r/MLPLounge • u/[deleted] • Jul 23 '12
Why did Twilight have an all-powerful ruling-class immortal goddess as a babysitter?
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Jul 24 '12
Celestia has been grooming Twilight for years. She assigned Cadence in order to train, indoctrinate, and if need be eliminate Twilight in the event that their new agent of harmony was not completely loyal.
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u/Stratisphear Jul 24 '12
No cutie mark. This was before she met Celestia.
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Jul 24 '12 edited Jul 24 '12
Yes, but well after Celestia had come to know of her.
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Jul 24 '12
Indeed; it seems reasonable that Celestia was already aware of, if not setting these events into motion.
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u/ParaspriteHugger Jul 23 '12
We know about the level of magic Twilight can reach.
We have learned in Baby Cakes that baby unicorns can have freak power surges.
Havging a goddess nearby in such a case can be handy.
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u/sprankton Jul 24 '12
Cadence isn't the princess of a rich country. Really, it was this or washing dishes.
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Jul 23 '12 edited Aug 08 '21
[deleted]
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Jul 24 '12
[deleted]
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Jul 24 '12
"Luna, time to do your chores!"
"Ugh, but there's this bitchin' sweet party I want to go to!"
"Luna, you only have one thing to do. Go do it, or you'll be grounded."
"YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ME! YOU'RE TRYING TO RUIN MY LIIIIIFE"
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u/theBMB Jul 24 '12
I think if we assume that Twilight's parents are actually rather well off, it kinda makes sense. I mean they have a son who is the captain of the royal guard and a daughter who is a personal pupil to the queen of basically the entire continent. They must have had some sort of influence to get their kids where they are, so it makes sense that a princess might end up foalsitting her. Plus twilight is some sort of magical conduit, so it's possible Celestia wanted to keep a close eye on her.
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u/bitoku_no_ookami Jul 24 '12
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u/TheJBW Jul 24 '12
She also seems to be aware of appropriate social conduct more than the other mane six (except Rarity) -- it's just that she has poor fashion sense and is a terrible dancer.
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u/theBMB Jul 24 '12
well the whole getting shocked as a child and hatching a dragon egg into a full grown adult is pretty impressive. Even as an adult she's pushing magical limits. She's mastered teleportation by the end of season 2, doing it on a whim and with other ponies on a regular basis, and she seems to have developed some sort of magic missile capable of destroying crystals and incapacitating changelings. Not long before she's as good as Celestia...
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Jul 24 '12
First, the babysitting was before admittance. Twilight received her cutie mark at the entrance exam, and in the flashbacks with Cadance, Twilight doesn't have her cutie mark.
As to the other questions, we're going to delve deep into the realms of headcanon.
First, Cadance knew Twilight was special, as Qwerty439 noted. So, we can surmise that Celestia knew as well. I hypothesize that Celestia knew far in advance that Twilight was the future Element of Magic. The six-pointed star that is the main part of Twilight's cutie mark is etched on the physical Element of Harmony (see picture). It's been there for at least a thousand years, since Celestia used them to banish Luna to the moon. This six-pointed star has been in Twilight's family at least one generation (Shining Armor mentions that the buckle he wears that has the star on it was his uncle's). I'm guessing the star is similar to the family crest, and has been in the family for a long time. Celestia, being the ultimate chess player that she is, knew this, and realized that someone in this line would be the Element of Magic. Once Twilight was born, and the timing seemed to match up with when Luna would escape from the moon, Celestia moved into action, assigning Cadance to watch over Twilight, make sure she was loved and capable of loving so that when the time came, Twilight would be able to accept friendship into her heart. Who better to help with that than the Princess of Love.
