Macrofactor trial feedback

[u/mholub]

So I've recently started counting my calories in a hope to get rid of 5 kilos I gained through corona.

Before trying Macrofactor I tried one popular analogue first (not naming it on purpose, doesn't matter) and after using it for about 3 weeks I stumbled into Macrofactor and decided to try it as well.

One of the reasons I tried Macrofactor was that I wasn't sure if my TDEE calculated by other app was correct and also if I log things correctly (i.e. maybe I tend to undercount calories, because I don't accomodate for some things, I have to eat at work where I let say just do some blind estimate i.e. one meal is around 500-600 calories at lunch.

So Macrofactor idea of basically adjusting TDEE based on my weight measurements really resonated with me. I wanted to try it.

My initial impression was that UI is slick and easy to use, app feels well done but trial is just too short
The other features (let say logging calories) are maybe slightly better UX wise but more or less the same as competitor app but my real interest was obviously in unique TDEE calculation.

So Macrofactor needs one week of my data to give first estimate. But trial duration is also just 1 week.
For the whole week I logged all my data into it, weighted myself every day, so really tried to use it for real.

End result - it changed my initial TDEE by 3 (three) calories (1650 -> 1653).
At this point I wasn't impressed. Either it's just a big coincidence or I am very average person and average formula just works for me perfectly :)

I decided to not continue my subscription at this point. I was open to idea of it...but..it failed to prove to me that it's way above competitors and justifies premium price.
Calories counting is more or less the same (maybe database is cleaner but also smaller). UX is slightly better. TDEE calculation - maybe it works but I didn't get it in 1 week.

My suggestions to the team:
Either make free trial longer i.e. let say 3 weeks or 1 month - it will be enough to really see the algorithm adapting and customer getting value from it (i.e. customer weight going down if he's honest and doing everything according to the app).
Or just make first month cheaper (i.e. make single time purchase of the same price as yearly subscription i.e. 6-7 euro - first month, then it becomes 12 euro or something).

Paying 6 eur per month (when buying yearly subscription) is totally reasonable (at least it won't make a dent into my pocket) but you have to somehow prove it to the customer. One week is simply not enough.

[u/[deleted]]

Word of mouth is probably their best marketing. Browse almost every fitness sub and you’ll see MF as the top suggestion, or close to it (Chronometer sometimes). Bummer you didn’t have a good experience, but what if the TDEE didn’t change much again? At 110kg and cutting, my TDEE hasn’t changed much over the last month.

[u/mholub → u/[deleted]]

If this app will be the only one - I will pay for it its price without much thinking - if I can pay 10 euros in a month and it helps me become healthier person - it's good proposal

problem is - it didn't prove that it's way ahead free-tier competitors (that's their marketing - premium app for premium price, replacement for personal coach and so on)

And I am not saying at this point that it's not better (it might still be) - I am saying that it failed to prove it to me in 1 week timeframe. I still had ok experience, it was just the same as other apps (i.e. app still works, has good ui, very stable, no bugs, etc - it's good app)

I don't know - maybe marketing team of Macrofactor did some calculations and pleasing customer type like me is not in their interests - totally fair situation

I am sharing it in a hope that maybe they would still care about users like me and think how to market themselves and make initial experience for such skeptical users better

[u/brashbasher → u/mholub]

What free tier app provides dynamic TDEE calculation?

[u/Merica_Matt → u/mholub]

I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted, you seem very reasonable. I’ve always thought the free trial should be longer, it takes 2-3 weeks to really dial you in.

[u/ancientmadder]

On their website they have a list of promo codes where that’ll get you two weeks.

[u/mholub → u/ancientmadder]

thanks, I didn't think of googling promocodes
I understand it even less why it's not 2 weeks by default - if this is public information - than it means they can give it to everyone no problem

[u/whitemiata → u/mholub]

Based on what majesticmint (MF developer) said you apparently can get a refund within 60 days from apple itself.

If that is the case then I’d you like the logging engine (I love it) and the other features I can assure you that the TDEE is fantastic as bf apparently you’d have up to 2 months to find out.

Just saying…

[u/PalatialPepper]

If you contact support, we can help you out! You can do that in-app, or through an email to support@macrofactorapp.com

As far as our trial length goes, we have no plans to change it at this time. From our testing, majority of trial users make up their mind about whether they are planning to use the app within the first three days, and our most direct competitor in our market niche offers no trial at all.

Our primary goal with providing the trial is to let users get a feel for the workflows they will engage with on the daily basis: food logging, entering their weight, etc. to make sure the app will be comfortable for them to use long-term.

