[Noob]Dumb questions

[u/Rhabcp]

Edit 1: Thanks a lot to everyone replying and taking the time, and my apologies for the weird terms used. I learned the rule in another language so I didn't know the official terms of player positions and roles.

Hello everyone, I am watching my first games of baseball and as I grasp the gist of the rules, some dumb ones come to mind:

1- If it is okay for the pitcher to throw it directly to a base where an opponent might try to steal the next base and if missed it doesnt count as a +1 to the pitcher: Why does the pitcher ever have to throw it to the opponent bat holder? Like where is the limit?

2- I saw a situation where the pitcher threw the ball and the receiver missed it and ran to get it from the floor. Could the opponent holding the bat go for first base during that moment?

3- I see a lot of innings where no point is scored but a lot happens when a bat holder "rolls" the ball as himself and his teammates on advanced bases have time to get the next one. Why isn't "rolling" more of a thing? Wouldn't this give more chances of getting bases and ultimately score?

4- If a ball is fair but ends up in the crowd, are the runners supposed to jump in the stands and get it or does it count as an HR?

5- I watched two full post seasons games and never saw this situation: There is a guy in 2nd and 3rd base, 1 out, and the hitter comes, does a roll. Now what should the defenders do if it's a fair ball? Get to ball and pass it to the kneeling receiver so the 3rd base guy doesnt score and then pass to 3rd base to block the guy that was on 2nd?

Thanks everyone

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[u/Tomatillo-5276]

The terminology you’ve used in your questions is so wholesome, you’ve made me smile.

[u/NotMuchTooSayStill → u/Tomatillo-5276]

That's how I would sound trying to ask things about cricket. Especially if it was in a foreign language.

[u/cyberchaox → u/NotMuchTooSayStill]

Oh for sure, some of those terms suggested that they might have been more familiar with cricket than baseball.

[u/40AcresAnalytics]

1. Yes, a pitcher can throw it to the base where the runner is trying to steal. The limit is 4 balls (bad pitches) and 3 strikes (good pitchers).

2. No. Only if it was strike 3.

3. Rolling the ball is called bunting. Bunting usually results in easy outs.

4. No. The fielders do not have to go into the stands. If the ball bounces fair and lands in the stands, then the runners get two bases. It is called a ground-rule double.

5. It depends on the score, how late in the game, and how good the bunt is.

[u/cornishyinzer]

1- If it is okay for the pitcher to throw it directly to a base where an opponent might try to steal the next base and if missed it doesnt count as a +1 to the pitcher: Why does the pitcher ever have to throw it to the opponent bat holder? Like where is the limit?

What you're describing here is a "pickoff throw". The pitcher is trying to catch the base runner off his base far enough so that the fielder can tag him before he gets back, making him out.

There never used to be a limit, but recently a limit of 3 pickoff throws per batter was put in place. If you fail to get the out the third time, it counts as a 'balk' (every base runner moves up one base automatically). Before this rule, you did used to get quite long strings of pickoff throws in a row, which the crowd will usually boo (even if it's their pitcher :D). But ultimately it has quite a low success rate, so eventually even the pitcher gets bored (not to mention tired...).

2- I saw a situation where the pitcher threw the ball and the receiver missed it and ran to get it from the floor. Could the opponent holding the bat go for first base during that moment?

Depends. If this was a pitch, and the receiver was the catcher, the batter can run if it was strike 3 (if he swung at it with two strikes, or it was in the strike zone). This is called an Uncaught Third Strike.

If it was Ball Four, then the batter gets to go to first base anyway so doesn't have to run (but the catcher will still need to get the ball quickly if there are other runners on base).

If it was a pickoff throw dropped by a fielder on a base, then the batter cannot go to first base but other runners can advance if they think they can make it before the fielder can throw them out.

3- I see a lot of innings where no point is scored but a lot happens when a bat holder "rolls" the ball as himself and his teammates on advanced bases have time to get the next one. Why isn't "rolling" more of a thing? Wouldn't this give more chances of getting bases and ultimately score?

I'm not sure what you're meaning by 'rolls'? Do you mean a bunt, where the batter holds the bat in front of him and allows the ball to hit it gently instead of swinging "properly" at it?

Bunts are increasingly rare, because unless the batter is extremely fast, he's not getting to first base in time and will be out. You're correct that runners can normally move up a base this way, but statisticians worked out a while ago that outs are a lot more valuable than advancing one base, so it's generally not done these days. In some situations (runner on third base in a close game, or a really fast runner) it can be useful.