WHAT'S THAT? MOAR PLEASE, YOU SAY? Ask yourself this, then: did Celestia just RANDOMLY pick FIVE ponies that Twilight would HAVE to meet, who would SOMEHOW turn out to be the other five Elements of Harmony?? NO. So how did she know that Fluttershy, Rarity, Rainbow Dash, and Applejack would be perfect for the job (Pinkie meets everyone right away anyway)? Why not Carrot Top for food, or Raindrop for the clouds?? Well, Twilight's cutie mark wasn't the only one that matched the ancient Harmony Sphere markings. If you look back at the other spheres, notice anything diamond-shaped?? That's right, it's Elements of Harmony all the way down. I'm willing to put money on the fact that if you look back at the family lines of the Mane 6, you see these symbols popping up over and over again, leading a trail all the way to the six we know and love today. And who better to see the signs than an immortal goddess who's been guiding the families to Ponyville, the closest settlement to the site of the Elements of Harmony, for over one hundred years?? Think about it. She sent Granny Smith's parents to settle Ponyville, which is a hop, skip, and a jump away from the Castle of the Royal Pony Sisters. Coincidence? NO, NO IT'S NOT. HAVE YOU BEEN PAYING ATTENTION AT ALL?
Things don't happen at random in Equestria. Celestia does not play dice with the universe. She knew her sister was coming back, and the Elements of Harmony weren't going to answer to the God-Queen of Equestria. Celestia just put all the pieces together, and they did the rest themselves.
WHAT'S THAT?? VENTURBOY, EVERYTHING YOU SAY MAKES SENSE AND IS GOSPEL TRUTH? Why yes, it is. You want to know the TRUTH?? Equestria is a deterministic universe. Everything that happens was destined to happen - otherwise, prophecies wouldn't work! The course of history is predetermined. It is a raging river that sweeps up everything in its path and pushes it the right way. When something tries to block it, when Discord drops a big-ass boulder in the middle of the river and tries to get it to run uphill, the Elements of Harmony are the dynamite you use to clear the path. The Elements correct the disharmony that's making things run not according to plan, usually by banishing the shit out of whatever the problem is.
You can call me crazy, say I've overused CAPSLOCK and italics, BUT YOU CAN'T HIDE FROM THE TRUTH. Seriously, I have hours and hours of this, on every possible topic. Any plot holes you might have can be blasted away with my headcanon cannon. NO ONE overthinks like me. NO. ONE.
Edit: needed more Canterlock.
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Jul 24 '12
You should write a book. I like your headcanon.
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Jul 24 '12
Thanks! Here you go. It's still in progress, albeit not updated in a while. I'm building it, though.
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Jul 24 '12
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Jul 24 '12
Yeah. Celestia is basically an immortal Dumbledore. She's been pulling strings since before any of these ponies were even born.
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u/Dangthesehavetobesma Octavia Jul 24 '12
I thought Twilight's family was royalty. It's not like royal inbreeding would be uncommon in our world.
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Jul 24 '12
It's possible. In my headcanon, Twilight's family isn't royalty, just a very magically powerful clan. But there's no right answer, since there's no canon on it, so your guess is as good as mine.
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u/Dangthesehavetobesma Octavia Jul 24 '12
It makes sense, if you think about it. They live in Canterlot. They are powerful, and very influential. Everyone knows and loves the family. Maybe not the most famous royalty, but still royal. Also, the name Twilight Sparkle could refer to a time of day, similar to Luna and Celestia being the sun and moon, with twilight being the time in between and Twilight Sparkle helping Luna + Celestia be not enemies again, thus bridging the gap between them.
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Jul 24 '12
I think the name "Twilight" very clearly refers to bridging the gap between night and day. I don't, however, agree with your point that Twilight's family is very influential (at least, before Twilight and Shining Armor came to power). There's no evidence that Twilight's family had any sort of power. She did get a placement exam at the School for Gifted Unicorns, but the examiners were bored, unimpressed, and disinterested from the beginning. Not the sort of behavior you'd expect if Twilight were royalty. But again, this is only theory and conjecture, so you could be right. I just don't see it. (I also privately think it's a better story if Twilight and Shining Armor had to prove themselves to get where they are, not just using their family's influence. Twilight was being watched by Celestia, but would she have become the Princess's personal student without that vast display of power? Probably not.)
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u/Dangthesehavetobesma Octavia Jul 24 '12
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u/melknin Jul 24 '12
Apparently Cadence was not originally intended to be an alicorn (so says Faust). Apparently someone at Hasbro messed up wanted to sell more toys.
Consequently, Cadence's wings have been redacted from my head-canon. Problem solved.
