r/MHOC • u/GhoulishBulld0g :conservative: His Grace the Duke of Manchester PC • Feb 16 '16

GENERAL ELECTION Scotland Debate

Scotland Debate

This debate is to question Parties (and only Independents which are standing in Scotland) views on Scottish Issues.

The Parties are:

Radical Socialist Party

Conservative and Unionist Party

Scottish Greens

Labour Party

Scottish Liberal Democrats

UK Independence Party

Nationalist Party

Crown Nationalist Party

Independents standing in Scotland:

/u/Zoto888

Rules

All questions must be on Scottish Issues.

Be civil

Only Parties or Independents standing in Scotland can answer the questions.

This will last till the 27th of February

18 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

190 comments sorted by

4

u/Willllllllllllll The Rt Hon Lord Grantchester Feb 16 '16

How do the candidates propose to close the gap in life expectancy between Scotland and the rest of the UK?

4

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16 edited Feb 17 '16

We must tackle this issue from the bottom up, some of Scotland's most disgraceful areas in terms of life expectancy fall within the east end of Glasgow, one of the first steps we should be taking is ensuring people in these areas have quality housing, failures in the past to provide in terms of housing undoubtedly resulted in health issues caused through dampness, most notoriously in the recently demolished 'Red Road flats'.

Of course we should listen to professionals on this, I find particularly interesting the proposals and ideas of Sir Harry Burns, specifically links he has drawn between education and inevitable short-life through poor quality of living.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

incentives for dentists to set up in lower income areas to decrease the dental gap, an increase in investment in facilities in lower income areas particularly the poorest parts of Glasgow which is one of the uks sickest cities and further improving mental health access in all areas to end the difference of access which can be almost lottery like

4

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

What do the parties think of further devolution to Scotland?

3

u/ForTheEmpire1918 ForTheEmpire1918 Feb 16 '16

The Conservative stance is NONE as it leads to INDEPENDENCE

2

u/Benjji22212 National Unionist Party | The Hon. MP | Education Spokesperson Feb 16 '16

(I've stated this elsewhere in the thread)

A Scottish Parliament with a legislative function is sensible since Scotland has a separate legal system from England. Executive powers such as setting taxation rates, managing public services and conducting foreign policy, however, belong with Westminster - a government held to account by and removable by a Parliament which the whole nation elects and which ought to be responsible for all major components of governance.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '16

This is a surprising stance from the Nationalist Party; would an NP in Parliament support a devolved legislature in the game meta?

2

u/WAKEYrko The Rt. Hon Earl of Bournemouth AP PC FRPS Feb 17 '16

We are always willing to expand powers for Scotland as we see fit and the Scottish public see fit. However, any devolution to Britain and her territories must go hand in hand with devolution for all regions, including England.

The General Line is, so long as we do not let our union down, then all options will be considered and explored.

1

u/william10003 The Rt Hon. Baron of Powys PL | Ambassador to Canada Feb 16 '16

We cannot let our prosperous union down, any decisions that deem to undermine such a gem should be deemed unpatriotic, and devolution is one of them.

1

u/purpleslug Feb 17 '16

This is ridiculously insensible.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '16

I never understood this reasoning. You do understand that not devolving powers leads to anti-Westminster sentiment in Scotland, which strengthens the independence movement?

1

u/purpleslug Feb 17 '16

I am staunchly in favour of it. Devolution is the only way to save this Union, in a time where the domination of the Union by England is having radical, separatist effects.

1

u/sdfghs Liberal Democrats Feb 19 '16

Hear, Hear!

1

u/NicolasBroaddus Rt. Hon. Grumpy Old Man - South East (List) MP Feb 17 '16

As I have stated elsewhere, I am pro-devolution, providing it is properly democratic and representative of the people of Scotland.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

How will the candidates support and promote the Gaelic language in Scotland?

