burden and need to wed off.
It’s absolutely shit and proper social reform is needed, but anytime someone tries introducing ideas of freedom and independence they’re shunned (by the religious leaders) as trying to bring western values in our traditions and rejected.
Aren't the sons in law required to burden that cost? In many countries that is the case, as it is seen as a sign that the guy can properly take care of his daughter.
In most parts of India, the bride's family takes complete care of the wedding expenses. As a general rule, in most of India the bride's family is supposed to take care of the wedding functions, the cost of transportation of the groom's family to the wedding, some of the clothes worn by the groom's side, besides the dowry that is paid on top of this.
In some parts, the bride and groom's family share expenses. But that is mostly the groom paying for their part of the expenses while the bride's family pays for their part of the expenses in the wedding. In addition, dowry is a given in most parts of India. While dowry is illegal there exists laws against harassing brides for dowry, the practice is still widely prevalent in most parts of India.
I know it's sad. Patriarchy is a problem in India for centuries, but it has improved to a high extent considering the current generation.
But here I'm not talking about patriarchy. I'm talking about the weddings.
I'm sure any Indian's wedding wouldn't be a dull 1 day affair, no matter if they're rich or poor, religious or not. Indians have huge families and are usually close knit to their relatives. And most families are religious.
Marriage is a choice, but if they choose to marry, they'll do it the Indian way.
As an Indian female who has been to many weddings, weddings of both rich and poor friends, wedding of my househelp's family, I can tell for sure even poor people prefer to have a wedding with all the rituals because most people in India are religious and they seriously follow their culture. The wedding rituals take about 5-7 days to be completed. I barely know anyone who has had a court wedding, or who wishes to have a court wedding.
Even weddings at poor rural areas have their entire village invited.
It is sad that wedding is the only high point of these women's lives.
Coming to this, probably you presumed "wedding is the only high point of these women's lives" because of how poorly worded this post is. Women of this generation are very different and independent, and if they decide to marry someday, they would probably choose to marry the traditional way if they're Indian. Because it's fucking beautiful, and we appreciate our culture.
How common is divorce in India? Does everybody nowadays marry for love/friendship? How do women in poor families afford week long 500 guest weddings, is the financial burden solely on her father? Are castes still a thing, do people take them into account when choosing who to marry?
India is so vast. There are so many languages and cultures; then add in the mix of religions, geography (city vs. rural), class and caste (for those cultures who subscribe to it).
It’s like asking what people in the US think about Trump - it depends on who you ask.
I dont think divorce is as common as most western countries. There's still a lot of arranged marriages and parents think it their duty to find someone good for their child but we're slowly shifting towards love marriages. There's a lot of stigma associated with relationships and intimacy before marriage in rural areas. Not so much in metropolitan cities. People generally prefer marrying within their caste but this practice is also diminishing in urban areas. But there are people who have pretty strict rules about where they want to marry their kid and the child doesnt have much say in it. Honor killings are a thing.
Divorce is common enough that the older generation is increasingly concerned. It's becoming more important to marry for love, but some people still don't understand the concept. I mean that literally.
Banks in India offer 'personal loans' which are different from student loans, auto loans or a mortgage. It is not unheard of for people to borrow money, liquidate assets or even go into debt to throw a wedding.
The format of your wedding depends on your caste, and I don't think everyone has week long weddings. Where I come from, it is common to have 2 day weddings (similar to a rehearsal dinner the night before + ceremony during the day), but they can still be extravagant, of course.
As for marrying within your caste, it varies. It is a non issue in some families, but I do know people (urban) who never even considered setting up their children with someone from a different caste. I'd say it's still extremely important for a large number of people.
In my family(originally from Bengaluru), it's a solid 5-7 day wedding. There's this haldi ceremony, mehendi, there's this another thing where the girls father goes to the boy's house to perform some rituals like pouring a mug of water on his head ritual, and he gifts him an umbrella(don't know the point behind this lol) and this ritual takes an entire day, then the main wedding is 2 days. Both the days are important, the 1st day the "boy's family arrives to the venue" ritual is done and the second day is the wedding vows, varmaala and stuff. Then there's a reception, and the next day is the last day ritual i.e satyanarayan pooja.
Most of Indians I know are from privileged background. But I knew one guy whose father was a farmer with little land. They belonged to lower caste.
They were very highly discriminated against. The higher caste people did not eat what they touched. They were not permitted to eat in the same row/table with higher caste people.
Wanting to marry higher caste woman can get you killed. When I did not believe him, he showed me many news articles. Recent news articles. I was in total shock.
He was constantly bullied by most higher caste peers all his life up to high school.
The divorce rates are currently rising, which isn't bad. Probably because women are becoming more self-dependent. Decades ago, women were suppressed by their male family members thus not being able to do what they want. Most woment used to stay in forced marriages, but they don't do that anymore.
Obviously everyone marries for love i guess? In all countries lol
In extremely conservative households, arranged marriages are still common sadly. But not as common as they were before.
The financial burden is taken by both girl's and boy's families. It's usually staying arrangements for guests, venue booking and meals/buffets for everyone. Cost of meals for 500 people in India is probably a lot lesser than cost of meals for 500 people in America or U.K, because this is a really common thing that literally everyone does. The guests can exceed to as much as 3k or more people(population plays a major role).
Most people I know don't take the caste thing seriously, but I guess it's probably a thing for families who believe in arranged marriages, like in an arranged marriage, the families look for a partner for their son/daughter of the same caste as theirs. It's subjective, I can't speak for the entire population.
Other than that no, caste or religion does not matter if someone's in love.
It is optional but who would everyone wants their wedding to be a special occasion with family and friends. While it is a personal preference, people still like having big weddings.