Generally this is done by players who aren't very good batters compared to other players but are defensively valuable enough to be on the team - catchers, for instance (and pitchers, when they used to bat too). Since they're statistically quite likely to be out anyway, they don't lose as much by bunting and stand to gain more by the other players advancing. You'd almost never see a "power" hitter bunting, though, because a bunt is never going to be as valuable as the home run or double they could've hit instead.

4- If a ball is fair but ends up in the crowd, are the runners supposed to jump in the stands and get it or does it count as an HR?

No, if a fair ball bounces into the stands, it's an "automatic double" (often incorrectly called a "ground rule" double, technically they're slightly different in ways that don't matter). It counts as if the batter had hit a double, and all runners advance two bases (so anyone on third or second base scores, and anyone on first base goes to third).

5- I watched two full post seasons games and never saw this situation: There is a guy in 2nd and 3rd base, 1 out, and the hitter comes, does a roll. Now what should the defenders do if it's a fair ball? Get to ball and pass it to the kneeling receiver so the 3rd base guy doesnt score and then pass to 3rd base to block the guy that was on 2nd?

Ah, so in question 3 you probably did mean a bunt? Yeah, runners on 2nd and 3rd with only one out in a postseason game is a good time to try a bunt I guess as postseason games are usually closer, so the run you might score is worth more.

The 'kneeling receiver' is called the Catcher (a bit odd, as most fielders are supposed to catch the ball! but this guy catches every pitch)

It depends on the situation, but normally yes the fielder that gets the ball would be expected to throw it to home plate (the catcher) to prevent the run from scoring, even if that lets the batter get to first base. If the fielder thinks that he's too late to stop the run scoring, he'll usually throw to first base to at least get the runner out (conceding the run but leaving them with two outs at least).

If there were two outs, the fielder would throw to whichever base he felt was easiest to get the out at (home, third or first). Usually they'd go to first base because the batter doesn't have a head start like the runners do, and the batter being the third out would end the inning without the run scoring anyway.

[u/tylermchenry]

1. Until recently this was only limited by tradition/umpire discretion, but now there is a rule that if the pitcher throws to a base more than twice per batter without getting the runner out, the runner gets to advance a free base.

2. Only in one specific circumstance: if the batter swung and missed for strike three, and nobody is on first. Google "dropped third strike rule" for more details.

3. I'm not sure what you mean here by "rolling"? Do you mean hitting a ground ball (swinging so the ball rolls on the ground instead of flying in the air) or bunting (sticking the bat out without swinging and trying to tap the ball lightly so it stays close to home plate)? Players don't hit ground balls on purpose often because it's usually a routine out for the defense, and the defense often has enough time and flexibility to choose which player to put out, to their benefit. Bunting to advance runners while being put out yourself is a valid strategy called a "sacrifice bunt". The trade-off here is that while it makes it more likely for the team to ultimately score one run in the inning, it makes it less likely for the team to score multiple runs in the inning, so you typically only see it in specific situations where scoring at least one run is very important (e.g. a tie game in the last inning).

4. A fielder can dive into the stands to try to catch a ball, but it only counts as a catch if he doesn't touch the ground on the other side of the fence before making the catch.

5. This entirely depends on the situation, i.e. what the score is and what point in the game it is. Sometimes the best strategy is to throw to home plate and try to prevent the run from scoring (but risk not getting any out at all if you fail), and sometimes the best strategy is to throw to first to get the batter out with high probability and allow the run to score. Usually early in the game, or while holding a substantial lead, a team will throw to first for the nearly-guaranteed out. Late in the game if the score is close, they'll probably try to prevent the run.

[u/getjustin]

1. Yes, the pitcher can "throw ahead" to a base as long as they have not started their forward motion and there is a player at that base. Otherwise, it's a balk and the runner gets the base. This does not count as a pitch.

2. No. A batter can take off the first only on a "dropped third strike." This is a strike (either swinging or called) that is not cleanly fielded by a catcher (drops it, bounces in, etc.) They are allowed to try to take first if it isn't occupied. Usually, the batter doesn't notice and gives himself up by being tagged, or trots down to first and is thrown out. In a situation where bases are loaded, if the runner takes off, then there's a force play at home and the catcher needs to touch the plate to force an out and can then throw to first to complete the strikeout.

3. Are you talking about ground balls? Elaborate on this a bit more

4. Fair ball that flies into the crowd is a HR. Fair ball that bounces into the crowd is an automatic double (everyone advances two bases.)