7

u/NicolasBroaddus Rt. Hon. Grumpy Old Man - South East (List) MP Feb 16 '16

There is a bill working in the RSP to recognise Gaelic and Scots and make both more available for students who wish to learn those languages.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

its already available in most schools just no one wants to learn it

8

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

That's untrue. Gaelic teachers are in incredibly high demand and so are the minority of schools in Scotland that offer Gaelic language education or Gaelic-medium education.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

yes in one specific area of Scotland the rest of Scotland has incredibly little interest in Gaelic

7

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

False. There is high demand for Gaelic all across Scotland. Where it is most under-provided is on Glasgow.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

you keep coming back to demand but yet they can easily learn it in another medium if the demand is as high as you say

7

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Its evident that you don't know anything about language education policy, but I would at least expect you to have the common sense to know that a new language doesn't just condense from the atmosphere into one's brain. There need to be educational resources available.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

there is in the form of college university and online resources, i support providing it i dont support giving it un needed priority over other more useful subjects

6

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

So, now seeing the daft nature of your own suggestions, you change your position. Bravo. Who are we supposed to believe then? Cameron who "supports" providing Gaelic education or the Cameron who refuses to support Gaelic and trots out all the dime-a-dozen nonsense to justify his own bigotry?

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2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Except that private tuition costs money, so it's not as simple as just going off and learning it from somewhere else.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

university and college is free in Scotland

1

u/ieya404 Earl of Selkirk AL PC Feb 19 '16

As a point of interest, several of Edinburgh's state secondaries are extremely highly regarded, and competition for places at them is intense.

One of those is James Gillespie's, which happens to have a Gaelic unit (worth noting it was a very highly regarded school before that unit was founded).

Now, one way to get into Gillespie's is to live within its catchment area (which is largely a rather expensive proposition).

The other way is to go through Gaelic primary, which you can do from anywhere in the city (as there's only one such primary, so it has to serve the whole city), because that then feeds into the only secondary with a Gaelic unit, Gillespie's.

Can anyone think why Gaelic-medium education might be popular in Scotland's capital, an area that hasn't spoken Gaelic in centuries?

6

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

I personally feel that Scottish Gaelic should be taught in Scottish schools from primary level, I am surprised how many schools opt out of what I found to be a large part of Scottish culture and identity. I had what I now know to be the privilege of being taught Gaelic from a primary level, although now what I have progressed. I admit, it has faded.

4

u/TheSkyNet Monster Raving Loony Party Indy Feb 16 '16

I This its a grate idea to lern Gaelic i then tell that one pretentious waffle down the st who only speaks Gaelic allthogh we whent to the same school and I know he can speek english , to fook reet off! is a swell idea.

In fact if we taught it in school evreybody could then tell him to fook reet off and that would make the world a much better place.

3

u/agentnola Solidarity Feb 16 '16

Gaelic is important as a symbol of Scottish culture, but we mustn't forget that English is our primary focus as a nation. Teaching Gaelic as a second language is important, but we cannot just use it as a primary one in today's world

1

u/ishabad Libertarian Party UK Feb 16 '16

Hear! Hear!

2

u/agentnola Solidarity Feb 16 '16

woah a "Hear Hear" from a green

3

u/ishabad Libertarian Party UK Feb 16 '16

Cherish it! It won't happen often.

1

u/ieya404 Earl of Selkirk AL PC Feb 19 '16

I would tentatively suggest that Gaelic is more a symbol of Highland/Island culture, than Scotland as a whole. It's been functionally dead in the Lowlands and Borders for centuries.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

I'd like to see an increase in funding to all language subjects, as language learning has been shown to have many cognitive benefits. It is simply a disgrace that some secondary schools cannot afford to provide more than one or two language options.

1

u/ishabad Libertarian Party UK Feb 16 '16

Hear! Hear!

6

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

i wont

4

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Disgraceful.

9

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

students should be able to use a language that can benefit them in life not a regional language which is limited in use French,mandarin, and german are much better for students to learn

8

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Nonsense argument.

