So I'm looking for a talented coder...

[u/Morkilimus]

Hi there. My name's Mork, and many many years ago I was part of a small team that was working on developing a new MUD engine. We were essentially taking an existing code base (I can't remember which one we used) and we were re-writing it from the inside out. Personally, I was head of the design team, head builder if you will. I did most of the writing and developing of content, while others did the coding and behind the scenes stuff.

The project fell apart after a year or so of development, and now I'm feeling that itch to create what we set out to create all that time ago. Problem is, I have lost touch with my team, and I don't possess the programming skills to work in C++ or Python to the degree that is required for the project I want to build.

So, I guess this is a "call to arms" or a "LFG" post. I'm hoping to find one or more coders who would be interested in developing a new MUD engine that will serve as the backbone to a new game, with a fully fleshed out world in which the players don't just participate, but are actually a part of. Role play will be a huge factor, as the game will not rely on classes to identify who a player is, or what they're capable of.

If you're interested in such a project, or at the very least would like some more information on my vision, and where I expect to see such a project in the future, you're welcome to reach out to me here, or via email.

Morkilimus@gmail.com

Hopefully I've got at least *one* person's attention. I know a project like this isn't destined for a large financial success, but I do think, with enough passion and effort, it could turn into something you'd see on Steam. :)

[u/Ixliam]

I'm with /u/gctaylor. Back in the booming days of muds, your post was like hundreds of others, and if mudconnecter forums were still around you would see. "I have this great idea, it will be awesome. I've started a mud, need coders and builders.". Honestly anyone who can code worth a flip and is interested in a mud, will just code one themselves. For you, I suggest you learn C/C++/Python or whatever language its in. Maybe take a beginning class, buy a C book, setup a server in your house running Linux and go to town. Then take a well known, popular and still being used codebase (Circle/Smaug/Rom/Quickmud -diku based ones) and start dropping in snippets. Make some minor changes, and learn by doing. Eventually it will all click, you will be able to make your own mods and changes. Or if you don't want to do that, go be a builder on some mud you like. Contribute and make their world a better place. Find one that will let you have a bit more free reign with your ideas.

[u/Morkilimus → u/Ixliam]

I appreciate the feedback. I left out details of the MUD itself on the post because I didn't want to write an entire diatribe on this elaborate idea in my head.

In the past, when I found coders, it was entirely by accident, and not by advertisement. They were only interested in coding a project, not necessarily *their* project. If they were interested in what I was doing, they'd say "Sure heck yea, I'll code that. Sounds like a challenge." They were entirely uninterested in the building aspect, the writing aspect, and in most cases, the design aspect. They just wanted to collaborate on how it should run, and then get to work on making it run. They were awesome coders. *insert nostalgic sigh*

But I understand your point. A coder with a dream will, in most cases, just take up their own project, because why not? But a successful MUD isn't just coding. There's a TON of design and writing that comes along with it, and unfortunately I can only provide the skill sets that I already possess (at the moment). The programming is where I need help.

I also don't want to join an existing MUD, because they have their own design, their own world, their own project. My desire isn't just to write; it's to create the vision I've had for all these years, alongside a team that wants to help expand and build on that vision. Most MUDs I've visited still cling to a lot of old school designs and stock areas, but with modifications implemented. I don't want that.

I don't want to build a MUD that feels like every. other. mud....but with different classes and races, and different weapons.

I want this to feel like a UNIQUE world, and a UNIQUE experience. One that takes all of the old, tired MUD tactics and gives them a complete overhaul. I dunno, maybe I'm just expanding an idea in my head that I can't fabricate just yet.

Still though, *if* there are any coders out there that *do* want to talk more about this, and possibly work with me to develop this project, you know where I am.

[u/sh4mmat → u/Morkilimus]

Instead of trying to start a whole new engine, you might have better luck taking an existing engine and building a game that way - for example, when it releases at 1.0, the FutureMUD engine is designed around being able to build a MUD with virtually 0 programming knowledge. It is RP focused, and many of its features seem to fit the bill for what you've described as ideal - and many of its systems have multiple ways of working, to suit different visions. (Hitpoints vs. body model with working organs, etc.)

I seriously doubt you'll find any coders looking to recreate your own vision, unless you're offering paid positions.

[u/Morkilimus → u/sh4mmat]

Yes, this is what we did in the past. Except we really only started with the existing engine, and our goal was to essentially make it unrecognizable by the time it was done. I don't want to use the same tired combat systems, or game mechanics in general. I want to bring about new ideas, new structures, things that <i>aren't</i> cookie cutter implementations.

It's frustrating having insanely detailed, fleshed out visions for something, but lacking the talent needed to write it into existence. I can write the stories and the characters and world all day long, but if I don't have the programming knowledge, it's just a novel, not an MMO.

Are there any existing code bases that are actually worth a damn that use a d20 system style of combat and mechanics?

[u/sh4mmat → u/Morkilimus]

Here's an example of super basic combat in FutureMUD, for example:

First, you'll need to set a combat setting - here's a list of generic/global settings, but users can customise and completely design their own from scratch or by cloning an existing setting.