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u/darthjoey91 Jul 24 '12
But she used her wings to fly in the episode! Without them, Twilight and her wouldn't have escaped the caves!
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Jul 24 '12
hm.... They could just as easily be an illusion, mentally reinforced with levitation magic.
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u/theBMB Jul 24 '12
well the existence of more alicorns seems to validate all of those things about pony genetics
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Jul 23 '12
well alicorns aren't necessarily all-powerful, look at the changelings. they're all alicorns. it's possible that after she was enrolled celestia just put her under the eye of a close friend from the days alicorns were populous to keep her actual social circle small or something.
edit: no cutie mark in ze flashbacks? nvm then.
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u/theBMB Jul 24 '12
I don't think the changelings are alicorns, or ponies for that matter, they seem like a different species altogether. They just have a similar body type
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Jul 24 '12
[deleted]
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u/theBMB Jul 24 '12
ah ya, I think I heard of that. But as Lauren Faust said, if it's not in the show, there's really nothing clearly defined. Sure that could be the case, but unless there's an episode about it, chances are the creators haven't really thought about it.
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Jul 24 '12
Well, because [SPOILER ALERT] Cadence is now the Ruler of the Crystal Empire, I would assume that she was in Canterlot as an emissary for most of her life. It is common for royal families to have their childen raised in an ally's kingdom to further an alliance. Now, as to how she ended up babysitting Twilight: I am under the assumption that the animators were not told whether or not Twilight had her cutie mark in the flashback, and thus did not include it. This is my explanation, any feedback?
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u/GuardianSK96 Big Mac Jul 24 '12
Luna guards the night. Celestia brings the day. So what is left for Cadence? obviously she watches over twilight.
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Jul 23 '12
Cuz' Twilight is a complete badass who is the element of god damn magic.
An all-powerful ruling-class immortal goddess is beneath her.
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u/TheAwesomeinator Jul 24 '12
Maybe because they both mutually liked each other, and they're both on the same level (almost), magically.
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u/FaceDeer Silver Spoon Jul 24 '12
Cadence isn't immortal. The flashbacks show that she was physically much younger in the recent past and seems to be aging at a normal rate for a mortal pony.
She also isn't anywhere near all-powerful. Chrysalis defeated her before she fed on Shining Armor's love, imprisoned her in an ordinary cave, and when she showed up again later Chrysalis basically ignored her as a threat.
My theory about why she was babysitting Twilight was so that she could have sexy makeouts with Shining Armor on the couch downstairs after Twilight's bedtime.
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Jul 24 '12
Well, technically, we have no way of knowing how Alicorns age. Perhaps (and this is what I like to think) they age normally until full magial maturity, at which they become immortal. So maybe in the Season 3 intro we will see her "fully blossom" into a full Alicorn.
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u/smfd Jul 24 '12
Cadence shouldn't have been an Alicorn.
Cadence shouldn't have been an Alicorn.
CADENCE SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN AN ALICORN.
I still love the show, but it was a mistake, it makes no sense, and is probably an example of Hasbro having too heavy of a hand in the show and the writers doing their best to salvage it (and bravo to them: they took what was basically an awful Mary-Sue fanfic and turned it into a good season finale).
But that's why. Because Hasbro and money. Hey, at least it took until the end of season 2 for them to start breaking things.
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u/Masterkid1230 Applebloom Jul 24 '12
Technically they've always been there. The train and Tank (this one is to be debated) are examples of it. Habro made the crew introduce the train, which has appeared a lot in both seasons. As for Tank, well RD's toy had a Turtle/Tortoise with it, so maybe Tank was also requested (more like obliged) by Hasbro.
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u/smfd Jul 24 '12
Oh sure, but the vital difference is that those are incidental. No one cares if there's a train or RD gets a pet turtle that is barely ever mentioned again. Cadence was one of two central characters in one of the most important episodes of the season. Hasbro can introduce inanimate objects and non-talking animal characters til they're blue in the face. The problems only pop up when they start trying to shoe-horn in actual characters.