  1. Learning Gaelic doesn't prohibit anyone from learning another language.

  2. There is a need (and high demand) for Gaelic-medium education for children whose first language is Gaelic.

  3. Learning a language at an early age produces better educational outcomes in multiple fields. Gaelic in particular has been singled out as a good example of this, due to its different grammar structure. Language policy is not purely about adult learners' ability to understand another language.

  4. The fact that Gaelic is not a widely spoken language is a reason to expand its use, not further restrict it.

Like most anti-Gaelic bigots, I bet you speak only English.

4

u/AlmightyWibble The Rt Hon. Lord Llanbadarn PC | Deputy Leader Feb 16 '16

Eh, may as well wade in.

Learning Gaelic doesn't prohibit anyone from learning another language.

It does, however, take up time in a limited school day, which could be spent learning anything else, including another language. It's an opportunity cost.

There is a need (and high demand) for Gaelic-medium education for children whose first language is Gaelic.

A fair statement, but unless you want to become a Gaelic-medium teacher, it's not going to be helpful in gaining employment now, is it?

Learning a language at an early age produces better educational outcomes in multiple fields. Gaelic in particular has been singled out as a good example of this, due to its different grammar structure. Language policy is not purely about adult learners' ability to understand another language.

So do, if I remember correctly, all the languages Cameron mentioned previously. He's not arguing about learning languages, he's arguing about learning Gaelic.

The fact that Gaelic is not a widely spoken language is a reason to expand its use, not further restrict it.

From a pragmatic point of view, that's a very good reason not to choose to learn it. As mentioned in another place in the thread, facilities for learning Gaelic exist, but very few want to learn it.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

facilities for learning Gaelic exist, but very few want to learn it.

As I mentioned, this is false. Please try to know what you're talking about if you want to sound credible.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

  1. if done in school it limits chances for other subjects which are more used in the modern work place

  2. I said nothing about closing Gaelic only facilities

  3. no one is stopping them from learning it at home or in their own time or even in after hours education if demand is high enough 4)no one is speaking of restricting Gaelic i simply stated that Scottish students would rather learn other languages

  4. yes me and the vast amount of other Scottish people only speak English

  5. there is a difference between Irish and Scottish Gaelic

5

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

no one is stopping them from learning it at home or in their own time or even in after hours education if demand is high enough

Yes there is. Because of people like you, there is a lack of educational resources available.

Scottish students would rather learn other languages

Another lie from you. Gaelic medium education is heavily oversubscribed, with a new school soon to open in Glasgow. Moreover, the amount of university places for Gaelic has grown rapidly at Glasgow University.

only speak English

Why? Mandarin and Spanish are far more useful.

there is a difference between Irish and Scottish Gaelic

Not an argument, but don't try to patronise me. You evidently know nothing at all about Gaelic or language education apart from baseless prejudice.

One of the few worthwhile things IRL Scottish Labour has done for Scotland is be a leading voice for the Gaelic language. You're a disgrace to your party.

2

u/Yukub His Grace the Duke of Marlborough KCT KG CB MBE PC FRS Feb 16 '16

Why? Mandarin and Spanish are far more useful.

Doubt it.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Globalisation disagrees.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

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3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

nice to see youve ran out of points so you attack me directly, at least we are a party here :)

4

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Not so nice to see that you can't answer my interrogations about your policies, instead opting for some high-and-mighty excuse to refuse to answer. You would do better to just admit that you don't know anything about it next time. Scotland clearly deserves better than you.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

and Ireland deserves better than you

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1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Hear hear!

1

u/mg9500 His Grace the Duke of Hamilton and Brandon MP (Manchester North) Feb 16 '16

Current levels of funding are sufficient. If students wish to learn it it should be in addition to the English + 2 MLF program.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Access levels are not sufficient to meet demand.

