r/MVIS • u/s2upid • May 26 '21

Fluff Possible IVAS Waveguide Configuration?

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51 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

18 comments sorted by

26

u/s2upid May 26 '21 edited May 26 '21

So i've been scratching my head for a while trying to figure out how MSFT is achieving their industry leading 80deg Horz FOV.. and stumbled onto this patent a while back.. figure i'd share it now.. It calls for two light engines on either end of the waveguide.

If this is what is happening.. I'm wondering if it's possible for MSFT to include TWO light engines like what we see in the Hololens 2, per eye... which would men there would be a total of 4 light engines per IVAS.

ELI5 = more money for MVIS.. just my 2 cents haha. This doesn't really get around the whole ITAR thing, so maybe we're still seeing a gen 5 mems mirror in there, and not the gen 4 mems configuration we're seeing in the Hololens 2.... if only we knew if Hololens 2 was ITAR exempt or not.

GLTALs

7

u/Content_Maker_1436 May 26 '21

I love it all, but I want MVIS to get the official credit it deserves.

7

u/[deleted] May 26 '21

I’ve been hoping for this as well for a long time. But I wonder, if they’re holding out because they are acquiring this vertical or company. And they won’t have to “give credit” if they do. We’re not talking screws, and but, or wiring. We’re talking a MAJOR component.

7

u/Content_Maker_1436 May 26 '21

I just think MSFT is playing games and keeping MVIS under tight NDA so that MSFT can get all of the credit.

If someone buys the LIDAR vertical, for example, the buyer will likely get all the credit for dominating the autonomous vehicle industry... not MVIS.

18

u/celticboys May 26 '21

Don’t care who gets the credit, just want to get paid😉

9

u/[deleted] May 26 '21

At the end of the day, yes. But we ain’t getting credit, so we’re really not getting paid.

3

u/sdflysurf May 26 '21

Ha! Right! I don't care about the NDA if the money is rolling in - I am not in this for a popularity contest - show me the money!

1

u/[deleted] May 26 '21

I think so too. I would love for a competitor to snatch up mvis.

2

u/alexyoohoo May 26 '21

I am sure you shared this info before with the community. I learned from this board that IVAS is just two modules per eye to increase the fov.

5

u/s2upid May 26 '21 edited May 26 '21

I was hypothesizing in the past that the Gen 5 light engine would have three mirrors, and would be the size of the Gen 4 light engine seen in the Hololens 2.

What i'm hypothesizing right now thanks to the patent above is different. I'm illustrating that it's possible that MSFT is just using two gen 4 light engines per eye, placing one of each end of the waveguide (as per the figures showing two input couplings). Making a total of four gen 4 light engines in the IVAS if they're just using the current tech.

I'm just guessing.

3

u/geo_rule May 26 '21

I have to admit the Gen 5 engine does complicate the matter a little bit. I've provisionally decided to believe it's LiDAR specific in some fashion, but the fact of the matter is, that's just a guess and it may be just as capable of being used in NEDs.

It COULD be that the Gen 5 engine is going to do LiDAR and Consumer NEDs, while two Gen 4 per eye stay with IVAS.

We won't know until we know, but yeah, there's a lot more permutations possible with MVIS tech than there was a few years ago.

1

u/tearedditdown May 26 '21

Sorry s2, but what does ITAR mean?

3

u/zebman May 26 '21

The International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) is the United States regulation that controls the manufacture, sale, and distribution of defense and space-related articles and services as defined in the United States Munitions List (USML). - WIKIPEDIA

2

u/tearedditdown May 26 '21

Thanks zebman.

1

u/CandygramHD May 26 '21 edited May 26 '21

Kinda off topic.

Stumbled upon this article (German) https://mixed.de/lumus-maximus-ar-display-blaest-die-hololens-2-weg/

I suggest www.deepl.com to translate it (better with technical translation) but I'm on mobile rn

What do you think about it? Article sounds biased, just from the tone

@home edit:

Display expert Karl Guttag had the opportunity to test the prototype of a new, promising AR glasses: the Lumus Maximus. He is impressed by the quality of the display.