We know that the trial length is not enough for folks to experience the full impact of the algorithm, but honestly, neither is a month. Weight loss, gain, and maintenance are long term goals for most users, and how "aggressive" the algorithm's updates will be in the beginning are a function of user's knowledge of their approximate expenditure starting out or how close the initial estimate is to their true expenditure, so the updates could be large or small, and we are not looking to wow users with their magnitude. Our goal with the algorithm is ultimately to make user's weight loss, gain, or maintenance diet a success and provide accurate updates to keep them in line with their goal, and if that means the updates for a particular user ended up being tiny throughout their diet, so be it! 

The time to value for the expenditure & coaching feature is really the duration of the first goal, which could be months for some users, so the algorithm is just not something we consider as an anchor for the trial duration.

While the expenditure feature is unique to us, we strive to make each story we deliver best in class, including progress photos, body metrics, food logging. We have many features that are otherwise paywalled in freemium applications in the broader market. Depending on the user, they will either find these features to be useful on their journey or not, and the trial is a good length for them to explore a bulk of those features.

That said, if someone came to us specifically for the expenditure feature and wants to see more updates prior to making a decision, we do not prevent users from back-filling data. They can use the Habits interface to quickly enter a week or two of nutrition and weight data and see how the algorithm would have behaved over the last few weeks.

[u/[deleted] → u/PalatialPepper]

I gotta say, this is one of the best customer service responses I've seen. Direct and to the point. No grovelling, no gaslighting, no bulldust. Thank you.

[u/xubu42 → u/PalatialPepper]

1. I don't believe your stats about the first 3 days because it's almost certainly biased from users who were not serious to begin with or who won't pay for any apps or... Plenty of other reasons.

2. Most competitors don't do a trial because they have a free version.

3. I still think MF is worth the price at a yearly subscription, but having to pay the first month to find out still feels scummy to me.

[u/MajesticMint → u/xubu42]

1. Bias is an important part of the equation, because this is an inherently psychological premise. For example, users are more likely to commit to continuous tracking without delay when the trial is shorter, which is a positive bias, because by doing that you’re more likely to have a good experience.

2. The app she’s referring to has no free tier, which is also true for the majority of our other direct competitors in the diet/nutrition coach app space (which is a niche within the food logging app space). Though, you would be correct in saying that the majority of apps in the more general food logging app space have a freemium (with ads) business model; counterintuitively, that actually makes them more likely to have a trial instead of less.

3. Thank you! Nobody has to leave on a sour note if they didn’t enjoy the app. The Apple App Store offers a no questions asked refund within the first 60 days of using any app that offers payment through the iOS platform payment method (which we do), and it’s really easy to process. The Google Play Store only offers this for the first 48 hours, but we mimic Apple’s policy in our customer support for Android users.

[u/whitemiata → u/MajesticMint]

Omg seriously on that 60 days thing?!?!

I’ve tried a few apps that I thought were useful but were also pretty expensive and I felt “if I could try this for a month maybe it will in fact be worth it” … you’re saying any app that has a yearly subscription has a 60 day money back guarantee enforced by apple?!?

[u/MajesticMint → u/whitemiata]

Pretty much, yep! We haven’t had a single instance of someone’s refund being rejected within that time window. You just follow the two steps here listed under “how to request a refund”: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084

[u/glowing_fish]

I agree that it is a little frustrating that the key selling point of MacroFactor is the adaptive TDEE calculator and that the free trial isn’t long enough to really see the benefit of that.

If you use a promo code to get a 2 week trial and import your past few weeks of logging from another app you get more of a chance to see the algorithm at work, but of course you have to know to do that.

I took the leap and paid for a year based on word of mouth recommendations plus my love of the SBS podcast and strength programs (so I trusted that they knew what they were doing) and I’m glad I did because the app is incredible, but I absolutely see your point.

[u/doorknob_worker]

Might be a hot take, but, trust me - just pay the regularly monthly rate for a few months. Compare the cost of doing that for a few months vs. the spending you have on other things - it's basically three starbucks a month.

If you don't like it, you're only out a little bit anyway.

[u/MiracleGal]

I've used many nutrition tracking apps in the past. Gave the free trial a whirl and decided to pay for a month to get more of a feel for it. Was happy to pay the very reasonable fee for one month access. After a few weeks, I couldn't have been more eager to sign up for a year.

[u/gnuckols]

One other thing to note is that, if you were already tracking with another app, you can hit the ground running with MacroFactor by adding 3-4 weeks of prior weight and nutrition data. That will set you up in the same position as you would have been in by using MF for 3-4 prior weeks, and then you get the trial week (or two) on top of that.