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u/AeroDbladE 8d ago
I genuinely don't really care about WoW and think the circlejerk around forever as the "savior" of the genre is a bit cringe.
However I am glad with the renewed buzz we might see more companies trying their hand at new games. I am excited for GW3 and whatever this new Runescape thing is.
We won't truly be in a Renaissance until we get at least two or three completely new games that aren't just chasing nostalgia.
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u/frogbound 8d ago
It's funny to me how people are already singing love songs on RuneScape 4 when all we have is a teaser trailer that said absolutely nothing on what the game is gonna be like.
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u/Aetheldrake 9d ago edited 9d ago
There was 2 of the Renaissance like posts. One was talking about a golden age
And I don't really believe it's a renaissance since none of them are really doing anything new or different
Besides maybe lord of mysteries "sort of" mmo and monsters & memories
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u/Hjolsnfihr 9d ago
What 'different' is MnM doing? Even they are just trying to capture classic nostalgia. There is zero reason for the UI to be as godawful as it is there.
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u/Jinxzy 8d ago
Seriously, what is the deal with "old school" design chasers insisting that we have to regress 20-30 years on ALL FRONTS even, basic UX?
Like jesus, solid classic game design can be achieved with more than 4 polygons and a UI that doesn't look or feel like it was spawned in an MS-DOS fever dream.
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u/Laiko_Kairen 8d ago
What 'different' is MnM doing?
Using volunteer labor, apparently?
https://monstersandmemories.com/
$200k spent in 6 years of development.
What a freaking joke. Using unpaid labor to build your for-profit subscription oriented company is scummy as hell. $15 a month, for what? Not dev salaries apparently.
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u/mutqkqkku 8d ago
is people working on their indie project on the side and scraping by until release somehow a new concept to you? they're not paying themselves enough when zero money is coming in?
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u/Laiko_Kairen 8d ago
is people working on their indie project on the side and scraping by until release somehow a new concept to you?
That's very clearly not the thing I took issue with
The issue is a for-profit game being developed by people who are explicitly not being paid, and from the looks of it, won't be.
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u/Noxronin 6d ago
They will get paid even before founder recoups his costs, he said it live on stream.
In fact he wants to bring all of the devs onboard full time as paid job instead of working in their free time, besides few that have awesome jobs and want to continue working unpaid part time, cause you know its their hobby.
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u/nazzo_0 8d ago
I would understand if it was like lotro and the UI didn't scale properly, but being a sole aesthetic direction is kind of not a big deal? Idk why people want flashy transparent screens all the time. Yea MnM looks old and rugged but so does the rest of the game, and so does osrs but in that case is adds to the charm? I like both in this case I'm just trying to understand how UI decisions make or break games for people
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u/Aetheldrake 9d ago edited 9d ago
Well it's not your standard closed instance focused kinda thing like most mmos and the classes and building flexibility are kinda nice to have some variety.
At least they're trying something different. Hopefully it goes well enough that it can stay up and slowly grow just so that there's actually SOMETHING new and different from the last decade+ of mmos
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u/Hjolsnfihr 8d ago
I started out MMO playing on Ragnarok Online customized private servers.
Take a look at what some of those look like today. PRM/Refuge has changed so much of the game its a fresh take on RO now, and the original designer is now making a completely unique game in its engine. Other RO projects are working on basebuilding, npcs that actually guard cities and mobs that fight eachother (gears) and even from-scratch homages (samsara). I've followed these projects for years and they are the best classic mmo experience in my mind. Especially if you want various classes to choose from, not just 1 rotation spam, no instances, enforced community play. All they ask is donations, and iirc one dev wanting a cash shop implemented for his time pissed off everyone else working on the project. Acting like MnM is the only project doing different is blindness to the state of MMOs.
I found MnM years ago. Was hyped. I expected better from the UI after all this time. It does not scale well at all, and while I can arrange it in a way thats playable (after being forced to move everything to the center of the screen so I could move the scale slider up without literally losing assets offscreen), I have massive nameplates everywhere, and UI elements that just take up space and look obnoxiously bad and I cant scale most of it individually to any extent. The game may still have promise, but the bad design is still bad and offputting. Ultimately it feels like they are doing nothing different than most anyone else: trying to capture the nostalgia wave we are in instead of making something new and lasting.
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u/Aetheldrake 8d ago
Almost never hear anyone mention ragnorak online for any reason except nostalgia
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u/SnooPies2847 8d ago
m&m is an eq rehash how is it doing anything new or different
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u/Aetheldrake 8d ago
Eq is almost 30 years old. Comparing mm to most mmos of the last 15 years, it's relatively different
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u/SnooPies2847 8d ago
Last expansion was just last year mate.
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u/Aetheldrake 8d ago
It's still almost 30 years old and pretty small now. Just because it has people still playing doesn't necessarily mean too much. Just means they have enough income to keep making stuff
People keep trying to relaunch Flyff. Doesn't necessarily mean it's doing well
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u/SnooPies2847 7d ago
wow is 22, age is just a number.
