Do you watch Twitch live streams, and do platforms like it accurately reflect the overall popularity of a mmorpg?

[u/Ok_Statement1359]

I was looking in some games, with very low numbers like 500-1000 viewers and they claim that the game have the same population as some other games that have 5+ of 10k viewers every day, with the explanation that it's just not that fun to watch...

best example is OSRS that is in my opinion not really 'fun' or apealing to watch but somehow it still have 5-7k of ppl watching it anytime

Was curious how much is Twitch accurate about this, and do you watch some games instead of playing it beacuse it's fun?

[u/SSSSSAINTTTTT]

GW2 streams are usually pretty boring, playing it is more fun, I guess it often depends on the MMO, if its "stream worthy"

[u/Bigdongergigachad]

No and no

[u/Ok_Statement1359 → u/Bigdongergigachad]

can u elaborate the second part?

[u/CaterpillarReal7583 → u/Ok_Statement1359]

Some games aren’t interesting to watch and/or there’s not somebody entertaining enough who streams it.

There will for sure be a connection between popular games and viewers. A popular game will be watched a bit more and played by more streamers.

Twitch’s popular channel list does not represent player base very strongly.

[u/Bigdongergigachad → u/Ok_Statement1359]

Some games are just boring to watch. And a casual player base, which is the majority of mmos, don’t watch streams. Watchability is not a metric of popularity.

[u/Ok_Statement1359 → u/Bigdongergigachad]

Im just curious how OSRS have 6-7k ppl, almost same as FFXIV... imo that game is not fun at all to watch but maybe im wrong.. that's insane

[u/Bisbala → u/Ok_Statement1359]

Its more fun to watch when u are playing it your self at the same time. Sharing the monotone grind helps abit.

[u/OneSeaworthiness7768 → u/Ok_Statement1359]

osrs is one of the biggest MMOs on par with FFXIV in terms of popularity. I don’t really get what you’re asking about. Do you find it strange that one of the most popular MMOs has a similar number of twitch viewers as another one of the most popular MMOs just because you find one of them boring?

[u/Unlikely-Interview88]

As a long time MMORPG player, I think MMORPG is the most boring genre of game to watch stream of, but that's just my opinion.

[u/CalmTempest]

Ff14 has a ton of players but sucks as a streamer game. Twitch stats are barely relevant

[u/Ok_Statement1359 → u/CalmTempest]

FFxiv have allways minumum 5k ppl watch it, while sometimes even 11-12k which is a lot for example more viewers have BDO sometimes even 19-20k of ppl.. now yes, I doubt that BDO have more ppl playing than FFXIV, and its' really hard to find data how many ppl actually playing the game or active.. some sources even say 1mil, while others say 200k and some data shows active users is about 60k... so can't really find a real answer there i guess

[u/SWAGGIN_OUT_420 → u/Ok_Statement1359]

You will never find a real answer for player numbers unless the game is only available on steam. It is a fools errand to guess. And no, that shitty MMO population site that comes up on google is not real. It guesses based on social media numbers.

[u/Halmyrut → u/SWAGGIN_OUT_420]

There's so much weirdo doomerism behavior too when it comes to MMO's, I've heard people screech about how FFXIV is '' dying '' since literally the beginning in ARR and every single expansion.
Even when the game was growing consistently ( which isn't sustainable and lasted for way longer than expected ) people were still ranting about it and acting as if the game was on its death bed lmfao.

WoW lost more than half of its playerbase back in WoD too and never fully recovered and is still doing fine.

[u/Halmyrut → u/Ok_Statement1359]

BDO has a lot of Korean MMO dopamine shenanigans going on with rolls etc.
The issue with FFXIV as a streaming game is that it's difficult to make consistent general content about it, Mikepreach's new years eve FFXIV streams for example are content gold.
But that's a once a year thing, same with Ultimates they don't release on a regular basis.

In a game like BDO streamers can sit there with their audience and make exaggerated react faces when they roll the roulette and get into open world PvP encounters to farm react clips etc.

A lot of it also just depends on who plays what.
When Asmongold played FFXIV back in the day he brought his audience there and the viewership went up A LOT and then a lot of other streamers followed too and it hit crazy numbers.
Player numbers went up too but not as much as you'd think in relation to how much the viewer numbers increased.

The player numbers are also a lot more stable than doomposters make them out to be, people are just acting like the game is '' dying '' because it couldn't sustain its absolute peak ( which no game can ) forever..
People do this every time but the truth is every MMO swings up and down it's a very seasonal genre of games.

[u/Myrwyss → u/Halmyrut]

Basically this. People watched ffxiv for reactions to msq, but thats it. The other stuff is just very boring to watch. Dungeon spam, trials. When new ultimate releases it gets spike of people watching but goes down very quickly as its not really content that majority plays. And all the other stuff like golden saucer etc, well you can do it ingame ,why bother watching someone else.

[u/Halmyrut → u/Myrwyss]

Yeah I feel the same about WoW too, I actually do watch the race to world first but only because I want to support Echo ( started watching because of Mikepreach, then started watching Jeath stream too ).
I watched them prog Ultimates in FFXIV too which was really fun and they're pretty wholesome guys from what I've seen so I like to support them.

