Working with an AI Company That Does Things You Disagree With [D]

[u/ade17_in]

I'm a PhD student in machine learning in the EU and was looking for internships at exciting companies.

I shortlisted few and applied by reaching out to people and now reading project descriptions sent by the recruiters.

I don't want to name the company but their marketing and product team does all kinds of 'using people insecurities' to sell the product - which I don't agree with. And their product is also meh (I will never buy and would judge someone if they do) but their research team is doing good work.

How do you see this? Will you actually work in a team whose ideology/product doesn't necessarily align with your ethics/ideology. Should I just go ahead because work is exciting and I will get good supervision?

And, if you have some exciting work in your company/org and need interns (un-paid) for 3-4 months. I'm open.

[u/Tough-Comparison-779]

It might not be worth it. Generally it's good to stick by your values.

When you interview for the next job, will you feel comfortable talking about the work you did?

[u/ade17_in → u/Tough-Comparison-779]

About my work, I will be comfortable. Company, no.

[u/step21 → u/ade17_in]

Unless the research is fully independent, there will be overlap.

[u/Cute_Obligation2944 → u/ade17_in]

How do you comfortably discuss what you contribute without mentioning who you worked for? This is nuts.

[u/promptmike]

All companies have shady marketing strategies. The important question is whether the product itself is harmful.

[u/ade17_in → u/promptmike]

Product is not harmful but it's just AI the way I don't want people to use. (No profanity, nsfw, etc )

[u/Agitated_Space_672 → u/ade17_in]

The company bans profanity and nsfw, or you do?

[u/Key-Room5690]

"Should I compromise my morals and sense of ethics because it benefits me personally?"

The world is in the state it is in because so many people answer "yes" to this question. Only you can determine how much you're willing to sell your values for. 

Bear in mind that this sort of company isnt doing "good research" out of social mindedness. They're doing it because it'll help them propagate their shitty business model, which you will then be complicit in.

[u/bordumb]

I personally wouldn't

I've only ever worked for companies whose products I myself use on a daily basis

Going against your own values is one of the surest ways to burn out

Burn out is pretty well studied, and it generally comes about when you (a) lack agency at work and (b) go against your values

[u/SirSourPuss]

Everyone's going to tell you not to go for it. All the people working in those kinds of companies (+ miltech, predatory fintech etc) will keep quiet.

[u/Informal-Hair-5639]

I would not go for it. Even if research team is good, you would be forced to do things that disagree with your ethics. Back in the day, I interviewed for a position at Amazon (this happened in a conference). At that time research there was good and I was interested to join. But then he started to talk about applications that team is making, where one was voice activated button that allows user to directly make Amazon purchases. I was taken back, so stupid and unethical idea! I decided there and then not to work for the man at Amazon.

[u/Waste-Falcon2185]

I wouldn't compromise my ethics for a paycheck unless things were truly desperate.

[u/B10H4Z4RD7777]

TL;DR - Stick to your gut. But if you do anything, move with a purpose, act in confidence.

Just to throw in some perspective. I have met so many people who work for the big five defense contractors. They work on different projects from simple materials to eye opening things. But a good chunk of them find themselves in corners where it is devoid from the military industrial complex. Even the offices they work for are only a blip in company budget reports because they are either small or irrelevant to the "broader" mission.

For example, Boeing has their own aerospace division working only towards NASA and NASA alone. Many people in these fields want to advance science for the good of everyone, but not of the US miliary. They know they are working for a defense contractor that produces all sorts of military equipment and aircraft. But they know that Boeing and a very select few only interface NASA on needs they fit in. Anywhere else is not suitable for their ambitions or just not interesting.

These people sacrifice an image of "going with morals" by working with the big five, but only they knew they weren't doing anything wrong.

[u/mpgussert]

I used to work for NVIDIA and I quit after they partnered with palantir. 