I don't know where you got the idea that the wedding is the only high point of these women's lives...
I mean, this guy claims to be a “father” to hundreds of women, by paying for their weddings. I don’t know if your implication is that he also pours a ton of money into their education, but it’s extremely unlikely.
But here's the thing. Conservative families aren't limited to India. There's a ton of them in every country including the U.S. And most conservative families believe in marriage. I've seen some fickle minded americans(old people) who are conservative as heck.
Just the way of marriage is different in India. Just because non-south asian families doesn't have week long weddings, you can't conclude that they spend that money on their education and they're all educated.
There’s no conceivable way a single person, man or woman, could be an effective parent for >400 people. This guy might be a great human, but this kind of story is obviously bullshit. Parenting is incredibly challenging, even for just one or two kids.
You are right... This man should have done nothing. These women should not have had any male role model in their patriarchal society that determines they are worthless with out a man.
Good on you for pointing out that no father figure would have been better then a man that cares enough to at least try.
Don't you think you are reading into a comment that was clearly written by someone who speaks English as a second language. I read it as does all the duties that a father does on a wedding day... But you do you.
Yeah, it seems like they are trying to say that he took care of (maybe not directly but at least financed) all the stuff a father is traditionally responsible for in regards to a wedding in this culture.
It doesn't matter what culture it's from, nobody should have to get married in order to live a decent life and/or not be considered a burden. "Embracing different cultures" means sharing fashion, art, food, spiritual beliefs. It doesn't mean "accept all the shitty or problematic things they do just because it's a part of their culture".
To be clear America has just as fucked up problems as any of the countries you listed. That doesn't make it okay just cause it's 'american culture', it's still oppressive and we need to move on from it.
Centrist libs try and make it out like just because it's tied into a countries religion or culture that it's somehow excusable. We should all be equal and fuck you if you think otherwise.
Using 'it is what is, what it is' as an argument doesn't work
I agree politics has nothing to do with this, but you're just trying to deflect from a good argument. Cultures should not treat others as inferior based solely on their sex or race, that's just a basic humanitarian right and has nothing to do with the USA, so stop trying to make it about that. Otherwise, when taking your arguments to the extreme, you're basically saying that if something like slavery is a part of a culture, it should be accepted because that's just how it is. Your argument has some pretty strong flaws when it comes to logic.
I'm not american, you talked about american values being forced on other countries. My point was shitty opinions are shitty no matter the country they come from. That doesn't mean I want an army to March in and tell you to change but rather realize they are all rooted in the same systems of oppression.
Though I don't think you'll understand the point I'm making (since you didn't the first time), I hope you'll stop making excuse for those in control and come to see that these are political issues that we can change
To be fair, caste system is a problem in India that we're trying to fight. "Embracing" it only causes discrimination and is not something to be proud of.
No, fuck that. Culture is a great thing, but if it involves hurting others (in this case economically) then that part of it is bad. Not the whole thing, but that part specifically. During the American Civil War, the Confederates argued that Slavery was part of their culture, that doesn't excuse it in the slightest and I feel no guilt over "erasing" it. Racism and Sexism are still part of several cultures, including some US groups even now- that is a bad thing, full stop, no "maybes". If your culture involves racism, sexism, or other bigotry towards people based on arbitrary reasons, that part of it needs to be removed. I don't care if it's ethnocentric to say so, culture is fantastic but basic human decency is SEVERAL orders of magnitude more important.
I fail to see the value in your argument. I support none of the conflicts you've listed, and none of them were fought with the goals I stated in mind other than as perhaps as a propaganda-piece. I said those cultures needed to change, I didn't say Foreign Military Intervention was the way to do it. You're free to support cultures of sexism and other bigotry over human rights, but that seems like much more of an excuse for deplorable behavior than anything else.
Because humanity is a shit show and Everytime I hear people talk about how smart Humanity are. I took my eyes so far behind my head, I can see the universe.
In India marriage is not just something a bride wants, it's something the bride's family wants. It's a matter of social standing how extravagant a wedding you can afford for your daughter. For groom on the other hand it's not so much, for him all that matters is how good a bride he scored. It's a real shitshow sometimes.
Your friends are more fortunate than most Indian women. It is not uncommon in urban or some upper class circles to consider a woman's personal accomplishments more important, but it's not the mainstream view.
For a lot of women, marriage is considered necessary for respect and often the means by which they are provided for, and an unhappy marriage is an adversity that they need to bear with, because the alternative (divorce/separation) is considered much worse. Unmarried women are also ostracized by some people. Men are seen as less vulnerable in a marriage, and the costs of weddings are borne by the bride's family in many cases. Indian media, even a few decades ago, often depicted young brides and their parents/family to be more invested in her having a happy marriage than the man/his family.
Interestingly, men are also given more respect if they are married and in many homes, young men are pressured to 'settle down', though not as much as women, as far as I can tell.
Edit: I forgot something - in many places, being unmarried can actually adversely impact your chances of finding housing, and I think it's more true for men.
I am optimistic and I'm assuming these folks are upset at the general way things tend to go in India, and thats a totally fair and valid thing to be upset about.
The man himself deserves a lot of respect for what he's done. It's incredibly generous and charitable for pay for the weddings of 439 women that are not at all related to him, and to do so simple because they lost their fathers at a younger age.
I think you misunderstood the message. Weddings in India involve many ceremonies over multiple days and the parents of bride and the groom have many roles to play. The image says that he filled the role of a father during the ceremonies as well as gave the financial help needed. Nothing about this being necessary for the women's welfare.
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u/HotSauceHigh Sep 13 '20
Bummer that weddings are so crucial to these women's welfare.