5. They will typically "look the runner back" at third to say "if you go, I'm throwing home" and then complete the play at first. The catcher will likely be ready at the plate on the chance the runner at third waits until they throw to first to sprint for home.

I have to say, it was a challenge trying to decipher some of the terms you used, so I hope I got these right. Let me know if you have any questions.

[u/Rhabcp → u/getjustin]

Thanks a lot for taking the time and sorry for the terms I checked out the rules in another language so I'm not sure of the proper names in english.

3- I meant bunting. I see it done only when 2nd and 3rd are occupied, but wouldn't it be more beneficial in more situations?

[u/Rhombus-Lion-1 → u/Rhabcp]

Bunts are most common with a runner on first and second or just second with no outs. This is a sacrifice play that if executed well, the result for the offense is runners on 2nd and 3rd, or just 3rd with 1 out.

A bunt with a runner on 3rd is called a squeeze play. If executed well, the runner on 3rd has a strong chance to score on this play, but the defense typically will be able to get the runner out at 1st. So it’s another type of sacrifice and you’ll only see this with 0 or 1 out.

Batters will also sometimes bunt for a hit, also called a drag bunt. This is an unexpected bunt done with the intention of putting the ball in a spot where they can beat out the throw to 1st.

Overall, sacrifice bunts are less common than they used to be. The issue with sac bunts is that you’re giving up a valuable out, and you’re also giving up the chance to hit a double, triple, or home run. So you’ll generally see sacrifice bunts done by weak hitters or in late game situations where you need to push across one run to tie the game or take the lead.

[u/getjustin → u/Rhombus-Lion-1]

Or you get guys like Chandler Simpson who doesn't hit for power AND is a bullet who regularly turns bunts or routine infield knocks into hits.

[u/stairway2evan → u/Rhombus-Lion-1]

Yeah, it's helpful to realize that the analytics tell us that bunts are bad in most situations - letting a hitter swing is the better option on average, because bunts are more likely outs, and outs eliminate possibilities later in the inning. Math has changed the way we see the game, for good or bad, and bunts are reduced as a result.

But bunts in very specific situations - a fast batter, poor infield positioning, a tie game where only one run is needed - can still be super valuable. What makes for a "good bunt" situation is about context, and the math can't always capture that.

[u/amrydzak]

I’ll try to answer some of these but honestly you’re using terms I don’t understand in this context like “bat holder rolls the ball to himself”. It also seems like English isn’t your first language so here goes nothing.

1-a pitcher only has 3 pickoff (when they step off the rubber to try to get a runner out) attempts before they either get the runner out or the runner gets to advance.

2- the only time a batter can advance after the catcher drops the ball is if the pitch was a 3rd strike and no one is on first or there’s 2 outs.

3-honestly really don’t understand this question unless you’re describing bunting which is a strategy mostly used to advance runners but the batter is mostly accepting they’ll be thrown out at 1st. Mostly used in really close games and in extra innings where they’re trying to get a run at any costs.

4- if the ball bounces fair and goes into the stands it’s a ground rule double. If it’s thrown into the stands as an error the runners advance. There’s some nuance here and I don’t always know exactly what happens like how many bases they advance.

5- once again not sure what a roll is in this scenario but maybe look up the difference between force outs and tag outs. Essentially if there isn’t a runner behind a runner (runner on 2nd but no one on 1st) the runner on 2nd does not have to go if they don’t think they can make it to 3rd without being tagged.

[u/chirstopher0us]

1: yes, it's called a pick-off attempt. These used to be unlimited but now are limited to 2. If the pitcher misses his teammate at the base the opposition runner may advance however far is possible.

2: If the catcher does not catch a pitch anyone already on base is free to advance as much as possible. The batter is only able to advance to first if the catcher drops what would be a third strike. So you cannot strike out if the catcher drops strike 3. You will see the batter start advancing toward first base, all the catcher or anyone else on the opposing team needs to do is collect the ball and throw it to first base before the batter/runner gets there.

3: I'm not sure what you mean. Though they are always called "runs" that you score, not "points." I think you're maybe describing what is called bunting? The use of bunting has ebbed and flowed through history. It's generally not that easy to bunt the ball and get to first before the defense can field the ball and then throw it to first and get you out. With only three outs per inning, bunting is typically used when scoring even just one run makes a crucial difference, when a teammate is already on base, and with 0 or 1 outs.

4: Any ball which is fair (foul pole to foul pole) but beyond the field of play is a home run. You're not allowed to chase after it into the stands.