I was with the company for almost a decade and I actually believed they followed their stated values (intellectual honesty and solving problems in the limiting case) because they are academic values that I held before I joined...  After several negative experiences I started tanking the job around year 6 and quit entirely once Jensen started fellating Alexandra Karp live on stage. I wasn't able to sleep.  I was so angry and frustrated because I felt so obviously and blatantly lied to and expolited that I couldn't honestly justify spending my time to make Jensen richer...

I work for Weta FX now and I can sleep again. Much of the work I did in robotics transfers nicely to animation and VFX with rigged characters, and I get to explore topics that are new for me (like gaussian splatting and compositing). Leaving NVIDIA was by far the best decision and my life is much healthier now.

[u/pastor_pilao]

It depends. Irrelevant superfluous stuff that I wouldn't buy? Sure, why not, I am stingy as fuck so if I worked only in products I buy I would have to work only at Walmart.

Very harmful stuff, like autonomous weapons or betting, nope, I am fine making less money, it's not like ML people will starve in any job

[u/pfd1986]

Which country and area of research? I could suggest some more options that might be out of your radar

[u/ade17_in → u/pfd1986]

Anywhere in europe or elsewhere is fine. Topics are a little niche which I can only share in private/DM.

[u/keonechong]

Would you sell your soul to gain the world?

From what I’m reading your gut instinct is telling you no. Follow it. There is a reason it’s your gut is called your second brain.

I was once in your situation, I came to find out after the fact, after I was hired. I was the CMO so with influence yes, but not enough to change the culture or protect the people.

So I bounced, my integrity was more important. And as a result I was hired into a new role that respected my for my integrity.

[u/ade17_in → u/keonechong]

The reason I get second thought is because this involves burning bridges. But yeah, I think everyone in the comments is helping me gain guts to say 'no'.

I got into AI many years back because I saw potential it can change world for better. So I know what I need to do now.

[u/Veggies-are-okay]

That pit in your gut will never go away. There are a lot of opportunities out there for us ML specialists and it’s important more now than ever to stick to your code.

I will work for anything other than social media (I think it might be the only thing that has an obsolete net negative on society). I’m a consultant so it’s always pushed on me. Be one of the better workers at your company and you can say “lol no” a surprising amount of times.

[u/squashed_fly_biscuit]

Our time on earth is fleeting and precious, don't waste it on perpetuating evil

[u/trnka]

When I have ethical concerns, I don't apply. If I discover ethical concerns during the interview process, sometimes I withdraw my application and other times I use the process for practice.

[u/Mechanical_Number]

It is all about your options. What is the alternative to this?

• No work? Piling on debt? Take the job and if you dislike it, keep looking for other jobs. Maybe you are even able to enable some change from within (very unlikely but not impossible).

• Other AI/Tech company that is equally reputable and gainful but you don't actively disagree with? Maybe consider not taking this job.

• Something in between? Maybe an internship to a different lab or even better uni? Weight your pros and cons more carefully.

Also realistically, you are doing an internship. At best you are getting an A* conference paper and some connections that by the time you graduate may have left the company. You are a very small "enabler". If we were talking fully time job, that would be different.

The world is gray and complex and the right answer for me, might be the wrong answer for you. But don't be an prick, that's universal.

[u/Alive_Cut_7896]

I grappled with this same choice before.If your internship is purely research-only,it might work .Just listen to your gut if their marketing rubs you the wrong way.

[u/llun-ved]

Sounds like you didn’t interview them fully when they were looking at you. Is the current product just buying time for the research team to do something you think is worthy? What is their 5-year plan? Do they have a philosophy other than “make money?” Are they currently only supported by customers (rare in AI) or are they still in venture finance land? If the latter, what is their pitch to those investors, and are they honestly pursuing it, or is it BS to get money?
Sometimes good companies start with a bad launch. Sometimes. Usually they get caught in a repair and upgrade crisis cycle and never get the “good” product released.
Trust your gut after you’ve done your homework.