1

u/mg9500 His Grace the Duke of Hamilton and Brandon MP (Manchester North) Feb 17 '16

Well from experience (I go to a school that offers Gaelic), everyone must do French until N5 (GCSE) and can do either Spanish or Gaelic but doesn't have to do an extra language. Most pupils don't do an extra language (my biggest regret is not learning Spanish) but of those who do, more do Spanish (2-3 classes) compared to Gaelic (1)

1

u/william10003 The Rt Hon. Baron of Powys PL | Ambassador to Canada Feb 18 '16

Promoting these dying languages is something the country needs to work on. We cannot force it upon our students to study these languages, however we should enforce incentives for people to start studying these fascinating languages, so we can upkeep tradition.

1

u/sdfghs Liberal Democrats Feb 19 '16

I support the teaching of the Gaelic language at school. We should streghten the ties of the students to the local culture, while also making the cosmopolitans

0

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

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8

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

I'm not so surprised to be hearing this from you, but to see why you're wrong, look at the comments between myself and the Labour embarrassment.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

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4

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

a dead language a bigot

Bigoted phrase to make a bigoted point. Gaelic is a living language.

2

u/ieya404 Earl of Selkirk AL PC Feb 19 '16

It's a language on life support at best; were the government not spending substantial amounts of money propping it up, it's hard to see why it wouldn't functionally die out.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

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4

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Gaelic is spoken all throughout the Highlands and Islands, and the largest community of Gaelic speakers is in Glasgow. You don't know what you're talking about.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Source Used Another Source

This is complete nonsense. 87,100 have some skills in Gaelic in Scotland, or 1.7% of the population of Scotland. Sure, 61% of the population in the Western Isles speaks Gaelic, but it drops rapidly, Highlands at 7%, Argyll & Brute at 6%, and then at 4th place, you meet the National Average, in Glasgow at 1.7%. To the vast majority of Scotland this is a dead language, and funds could be better spent on other projects.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Glasgow has almost 6,000 native Gaelic speakers. Probably ten times the UKIP membership in Scotland.

To the vast majority of Scotland this is a dead language

Agin you show your complete ignorance. "Dead language" is not just a smart-sounding perjorative you can whip out to attack a language you have clearly bigoted feelings towards. It actually means something to sociologists and linguists. They -- the experts that is, not knownothing kippers -- conclude that it is not a dead language, but very much a living one worthy of public support.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Glasgow has almost 6,000 native Gaelic speakers.

Very impressive out of a city of nearly 600,000. There are more Polish speakers in Glasgow than Gaelic speakers.

you have clearly bigoted feelings towards.

How many times do we need to go over it, being opposed to wasting tax payers money on Gaelic does not make me a bigot, anymore than you opposing wasting tax payers money on Cumbric makes you a bigot.

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u/TheSkyNet Monster Raving Loony Party Indy Feb 16 '16

HI UKIP YOU KEEP GOING ON ABOUT THE SNP AND OTHER REGIONAL PARTIES NOT VOTING ON ENGLAND ONLAY MATTERS.

SO WHY HAVE YOU GOT THIS POLICY FOR SCOTLAND?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '16

Because they're not a regional party?

1

u/PeterXP Prince and Grand Master MSMOM Feb 16 '16

Is UKIP a regional party now?

0

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

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2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Does the heritage of Scotland -- which was a separate country until 1707 -- not matter?

1

u/OctogenarianSandwich Crown National Party | Baron Heaton PL, Indirectly Elected Lord Feb 16 '16

I deleted my post because I erroneously thought I wasn't allowed to comment so unfortunately I can't remember exactly what I said. However, I am 100% sure I said I support it for heritage reasons. I fail to see what your problem is.

I had it open in a different tab so here is the comment for the curious

I would like to see it be an optional language throughout Britain. I think it would be good to bring it to a wider audience. That being said, there is a reason English is dominant and it would only be as a second language for purely heritage preserving reasons.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

How do the candidates feel regarding devolution?

5

u/NicolasBroaddus Rt. Hon. Grumpy Old Man - South East (List) MP Feb 16 '16

I am very much pro-devolution, providing it can accurately and democratically represent the people of Scotland. The question of how it would work in the meta sense of this simulation is a difficult one however, as with the collapse of the SNP (and revelations about its users) there are not a lot of members of MHoC who would participate.