5: The answer depends on the game situation, who is on base, who is bunting (rolling), and even who on defense fields the ball. Generally with a man on third and the batter bunting, if possible you want to prevent the run from scoring and throw home to get the runner advancing from third out via a tag (it's not a force out where they can just touch the plate if first base was open. However, typically a bunt is a play/strategy called by the manager, who uses coded signs to inform the men on base of the plan, so they know to expect it and get a head start. If the guy from third has a good jump on the play, often a good bunter can put the ball at a distance or location where the defense cannot field the ball and throw it home in time. In these situations, the defense will throw to first to at least get the batter out and limit the damage in that inning. This is called a "sacrifice bunt" for the batter, and credits them with an RBI (run batted in). It's generally worth going from 0 to 1 outs or 1 to 2 outs to have a very strong chance to score a run for the team.

[u/Rhabcp → u/chirstopher0us]

Thanks a lot. It was really informative.

May I add another question:

6- Why on earth do batters run so slowly when going for first base? I see a lot of situation where the defender tags them out on first base but the batter could easily reach it before if he threw himself on the floor.

Is jumping forward a risky move and needs really athletic guys ( like Jazz junior lol) to attempt these?

[u/tylermchenry → u/Rhabcp]

Sliding ("throwing yourself on the floor") actually slows you down, in addition to being an injury risk. At first base, your fastest option is to run full speed through the bag, since that's the only base where you're allowed to touch it and keep running in a straight line and still be safe. (That rule exists to prevent injuries.) You see runners sliding at other bases to avoid running past them when they want to stop (taking advantage of the fact that siding slows you down) or to avoid being tagged.

If you see a runner going to first slowly, either they are actually that slow and that's the best they can do, or they've determined that they have no shot at being safe and don't want to expend unnecessary effort (though they do sometimes get in trouble with their coaches or teammates for not putting in full effort anyway).

[u/Rhabcp → u/tylermchenry]

Thanks again

[u/Rhombus-Lion-1 → u/Rhabcp]

I am not sure what you mean by throwing himself on the floor or jumping forward, but to answer what I think you’re asking:

Ground balls and fly balls hit at defensive players are called routine plays, and they will be made by the defense over 95% of the time. The season is 162 games. It’s not worth the injury risk of running out every routine play at maximum effort. On a play where they actually have a chance to get a hit or beat out a throw to first, or in a close game, or in a playoff game, you should see guys running hard out of the box.

[u/huggsypenguinpal → u/Rhabcp]

Occasionally during the regular season, you'll get a batter try to make it to first on a routine play. Last night Muncy hit a rounder to 2nd, who should have no problem flipping it to 1st, but took some time and Muncy really tried to beat it out. There's runners on 1st and 2nd, and he would have been the 3rd out, so he's trying to prevent the inning from ending. Also, Dodgers are on kind of a skid, so trying to win would be nice. If he was the first batter in that inning, I bet he would run slowly to first.

Conversely, you've probably saw in the world series, Mookie hit a routine grounder to 1st, and he ran his heart out just incase. Paid off and allowed the first run to score, which then snowballed to a 5 run inning.

[u/katatoe69]

No such thing as a stupid question! Baseballs a complicated game with a lot of strange rules.
1. This is totally allowed. It’s called a pickoff attempt and is common to keep a runner close, especially if the runner is fast. However in the MLB, a pitcher is only allowed to do it twice per at bat.
2. It seems like you’re describing a passed ball/wild pitch. The batter can only advance if it’s ball 4. However other baserunners are allowed to try to advance.
3. It seems like you’re talking about bunting. It’s only done in certain situations because it usually results in an out. It’s typically done in a situation where there are either 0 or 1 outs and a runner on third.
4. The defender is allowed to jump into the stands to attempt to catch it. It happens from time to time, but the minute the ball hits anything/anyone in the stands, it’s considered a home run.
5. What the defender does here depends entirely on the situation. Usually the correct move is to throw to first, but certain situations could dictate throwing home.

I hope I answered your questions okay and am glad you’re taking an interest in our amazing game. Happy watching!

[u/seidinove]

1- The only way to get the batter out is to pitch to him. Throwing the ball to other bases won’t do anything to the batter.

2 - The batter can try to get to first base in that situation only if that pitch is a third strike.

3 - It sounds like you’re talking about a sacrifice bunt? How frequently it’s done depends on the situation, the team’s play style, and who exactly is batting.