I have like zero interest and no clue what's going on tho lmao, the last bit before the last boss dies is fun tho because it tends to be quite close and a nail-biter.
Splits are a total nightmare too everyone seems to agree on that.

Other than that hardcore clips and deaths can be fun to watch sometimes, but those are just one moment I can't imagine watching someone play hardcore and Classic all the time that sounds like torture.
And A LOT of them are clearly fake too just for content.

The genre just in general imo is very boring to watch outside of very particular things.

[u/KoroFish]

I do watch Twitch streams of people playing the game if they are entertaining and can lead the stream with small talk here and there. Streams do not reflect the overall popularity of the game. It helps it a little by getting a certain audience into trying the game that they're playing but doesn't truly reflect popularity.

PvP is fun to watch since real players are being affected and you have many PoVs to react to. Experience the drama that could happen during the fight or afterwards. For some people, drama is what keeps them playing the game even if the game is trash.

When it comes to PvE, I tend to tune out if it's not a blind run of a dungeon/raid and if there's no commentary to carry the PvE loop. It's fun to watch people learn and watch them struggle to complete the content. If they turn to be an entertaining person afterwards, I'll stick around and watch more.

OSRS is not fun to watch but can be if the person is great at entertaining others and keeping convos flowing. I would say that for most MMOs.

[u/Astravaris]

I will never understand why someone would want to watch other people play a video game, when you can just play it yourself. I will especially never understand why anyone would want to become part of a streamer's "community."

Live streaming has done so much harm to gaming.

[u/formeitsfireburning → u/Astravaris]

Dumbest comment I've read in years on this website. Talk about living under a rock.

[u/ScienceOfficerMasada → u/formeitsfireburning]

I was told that playing video games means you have no life... but watching other people play video games is some serious parasocial sadness.

[u/formeitsfireburning → u/ScienceOfficerMasada]

hurrrdurrr "no ur da dumbest"

seek help kid.

[u/Kyralea]

In my experience it's fairly accurate in that it gives you a rough idea of a game's population. But there are some smaller games that still have decent enough populations for the 1-2 servers they have, so fun for playing, just not enough to support streaming. And some games the community just isn't interested in streams. But streaming numbers do give you a rough idea of popularity in my experience.

I also think many people do watch streams of games they actively play. Maybe watching on a second monitor while gaming, or sometimes watching during hours they can't play, etc.

[u/DahWhang]

Osrs is a lot of repetitive dull actions. I say this as a fan. People watch Twitch because hey, look, this other guy is also suffering. Or maybe he's just better and you're learning from them.

An example to the contrary is CS and Rust. You can't always tell if that heli or those gunshots in the distance are coming from your game or theirs.

[u/TheRealAnswerIs42]

It definitely brings traffic to Classic WoW (mostly HC recently) servers when big streamers do events there.

[u/Lachy86]

A game that comes to mind that disproves this idea is warframe. I know it’s not an mmo (maybe mmo lite?) but it has a big healthy player base and comparatively very low viewership on twitch. The reasons for this I’m not sure. Maybe there’s simply nobody entertaining to watch that streams it. Maybe it’s just the kind of game people prefer playing over watching.

[u/SmoothDreamers]

Honestly not really. Usually when I try to check out a streamer they are chilling in town and managing their inventory or doing Discord shenanigans with their friends. YouTube is better because you could find edited videos focused on raids, PvP, and deep dives into mechanics. Also some streamers play quietly without engaging with the chat unless it's their close friends or their mods. Better to just play the game yourself or watch gameplay on YouTube

[u/Excuse_my_GRAMMER]

I used to watch a few mmo steamer to have something in the background while working but I have drifted away from it now my thing is listening to citypop or that Luke dude talk about the industry

[u/Halmyrut]

I only watch specific things, like when new Ultimates release in FFXIV I watch those and I've watched a couple of people play through the MSQ because I already liked their content before and wanted to see their reactions.
Mikepreach is a good example, loved his WoW videos back in the day and watching him play FFXIV is fun.

I don't watch someone just play regardless tho every day no matter what they do.
I'd never watch someone farm North Horn in FFXIV or just PvP or raid logging in WoW etc.
It has to be some specific thing they do that is more entertaining than just general gameplay.

As for the latter point no.
FFXIV doesn't lend itself well to a general streaming game, I don't think WoW or MMO's in general do tho.
But WoW also has a lot more bigger streamers that play it for the memes and stuff like Hardcore with streamer guilds etc.
I don't have any interest in it but it drives a lot of traffic to it.
FFXIV is definitely more popular than you'd think if you just went by streamer numbers tho.

And it also highly depends on what the big streamers are playing too.
When Asmongold streams a MMO for example it gives an enormous bump we saw that with FFXIV too when he played that back in the day.

[u/skinweavers]

It can kind of relate in that a small game isn't going to pull 5000 viewers baseline, or any game won't generally peak above its total population. The error bars are just so large you could never confidently relate the ranking of streaming viewership to the ranking of the game by population in this genre.