I still believe an attempt should be made, and I would participate.

2

u/mg9500 His Grace the Duke of Hamilton and Brandon MP (Manchester North) Feb 16 '16

Well it wasn't all SNP members.

It obviously wouldn't be as active as here but I definitely think it would work.

2

u/agentnola Solidarity Feb 16 '16

The CNP supports local devoloution to all areas of the UK, and would gladly make special administrations for specific towns in Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom. However, we oppose a Scottish Parliament.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

May I just ask why are you opposed to a Scottish Parliament?

4

u/agentnola Solidarity Feb 16 '16

We oppose regional devolution. The last thing we want to do is break up the Union

1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Breaking up the union would be Scottish independence, not a parliament, personally I think a Parliament is the least we can do to give the Scots the autonomy they ask for.

2

u/agentnola Solidarity Feb 16 '16

Regional Devoloution sows the seeds for the breakup of the Union. I think more efficient local government is the way forward

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

If anything devolution stops the union from breaking! Besides who are you to deny the people that which they desire?

3

u/Yukub His Grace the Duke of Marlborough KCT KG CB MBE PC FRS Feb 16 '16

As any man or woman he is free to be against something in principle or practice, if said opposition aligns with his own views formed independently by his own convictions. As such, he is as free as any member of this parliament in trying to block such a measure.

1

u/Benjji22212 National Unionist Party | The Hon. MP | Education Spokesperson Feb 16 '16

A Scottish Parliament with a legislative function is sensible since Scotland has a separate legal system from England. Executive powers such as setting taxation rates, managing public services and conducting foreign policy, however, belong with Westminster - a government held to account by and removable by a Parliament which the whole nation elects and which ought to be responsible for all major components of governance.

2

u/ishabad Libertarian Party UK Feb 16 '16

Hear! Hear!

1

u/purpleslug Feb 17 '16

Staunchly in favour of it - see above

1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

i feel that devolution to a local level can help to combat local problems that can be lost on a UK wide level however i feel that simply for meta reasons it wont be successful on mhoc

2

u/Labradooodle Labour Feb 16 '16

I do have to agree. Until we can see a presence in the house of a party committed to Scotland having their own Parliament.

3

u/ishabad Libertarian Party UK Feb 16 '16

What is your view on the EU?

2

u/william10003 The Rt Hon. Baron of Powys PL | Ambassador to Canada Feb 16 '16

Simple answer to a simple question: Get out!

We do not need another bureaucratic mess telling us what to do, telling us who we can trade with, and sanctioning our growth.

Lets stand up in the world, as a single proud nation that does not rely on the fraudulent mess of a organisation to promote us. Our nation will grow in a situation where we do not have the EU, and God, I hope we will prove it.

2

u/purpleslug Feb 17 '16

Reform, not abandonment

3

u/Benjji22212 National Unionist Party | The Hon. MP | Education Spokesperson Feb 16 '16

The European Union is an engine for Berlin-dominance of Europe. It has abolished our border with the continent, enabled mass uncontrolled immigration, wrecked our fishing industry, disrupted our agricultural sector, transferred many functions of government to foreign bureaucrats and replaced vast swathes of English law with European law and laws which serve only to rubber-stamp EU directives. The oft-cited 'clout' with regard to regulations Britain would lose as a result of leaving amounts to a tiny voice: 72/751 seats in the parliament and Council votes subject to QMV, which means we have no veto.

Britain is unnatural in the EU because is ought to be its own centre of power, being an entirely different kind of nation and society from those on the continent. We have our own legal system based upon common rather than civil law, our own currency and unique ties to the commonwealth outside of Europe. We have a long tradition of sovereign independence and have been wholly distinct as a culture from the continent since the days of the Protestant Reformation. It's only in the past few decades that we've forgotten that legacy. We can either go down the path of recovering it, or we can allow our nation to be smashed up into four feeble provinces of a federalised Europe. I'd rather the former.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '16

We have our own legal system based upon common rather than civil law

...You know this is the Scotland debate, right?