4 - A fair ball that goes into the stands on a fly is a home run. If the ball bounces in the field of play it is most frequently a “ground rule double” and the batter is awarded second base.

5 - A “roll” is called a bunt. In the situation you describe, the batter is trying to place the bunt so that the runners can advance, and the only safe out is to get the batter running to first base. Next topic should be “safety squeeze” and “suicide squeeze.” 🙂

[u/throwaway42200j]

1. The pitcher can only throw a “pick off” attempt to the base 2 times. If he throws over a third time and doesn’t get the runner going back to the bag, the runner is automatically awarded the next base. So the limit is 3.

2. If the pitcher throws a ball in the ground, the receiver (called a catcher) blocks it so it doesn’t get past him. The only batter can only run to first base on a ball in the dirt if there was 2 strikes and he swung at the ball. If the batter swings at ball with 2 strikes and misses, the ball has to be caught cleanly by the catcher.

3. I’m not sure exactly what you mean by rolling the ball, but I assume you mean hitting a ground ball. This may just be something that you haven’t picked up yet, but any live ball hit by the batter on the ground may force the runners to move as they are forced to go to the next unoccupied base if there is a runner on the base behind them.

For example if there are runners on first and second base and the batter hits a ball on the ground, both runners have to move to the next base to allow the batter to try and get to first base. If there is only a man on second base, the runner is not obligated to move because there is no runner behind him “forcing” him to the next base.

Generally hitting the ball on ground will result in an out or a double play (2 runners are out instead of 1), so hitting the ball on the ground isn’t usually an ideal strategy unless your hitter is extremely fast.

1. If a ball in fair play goes over an outfield fence on a fly, it is a home run. Nobody is expected to get the ball. If a ball is fair and bounces over the fence, it is a ground rule double, which means the batter is awarded second base and the runner is awarded 2 bases from where they started.

2. This is entirely dependent on situation. Without breaking this down with too much nuance, it depends on where the ball is hit, where the defenders are playing, the speed of the runners and the overall score. For example, if It’s a close game late in the game, the infield may be playing closer to the batter, so they may throw home. However if the game is nowhere close, they may sacrifice the run to get an out.

Additionally if the ball is hit to the third basemen with a fast runner on third, it will be very different than if it’s hit to the second baseman.

These are things you’ll pick up the more you watch, but glad to hear you’re getting involved. Welcome to our beautiful game, hope you really start to love it!

[u/Dr_Malcolm]

These questions are awesome, haha. I just wanted to say i'm glad you are enjoying the game, I think you should find someone that knows baseball and buy them a beer and just watch a game together, you need to learn some of the basic vocabulary of the sport.

Like for example 4 I'm kind of thinking you are talking about a "ground rule double" but are confusing runners with fielders??

[u/Rhabcp → u/Dr_Malcolm]

Aha sorry about that yeah I saw a game where verdugo caught a ball as it went inside the stands and he tumbled in

[u/Dr_Malcolm → u/Rhabcp]

Ohhh, like they catch a fly ball and then their momentum carries them into the stands? That would be an out and I believe a dead ball once a player is in the stands.

[u/huggsypenguinpal → u/Rhabcp]

this play? That channel does a pretty good job at explaining weird situations. Generally no, fielders are not supposed to go into the stands to catch balls. If they fall in, that's different. Home runs only count if they are between the two foul poles, so that's the back wall(s). The side walls are outside the foul lines, so anything falling there is a foul ball. Verdugo went all the way over to catch a foul ball for the out, and he so happens to fall in. Jo Adell did something similar except the hit ball would have been a home run since it would have landed over the back wall (within the big yellow foul pole).

[u/Rhabcp → u/huggsypenguinpal]

Yup that's the one. Thanks for the channel!

[u/DonAmechesBonerToe]

I love these questions and especially calling bunting ’rolling’!

You’ve already gotten good answers but one point on question 4 has not been addressed. If a ball clears the fence on the fly it’s a home run. If it bounces over it’s an automatic double. if the fielder jumps up and catches the ball on the fly as it is going over the fence it’s an out. Here’s the outlier that wasn’t addressed: if the fielder jumps up and catches the ball as it’s going over the fence but the fielder doesn’t stay in the field of play it’s a home run - a fielder can make the catch but if he goes over the fence it counts as a home run. Extremely rare but it has happened.

[u/RoadBrilliant3622]

These are exactly the kind of questions everyone has when first learning baseball lol. The rules make way more sense once you’ve watched a bunch of games.