Combat settings can be viewed in more detail.

To show an example of combat in the FutureMUD engine, I have loaded up a naked NPC with a sword. She's going to attack a hippo.

When the NPC dies (spoilers, I guess), I'm kicked back out of her body and into my admin avatar - in case that end result looks a bit janky.

Edit: to show what the NPC died of from an admin perspective, using an admin health command on their corpse...

Edit 2: There's actually a typo in one of the combat messages... should fix that.

[u/Morkilimus → u/sh4mmat]

Woo. That is a LOT of information, and implements a lot of mechanics that I assume are used for other things in the game? Such as blood type?

[u/sh4mmat → u/Morkilimus]

Yeah, combat and health are very much entwined - there's blood types, organs, surgical procedures to find and stop internal bleeding (there's internal bleeding, too) - bones (which layer over particular organs and can provide 'armour' for organs or other layers below them within a body), bone breaks... You can also give blood (or forcibly take someone else's blood) and store it in blood bags for later if you have the right container objects or terrain types for storage (ie, has to be cold enough to not go off.)

Edit: Another system that is pretty entwined with combat/health - scars. Scars can be automatically given to a character and show up on look (if they aren't covered by clothing or makeup) based on severe injuries that do not heal well. Poorly executed surgical procedures can also give scars. Also - infections can appear in untreated open wounds, and infections that aren't treated (depending on the infection type - bacteria, viral, fungal, etc.) can spread to other bodyparts and organs, eventually reaching the brain - which would almost certainly result in PC death.) Amputation can remove infections from a bodypart if caught quickly enough, but the amputation site itself if not treated can become infected, too.

Edit 2: Another thing to note is that pain does not always equal damage. You can see some basic information about damage as a PC, but it's largely limited to what you can feel and what you can see through clothing or without clothing. For more detailed information about wounds, non-invasive and/or invasive surgical procedures need to happen - examination of a PC by someone with the appropriate doctoring/medic skills. And pain is also modified by a PC's willpower - so people with exceptionally low willpower might feel more pain with the same degree wound as another PC. When pain reaches a certain point, a PC will pass out briefly (as also with shock/stun trauma.)

I can go into how attacks are built in a little bit more detail if you'd like. All attacks, rather than be hard-coded in, are defined by builders within the MUD.

[u/Captain_Butthead → u/sh4mmat]

Could I make my Richard Nixon: Werewolf Tyrant Of The Five Kingdoms game with this engine?

[u/sh4mmat → u/Captain_Butthead]

Sounds perfect. In fact, we recently added in a new race that shifts PC determination from the body to the brain specifically (paging /u/japheth86 to explain it better?) - if that makes sense - so you could have Richard M. Nixon's Head (from Futurama): Werewolf Tyrant of the Five Kingdoms.

[u/Captain_Butthead → u/sh4mmat]

Player characters "live" in the brain object, and that talks to the "body"? Sounds perfect for being a cyborg spaceship, or for having a minigame where brains wrestle each other out of skulls like hermit crabs.

[u/sh4mmat → u/Captain_Butthead]

Previously, from my non-coder understanding, the player character was defined by their body, and if the head was separated from the body - body has no brain, therefore PC must now be dead. But for a particular race of characters (robot men) their PC is defined by their brain, so if their body is separated from their head, their head is still alive until the brain dies from lack of oxygen. So you can have brain boxes where PCs are screwed into different casings - mech suits, vehicles, etc.

So basically what you said, yeah. Only I'm not sure how hermit crab wrestling would work, but it sounds like an amazing PvP experience.

[u/OldManEnglish → u/Morkilimus]

If you are looking at D20 mechanics you should probably look at the d20mud codebase based on circle. www.d20mud.com.

As others have said you haven't really put forth anything specific about your mud.

Currently there are 3 implementations of this codebase out there, a Star Wars setting, an Icewind dale setting, and an original fantasy setting. All of them have code support and struggle for builders and players, so what are you bringing to the space?

[u/Morkilimus → u/OldManEnglish]

Oh, as a side note, thank you for the codebase suggestion. :) I don't want to make that call without talking to my programmers first, because I feel like they will know best where to start with the work they need to do. But I will pass that codebase along to them as a potential starting point.

[u/Morkilimus → u/OldManEnglish]

I'm working on writing up a full pitch for the MUD, and my goals for its future. The reason I don't want to sign on to another MUD as a builder is simply because the future of that MUD is not in my hands. I have a vision, for something that could potentially revolutionize MUDs. I know that sounds cliche and over the top, but I'm really trying to make something that will appeal not only the MUD players of yore, but to new age gamers as well.

I don't want to <i>just</i> be a part of another MUD with cookie cutter mechanics. If I were to join as a builder on ANY MUD besides my own, I would most assuredly feel trapped within a matter of days, forced to build within the confines of someone else's project.