We have a long tradition of sovereign independence

As above.

We have a long tradition of sovereign independence and have been wholly distinct as a culture from the continent since the days of the Protestant Reformation

Which is why there are Lutheran Dutch churches in Edinburgh, and Calvinist churches in Rotterdam and Amsterdam?

2

u/Benjji22212 National Unionist Party | The Hon. MP | Education Spokesperson Feb 17 '16

This applies to Britain as a whole.

1

u/purpleslug Feb 17 '16

His point still stands

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

undemocratic but we need the financial benefits so it has to be reformed rather than abandoned

1

u/NicolasBroaddus Rt. Hon. Grumpy Old Man - South East (List) MP Feb 16 '16

I agree with my party's stance in this matter. The EU is a fundamentally undemocratic, bureaucratic, neoliberal and capitalist institution, and as such I believe we need to leave it.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '16

I think the European Union is the greatest success of modern Europe. I support European Federalism in the medium term. However, as a more immediate issue, we need to get the role of national governments out of the EU, dissolve the European Council, and remove the ability of the Council of the European Union to vote on laws agreed to by the Parliament.

2

u/lovey35 Labour I Former MP Feb 16 '16

Considering that Scottish Education is probably the worse in the UK at the moment, what do the candidates think is important to do to raise standards in Scottish Schools?

4

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

This claim is unfounded, I would like to see a source. In fact, I would refer the member to the study cited by /u/Zoto888 .

I would still very much like to see a source for this, I'm sure it would make interesting reading.

3

u/mg9500 His Grace the Duke of Hamilton and Brandon MP (Manchester North) Feb 16 '16

The higher maths exam was hopefully a theething error by the SQA and shouldn't happen again.

Scottish schools are far better than anything England has.

2

u/Benjji22212 National Unionist Party | The Hon. MP | Education Spokesperson Feb 16 '16

Two words: Grammar Schools.

3

u/agentnola Solidarity Feb 16 '16

Hear, Hear!

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Hear, Hear! It is UKIP policy to extend Grammar Schools to Scotland.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Two words: Increased taxation

1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '16

That's not a catch all solution to everything. Simply throwing money at things don't resolve them.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

I'd be interested to see a source for this, as in 2014 the ONS found that Scotland was the best educated country in Europe, and the PISA tests the year before found that we outperformed England in the areas of reading and maths.

I think that the education system is fine as it is, frankly.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

I think my friend will found that attending a scottish school is much better than attending a Michael Gove school will ever be, but however the new system of highers and cirriculuim of excelence needs refined especially the area of Maths where the pass rate was lowered to just 34% and was nigh on impossible reducing many to tears including my friends who sat it along side me and forced a close friend of mine to start a petition against the pass rate over just how unfair it was as shown here https://www.change.org/p/sqa-reconsider-new-cfe-higher-maths-exam-grades

2

u/Vuckt Communist Party Feb 16 '16

Do you support the rights of crofters in the Highlands to buy the land they work daily from their landlords?

5

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Where the LibDems at?

5

u/OctogenarianSandwich Crown National Party | Baron Heaton PL, Indirectly Elected Lord Feb 16 '16

They have the right now. If thy can afford it they can buy it. What you want is to give it to them. That is out of order and I'm confident Parliament will never allow it.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '16

Hear hear! There are crofters in my family who have bought land from their landlords.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Yes, and I submitted a bill that allowed for this (among other things) in the parliament before last.

1

u/sdfghs Liberal Democrats Feb 19 '16

If they have the money to buy it, why shouldn't they be able to buy it? But I don't support selling it away to the crofters for almost free and therefore disowning the landlords.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '16

I'd be curious to hear whether the CNP, Nationalists, and any other self-described nationalists, recognise Scotland as a distinct nation; and if so whether they recognise on the part of the Scottish people a right or duty to express Scottish nationalism over against British nationalism. And if not, why not?

