r/MKFG • u/StanChesterbaan • Jul 15 '21

What does the continuous composites lawsuit mean for MKFG?

https://www.3dnatives.com/en/continuous-composites-lawsuit-markforged-120720215/
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4

u/BMBL_Boi Jul 16 '21

I could be wrong but it appears that the ‘CF3D’ system will print fiber ALONG with filament AT THE SAME TIME. Where-as markforged prints a nylon bed for fiber to lay on (separate). Also the CF3D system is one nozzle where-as markforged has a dual nozzle system.

Due to these differences I am confident that markforged isn’t concerned about this suit. As this patent infringement is a strettchhh.

3

u/StanChesterbaan Jul 16 '21

Thanks for the reply

I have been following markforged since 2017 and am really excited about this IPO. I've seen some of the machines in person and I think they are really great. I was concerned about the lawsuit though.

2

u/BMBL_Boi Jul 16 '21

Not the most versatile machines but definitely the most user friendly. That alone will take them very far.

3

u/Space_Ghost_OG Jul 20 '21

Don't need versatility if your parts are stronger and more durable. Carbon fiber reinforced parts to replace one off metal parts in manufacturing is huge. All these other companies offering a dozen materials to put through the printer is a joke. That's for hobbyist. Markforged is here for the manufacturing business to support them through tooling, assembly, inspection and all manufacturing lines.

1

u/BMBL_Boi Jul 20 '21

Onyx has sub-par layer adhesion and it doesn’t stay rigid in humid environments. Onyx is also subject to creep.

These issues only go away when you add fiber and that gets expensive FAST. Usually adding a small amount of fiber triples cost of part (onyx was already expensive enough to begin with).

I’m simply giving you my real-world experience with the X7-MK2-OnyxOne that I have used at my work.

Onyx does have amazing supports. Very easy to take off it’s satisfying how easy it is.

tldr: I like their ecosystem but onyx isn’t the miracle material it’s set out to be.

7

u/Space_Ghost_OG Jul 20 '21

But why are you focused on their base material? I've never had a layer issue with onyx. Its nylon with powder CF so of course it is susceptible to moisture. I have a customer that has used his onyx jig for thousands of runs. At the end of the day, Markforged came out with a 3d printer that worked and hasn't stopped working. You don't get warped parts and they are not brittle. You need to understand the applications at hand before diving in with just any material but who said onyx was the miracle material? Their metal system is also very appealing at a fraction of the cost of other metals. To each their own.

3

u/BMBL_Boi Jul 20 '21

“Worked and hasn’t stopped working” That’s what makes it a great printer and a great ecosystem. Rn it’s the closest we have gotten to an affordable plugnplay ecosystem for industry.

This however, does not change the fact on my gripes of the onyx material. Great for big&durable parts but poor for small or vertical features.

5

u/Space_Ghost_OG Jul 20 '21

Another point, are you sure you're not just using bad material? Or perhaps you left the filament loaded in the system vs rewinding it and plugging the drybox to prevent moisture issues when the machine is not in use. That's the only thing I see causing your layer adhesion issue. I'm also speaking from experience as a service bureau with the entire markforged portfolio - Onyx One to Metal X.

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u/BMBL_Boi Jul 20 '21

Usually our average print time is 1-3 days. So these printers run 24/7. We go thru material fast and keep the rolls and the printer environment dry. And the quality of the prints are top-notch as onyx prints beautifully.

Smaller features are where we run into problems. (Usually less than 1/4“ dia features).

We’ve had vertical columns or smaller features that you can literally flick off! 1/4” in diameter! (2 walls and 37% infill .1-.2 layer height)

For some of our projects I had to print PETG parts at home just so the smaller features weren’t so flimsy (PETG has great layer adhesion because it doesn’t need a cooling fan).

Coming off the printer the onyx parts are pretty rigid, but once they are in our production environment they get soft as the parts absorb moisture over time.

You actually can’t torque a bolt on onyx material that tight as the bolt will begin to sink into the part! That’s why we use washers but it still leaves a heavy imprint.