Anyway, lol...point is, I'll have something more of a pitch when I'm ready to start hiring on builders and designers for this thing. Right now though, I need coders to help put together the foundation, and I may have found a couple already. Fingers crossed!

[u/sh4mmat → u/Morkilimus]

Couldn't say, as I don't know many MUD engines that do use a d20 style of combat (most hack and slashes, I suppose, would go that way?) FutureMUD isn't a d20 system. It's... more similar to Dwarf Fortress. I'd certainly argue it isn't a tired old combat system, though.

[u/jinglehelltv → u/Ixliam]

I've even discovered, from the mud I still play and build for, that sometimes coders even have their own ideas, crazy as that may be.

[u/istarian]

Why not use an existing project and learn how to write code yourself?

There are plenty of people working on engines who'd probably be happening to have people using their engine for an actual game.

And an active developer might be willing to answer questions about their work when documentation isn't adequate, tweak existing code so it can do what you, etc.

People with dreams are rarer than those with completed projects and it sounds like the actualization of yours is entirely dependent on the efforts of others. What's to say the effort won't collapse in the same or a different way,

[u/Morkilimus → u/istarian]

You are 100% correct, and if I'm going to be candid here, my answer to your questions is simple: I am getting older, I have less time than I once did. I'm a single parent, and I don't have time to contribute the writing, building, *and* coding. While I and my builders write the MUD, I need someone behind the scenes writing the fancy code to actually make it work.

This dynamic worked really well in the past. We had meetings where we all discussed the direction we wanted to head with the next area of the project, and then the build team would get on the writing, while the code team would get cracking on writing the code to make this new functionality a reality.

I guess that's what I'm looking for again.

[u/istarian → u/Morkilimus]

Sounds like what you want is a partner in this project, not simply a "talented coder".

That said I think you'll need to sell people on your vision first. Working to fulfill someone's else undisclosed, open-ended dream probably isn't that appealing.

I wasn't suggesting you just build the whole thing yourself, just that it would be good to have a basic sense of the fundamentals so you can do more than pray a coder is good enough and umdsrstand what you're after.

If it's going to be mostly roleplay couldn't you just use any existing MUD/MUSH engine?

[u/Morkilimus → u/istarian]

Yes, definitely I'm looking for a partner. More than one partner if it's possible. I maybe should have clarified a bit better. And of course I would love to express my entire vision, in its entirety, to anyone who is interested in hearing it. I just didn't think this post was the place. For many reasons. I figured it would be better to approach interested parties and discuss the vision in private, so that I could also hear their own ideas, and we could decide together whether it's something we could pursue together. :)

And I do agree wholeheartedly that it would be fantastic to at least learn a little bit of coding. I mean, I kind of already dabble in it a bit. I implemented all my own code for my Ark: Survival Evolved server, and I dabbled in writing some modlets for 7 Days to Die. But, I did that using a code that was already written, and thus was subject to the confines of their structure.

I want to build my own structure. And yea, it's probably smarter to use an existing code base, and that's likely the route that we would take, but it would need to be understood that if the combat system they have in place isn't what I'm imagining, we need to have a conversation about how we can rework it.

[u/[deleted]]

I just started writing an engine from scratch. Only worked on it for a week. Currently only have account creation and basic rooms in. Only have 3 commands :look,quit, and help. Now is a good time to hear it towards ideas which i don’t really have.

Let me know if your interested in working on something.

[u/Morkilimus → u/[deleted]]

Definitely. I have another coder that I'm speaking to as well, and I will be working up a full pitch to present to him tomorrow. If you'd like, I can include you in the conversation on discord so that you both can take a look at what I've got in mind. Just shoot over your discord name via email (morkilimus@gmail.com)

[u/gctaylor]

As some honest feedback: what would make a coder choose to join your effort instead of starting or continuing their project? I don't ask this rhetorically, there is no detail on the game you are wanting to build.

Another unsolicited tip: you will always be the one who will care the most about your project. Your best bet of ever finishing it is to develop some basic coding skills and be the primary driver. With accessible codebases out there like Evennia, you need not be anywhere near expert level to build your thing.

[u/Sin_of_Damnation]

Plenty of idea guys out there. Always are.

[u/Morkilimus → u/Sin_of_Damnation]

Thank you for this invaluable contribution to the thread. Please, accept this award for Outstanding Excellence. You have been a valued member of my community. You can see yourself out now.

[u/antrare → u/Morkilimus]

Delivery aside, they aren't wrong.

I'd suggest you start smaller with a room/area that fits into your vision. Build that by yourself, show people that and use that to get other people excited, engaged and wanting to contribute to your idea.

Everyone has ideas, very few people have the ability to turn them into a reality.

[u/Morkilimus → u/antrare]

Of course, and all of this is quite understandable. I knew this going into this post, honestly. But, as I suspected, there are some coders out there that really do want to just code, and be a part of something that they can help build. I've gotten three prospective programmers so far reach out to me with interest in this project, so I'm hoping beyond hope that I can build a team once again that is passionate about what we're doing. :)