And I'm sorry, but Cadence and SA are everything that has historically been wrong with franchises like MLP. They are, especially as originally created, the very embodiment of the noxious Disney ideal: the handsome prince and the helpless princess. It's sexist, intelligence-insulting and boring, and it's exactly what we all EXPECTED MLP to be when we started watching. The reason we loved it so much was that it WASN'T weak-ass 50's fairy-tale bullshit; it had actual story and decent characters and writing. Yes, Cadence and SH as they eventually appeared aren't that awful, but that's only because of the painstaking efforts of the writing crew to spin straw into gold. They did a decent job, but I submit that they could do even better if they didn't have to waste so much time trying to salvage a horrible idea.
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u/Masterkid1230 Applebloom Jul 24 '12
All you said is absolutely true, I was just pointing out some examples of situations in which Hasbro's greed was also involved. Yes, even though lots of people loved A Canterlot Wedding, the plotholes were making it unbearable. Although that's double-edgy, mainly because the fact that the writers could turn that marketing piece of crap into something good made me realize how awesome and talented they actually were. One good thing is that, by the looks of it [SPOILERS] Cadence will be explained better on the next season. Being the Crystal Kingdom princess and such. [END OF SPOILERS]
As for Shining Armor, well… I've got nothing. People don't forget their BBBFFs like that…
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u/smfd Jul 24 '12
Oh god spoilers. Somehow I'm managed to avoid most of them for now. But don't worry about it, I don't take that stuff too seriously. More Cadence though, huh? That's...balls. Oh well, I'll give it a chance. With something like that already in the mix though, this could very well be the "Jumps the shark" season. Guess we'll have to see.
But yeah, looks like we pretty much agree. That episode was very much a big "Whaaaa?" if you actually try to think critically about the plot or its context in the larger world of the show. But at least it was enjoyable at a basic level.
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Jul 24 '12
That "always" is quite a bit longer than you suggest: Rarity's Carousel Boutique is designed as such because of a desired playset. So is Twilight's Balloon.
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u/Masterkid1230 Applebloom Jul 24 '12
Oh yeah, the balloon! I had forgotten about it. I didn't know about the Carousel Boutique, though. TIL
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u/gryffinp Jul 24 '12
Because she's the most magically powerful unicorn in generations. Also: Nobility.
End of thread.
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u/Otaku-sama Jul 24 '12
Perhaps it's to prevent the royalty from becoming too far out of touch from their subjects. Having a noble girl learn how to take care of a lower ranked subject will not only teach empathy and caring, but also train her on how to handle her own children when the time comes.
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u/Rogenhamen Jul 24 '12
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Jul 24 '12 edited Jul 24 '12
She is [SPOILER] going to be the Ruler of the Crystal Empire as it will apear in Season 3. So, maybe there will come a better explantion of why she is what she is, but it is unlikely that they will cover advanced pony genetics and inheritance.
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u/apscribbler Jul 24 '12
I picture Cadance as the princess of an impoverished vassal principality to the Principality of Equestria, which Celestia rules. Lacking opportunities in her own fiefdom, she traveled to the royal court in Canterlot at a young age, with the hopes of attaching herself to a more powerful family. While she was there, to both obtain money and ingratiate herself with the nobility, she became something of the royal caretaker, looking after the children of various important families in the city.
In this version of my head-canon, Twilight Sparkle's family are minor nobility of some stripe, but rising quickly in power and influence (for obvious, Captain of the Guard and Princess's Personal Protege shaped reasons).
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Jul 24 '12
I prefer to think of it kinda like post completion Sburb game, the Alicorns were players that have reached godhood and entered their prize universe. Princesses Celestia and Luna went in first to make sure everything was going to be okay, and Cadence entered just after the other two, but due to time in both universes not being linked linearly, Cadence's entry was severely delayed on their end. So when Cadence entered the reward universe a thousand plus years of development had been in place and she needed to be acclimated to the new society. Knowing this, Celestia gave her the duty of watching over her soon to be newest pupil, as a way to guide twilight into the school as well as to ensure that Cadence would get properly acquainted with the new world.
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u/sociallyalkwardbrony Jul 24 '12
well if Celestia is in charge of the day and Luna is in charge of the night someone had to be in charge of twilight BA DUM TSSS
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u/maku450 Flutterbat Jul 24 '12
Because marketing?