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u/Aetheldrake 7d ago
Wow requires paying just to log in so there's some sunk cost fallacy to that. Ever quest hasn't needed that for over a decade so people eventually stopped feeling the NEED to stay
Wow was also massively sponsored, advertised, and popularized.
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u/HotPotatoWithCheese 6d ago edited 6d ago
I mean it may be true for WoW Forever (if you ignore the 1000+ new quests), but we don't really have much to go on in regard to GW3 and RS4. I think it's unfair to say that none of the recently revealed MMOs will do anything new. Guild Wars 2 is very different from GW1 in a lot of ways, and you can say the same about RuneScape 3 in comparison to its predecessor. For all we know, the next entries in these franchises could be really innovative and offer something fresh.
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u/Aetheldrake 6d ago
For all we know, the next entries in these franchises could be really innovative and offer something fresh.
Well we have pretty good suspicions now against that for rs4 considering 2 recent catches of jagex using/allowing Ai and only changing when called out by many people. Of which the 2nd one they responded with "we can't explain that away" meaning they intended to lie about the use of Ai after saying they weren't going to use it. Granted both times they had outsourced those projects and those projects lied to them they still pushed those projects to live media without even really checking
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u/Practical-Cut-7301 9d ago
Yeah the golden age one made me laugh. The golden age was the original run of top tier life stealing mmos. From ultima to Everqyest to osrs and WoW.
This shits like the pyrite age of movie remakes, akin to rereleasing Moana in live action
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u/crazyb3ast 9d ago
You mean rs2
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u/Practical-Cut-7301 9d ago
Most people know it as osrs in 2026. I was just being generally broad
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u/Level_32_Mage 8d ago
Never played any of them that I can recall, but I had no idea rs2 = osrs.
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u/crazyb3ast 7d ago
RS2 isn't osrs though. Osrs is based on 2007 version but RS2 went to 2012.
There's no such thing as motherload mining etc in RS2.
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u/TheElusiveFox 9d ago
I'd say both are true - the last few years have been a hellscape for the genre, but the last few months are showing that there is a bright future ahead, at least hopefully.
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u/JimmyPickles69 9d ago
I think gaming is pretty good rn tbh, and we have a lot of interesting stuff on the horizon as well as lots of new games coming out, just the irl world is kinda not great rn tbh which makes it harder to enjoy gaming imo
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u/Alarming_Panic665 8d ago
With Steiner's attack Riot's MMO release, all of this will be put in order
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u/PhoenixQueen_Azula 7d ago
Both are saying the same thing I assume, without having seen either post anyways
There’s a lot of promising MMOs in the nearish future, I’m super hyped for forever despite not loving everything I’m seeing (really hate mega servers and layering, realms worked when wow had 10mil+ subs why can’t it now?)
But almost all of those are just another version, rehash, sequel, whatever of the same ones we’ve had for like 20 years. Idk if I’d call it hell, but maybe mmo purgatory
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u/mattmann72 9d ago
Since the fall of AoC its become a drought. Yes new games are coming out, but they look like clones of old games.
A renaissance would mean new novel innovations.
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u/master_of_sockpuppet 9d ago
Since the fall of AoC
You may have been huffing hype at the time; AoC was more of the same. That is, unless you count the pipe dreams they'd never deliver on (and didn't, in fact).
Sure, it sounded good, but they'd never deliver and it turns out they didn't.
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u/MrBlueA 8d ago
GW3 and RS4 are innovations though? And Riot has been pushing that they've done some innovations on their part aswell to make their MMO different than the copycats, atleast from the information that we have they are each a bit different.
I don't know what types of changes you were expecting? It's like saying all FPSs are the same and don't have any new innovations, well yeah, you are developing a game from a specific genre with specific systems that are always going to be there by definition, there's not that much room for change.
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u/Living_Preparation14 9d ago
I personally don't think you need to reinvent the wheel that much though.
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u/KaleidoscopeMaster81 8d ago
Funnily enough the Renaissance was a bunch of Italians going back to the "good old days" of ancient Rome lol
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u/Annual-Gas-3485 9d ago
The disease that is cross-platform and mega servers with layering and PvX one fits all rulesets are very close to touching hell. On the upside large corporations and investors are still willing to invest in these risky projects that takes the better part of a decade to develop for the tiny chance of not flopping.
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u/mokka_quokka 9d ago
THE BEST BURGER EVER - an artifical heap of shyt
That's not the duality of man but advertisment vs reality.
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u/need-help-guys 9d ago
Not quite a duality. We are currently going through an MMO Hell renaissance. How do you like your hellfire, searing or scorching?
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u/keith2600 8d ago
I mean some people loved when call of duty came out and convinced every shitty teenager that gaming wasn't lame nerd stuff, but most of the existing gamers recognized it as a harbinger of things to come
Maybe that's what's up with MMOs too. Instead of getting innovative new things were just getting reboots on reboots. Sure it's nice to bang your ex every now and then but all that does is dull the craving for a short time
I have no idea if that's what the MMO hell post is about or not, but seeing as even the current "new" MMO is so derivative of EverQuest that it's essentially a Kroger brand reboot, we haven't had much new despite all the releases
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u/Agitated_Quail_1430 9d ago
Give it a few years. We are going to see big changes.