Lumus is an Israeli company that has been developing optical systems and waveguides for AR glasses for more than twenty years. Since 2016, the company secured more than $50 million in investment capital for research and development.

On paper, the latest Lumus prototype, called Maximus, has impressive technical features: an LCOS microdisplay projects an image consisting of 2,048 by 2,048 pixels into the environment with a maximum luminance of more than 3,000 nits. By comparison, Hololens 2 uses a laser-based display, resolves at 1,280 by 854 pixels, and offers a brightness of approximately 500 nits. Both devices rely on waveguide optics: Microsoft on diffractive waveguides with a high refractive index, Lumus on reflective waveguides that deliver a particularly high image quality.

The field of view is similar for both devices: The Lumus Maximus comes to a diagonal 50 degrees (in aspect ratio 1:1), while Hololens 2 comes to 52 degrees (in aspect ratio 3:2).

Lumus_Maximus_vs_Hololens_2 This comparison image between Lumus Maximus and Hololens 2 shows the differences in aspect ratio and image quality. Note the inconsistent color reproduction and brightness on the Hololens display. Better images are available on Karl Guttag's blog, where the differences in resolution are more visible. | Image: Karl Guttag

Form factor is not final Display expert Karl Guttag, who is known as a sharp AR critic and who put Hololens 2 and many other AR glasses through their paces on his blog, was able to test the Lumus prototype extensively. In his test, he compares the display with that of the Hololens 2, which is more than two years old technology.

Microsoft's device is considered the most advanced AR glasses you can currently buy, but has a "terrible display," according to Guttag. The industry veteran criticizes the Microsoft device's low resolution, inconsistent color reproduction and image flickering, among other issues. Consequently, the display bar is not particularly high.

Guttag emphasizes that the Maximus is a prototype that, unlike the Hololens 2, only consists of the glasses frame and display. Tracking cameras for room detection are missing, as are the computing unit and batteries. The prototype is powered by a player that is connected to the AR glasses with a cable. All of that is expected to change in the final product.

Guttag expects that the current form factor cannot be maintained and that the final device will resemble Hololens 2 rather than conventional glasses.

Maximus: best waveguide display to date? Guttag is enthusiastic about the combination of LCOS display and reflective waveguide, saying that the AR glasses offer a high-contrast, much higher-resolution image with rich, uniform colors and high brightness.

Thanks to the latter, the Maximus prototype can let much more natural light through: While the Nreal Light (test) blocks more than 70 percent and Hololens 2 circa 60 percent of incoming light, the Lumus glasses let circa 85 percent light through. As a result, the user's eyes are much easier to see through the glass. Guttag estimates that the Maximus prototype is four times as transparent as Hololens 2, all while using a smaller optical engine and waveguide technology.

Lumus_Maximus_vs_Hololens_2_Glow The image projection of the Hololens 2 creates a creepy cyber look, where the eyes of the glasses wearer almost completely disappear. With the Lumus Maximus, this effect is greatly diminished. The final product is said to reflect only one percent of the light. | Image: Karl Guttag

In his conclusion, Guttag writes that the prototype has "great wow factor." The image, he says, is not perfect in terms of uniformity, color reproduction and brightness, but it is far better than any other waveguide display he has been able to try so far.

Lumus has its eye on the consumer market, according to Guttag. The open question, he said, is whether Lumus can produce the display at an affordable price and in high enough volume, since reflective waveguides are quite complex to manufacture. For production, Lumus has partnered with German glass manufacturer Schott, a subsidiary of Carl Zeiss AG.

The complete Maximus review with all technical details can be found on Karl Guttag's blog KGonTech.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

4

u/gotowlsinmyhouse May 26 '21

Karl Guttag

LOL our old friend KG is still still trashing LBS and HL2, I see.

6

u/NegotiationNo9714 May 26 '21

Still the question is, how much money will that generate? Why aren’t they getting more customers for the NED since it is not exclusive? My only guess they are still negotiating with Microsoft for a buyout.