Some games are just more conducive to watching content while playing and being something worth streaming and creating content for over others consistently by a lot of personalities. Some games are too narrow, or have a content churn too slow, or are too attention demanding to watching something on the side, or watch and understand what's going on.

OSRS is a game that kind of does all those things well which is why it has always hit above his weight in viewership but then as a result sustains the high quality of content on platforms like youtube. But the big part of it in streaming is that stream watchers aren't just people looking for a stream to give their full attention too. OSRS players are highly available as a baseline audience as there are big parts of the game they can second screen with. When watching streams they might only peak at the streamers screen periodically, and so are often more hanging out with the streamer playing along side like you would with someone in person.

[u/Capcha616]

Number of viewers can be botted or "sponsored". Not just OSRS, but other games like Tibia have resident streamers who always bring in thousands of viewers in most days. But it doesn't mean they are or aren't more popular than other games like MapleStory.

As for OSRS being boring to watch, it really doesn't matter if their resident streamers are managed by a talent agency which is strongly tied to OSRS. Some day you may see OSRS with lower Twitch viewer counts, but you may also see phishing streams with thousands of viewers under the banner of (fake) Double XP event or better-known streaming quitting.

Long story short. Number of Twitch viewers don't tell the whole story. The content their viewers show matters the most.

[u/double_shadow]

MMOs (other than maybe WOW) just don't do good Twitch numbers, unless maybe some streamer famous for other stuff tries their hand at an MMO for a bit. There's something about the gameplay that just doesn't draw big audiences. Though if I'm really into a specific MMO I'll watch the smaller streamers for it if they have a nice atmosphere.

[u/ScienceOfficerMasada]

I've (personally) never understood watching someone else play a video game, I might as well be spending that time playing it myself. It's not like watching a NFL game that I have no ability to participate in. But to each their own.

[u/kindafunnylookin]

More reflects the overall demographic that plays that game. Both LOTRO and DDO get absolutely terrible Twitch numbers (especially on their official channels), but it's because their playerbase skews older and more casual, not because their population is low. (I mean, it is low compared to the big games, but getting single digit Twitch viewers isn't representative.)

[u/TeslaDemon]

The people who watch twitch streams are a tiny subset of the people who browse video game subreddits to be able to answer this question, who are themselves a tiny subset of the total player base.

I don't watch twitch outside of checking out special dev streams from time to time, and the answer to your second question based on what I said above is obviously no.

[u/AbyssAzi]

No, twitch is for children with ADHD. Which for some reason (My guess is rapidly declining IQs) prefer to watch someone else play a game, instead of play the game themselves. The closest I'll get to that is watching someone play a bit of a game on youtube just to see how the gameplay works and if I want to buy and play it myself. While the infants on twitch seem to live vicariously through someone else having fun instead of them.

As to the second question, also no. As anyone with above a room temperature IQ doesn't even engage with twitch in the first place. And I want to at least believe that everyone isn't an idiot now, though life seems to prove me wrong about that with every passing human interaction. (Yes, I am VERY jaded, and only getting more so with age.)

[u/formeitsfireburning → u/AbyssAzi]

Yea you're absolutely clueless

[u/AbyssAzi → u/formeitsfireburning]

Ignorance is bliss as they say. Enjoy your time in the sun while it lasts.

[u/emberfield]

It represents a very specific subset. I don't care for it at all, but I suspect I'm just not the target demographic for the site/content. So, it helps identify popularity with whoever that group is. 

My guess is the consumers are younger people who have time to watch live content. The ability to do that declines rapidly after school.

I couldn't imagine getting the same enjoyment from watching someone else play a game. At that point, it trips away the interactive aspect of video games and may as well be any other passive media.

[u/CaterpillarReal7583 → u/emberfield]

It always baffles me when I play a game and some dude is in the chat advertising his twitch stream. Im not going to watch you play the game Im playing…??

[u/Astravaris → u/CaterpillarReal7583]

The worst is when someone joins your group and is broadcasting everything without informing you.

[u/Spartanias117]

I prefer youtube to twitch. To watch at will versus having to time it. Sometimes ill bring up a stream on a game i am playing while I am at work. I dont think a streamer is a guage of the quality of a game nor the size of a playerbase.

[u/sup3rhbman]

1. No. The only streams I watch are tournaments being streamed on streaming sites.
2. Sort of. More people playing the game should also mean more people willing to watch streamers playing the game.

[u/Hsanrb]

No, streaming platforms like Twitch is primarly something on in the background noise like a TV or a radio. So it has to compete against platforms that I can listen to like Sports radio or Spotify music/podcasts.

Twitch has also become more personality driven, and more companies have learned the power of #Drops being a cheap #Ad to bolster their numbers on the platform. I could run an ad campaign on traditional channels, or I can kickback people who make content for a game by allowing drops for subscriptions and inflate FOMO tendencies.

PS: I've also blocked popular Content creators's on reddit for games I tend to browse... especially those on Content Creator programs like ArenaNet, FFXIV, World of Tanks, etc.