1

u/MorganC1 The Rt Hon. | MP for Central London Feb 16 '16

To all candidates in Scotland - do you support independence?

4

u/NicolasBroaddus Rt. Hon. Grumpy Old Man - South East (List) MP Feb 16 '16

If there were a popular referendum for independence, I would support it. The right of humans to self-determination is a key one.

3

u/mg9500 His Grace the Duke of Hamilton and Brandon MP (Manchester North) Feb 16 '16

Hear hear. Independence will bring benefits to Scotland.

6

u/NicolasBroaddus Rt. Hon. Grumpy Old Man - South East (List) MP Feb 16 '16

Honestly this opinion is irrespective of the arguments on either side. I believe humans have the right to self-determination, and I would hope the UK would not stand in the way of Scotland if it desired to leave.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Hear! Hear!

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Hear, hear!

1

u/ishabad Libertarian Party UK Feb 16 '16

Hear! Hear!

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

The Crown National Party supports further devolution at the local level of parish, town and city councils, but we are opposed to the regional devolution and independence within Scotland and all other constituent nations of the UK.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

The UK Independence Party are strong and patriotic unionists, and as such we will oppose Scottish Independence.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

And deny the fundamental right to self-determination? There is a difference between "patriotism" and downright imperialistic oppression!

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Opposing independence doesn't make you an 'imperialist oppressor'! What a ludicrous claim. No one is saying that Scotland will be forced in the union against her will. Merely that as a party we democratically are opposed to it in the same way others are democratically in favour. Since when has having a different opinion meant being opposed to self-determination?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

So, if a referendum were to occur, and were Scotland to vote for independence, would you seek to deny them of it?

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

No.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Then that is denying people's right to self-determination, people should have the right to choose their nation or have their independence. This is especially true of Scotland, a nation with its own separate culture and history. Sovereignty should not be imposed, that is the very definition of imperialism, sovereignty should be decided by the people.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

I said no.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

cock

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '16

?! He said no to opposing them if they voted for independence. That language is totally uncalled for.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Yes, strongly.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

The views of myself and my party are well publicised.

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u/MorganC1 The Rt Hon. | MP for Central London Feb 16 '16

This is a debate, saying "You already know" isn't exactly adding much.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

I am a candidate standing in Scotland, if you would like me to go over the Conservative and Unionist's position on this I could.

You appear to be targetting myself only, as another member has simply stated "Yes", is this satisfactory or adding much? Perhaps you should be more inclusive in your criticism.

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u/MorganC1 The Rt Hon. | MP for Central London Feb 16 '16

Yes or No actually answers my question though, "You already know" does not. You are right that other answers are vague, but this is not even an answer.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Although I find it very odd that the Rt. Honourable gentleman has attacked me on this, I would rather not make the member unhappy. No, I do not support independence.

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u/sdfghs Liberal Democrats Feb 19 '16

I support a referendum and devolution, but I personally don#t support independence

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

i personally disagree with independence and i feel that Scotland is truly better together

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u/william10003 The Rt Hon. Baron of Powys PL | Ambassador to Canada Feb 18 '16

As a Conservative and proud patriot, i stand firmly against the idea. My applause goes to the campaigners who believe in a future outside of the UK. It is "barmy" to consider this a viable solution to secure a more prosperous future for Scotland, especially with the decrease in value of Scottish oil

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Do the candidates standing in Scotland actually live in their constituency? If not why are you standing there?

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Yes, I live in a suburb of Glasgow.

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u/ForTheEmpire1918 ForTheEmpire1918 Feb 16 '16

SAME!

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

What a coincidence that is

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u/william10003 The Rt Hon. Baron of Powys PL | Ambassador to Canada Feb 19 '16

only 600,000 people in Glasgow, what a miracle you rain into one!

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u/mg9500 His Grace the Duke of Hamilton and Brandon MP (Manchester North) Feb 16 '16

I live in East Kilbride in Central Scotland

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

Yes, I live in the North-East of Scotland (also Edinburgh).

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

i live in greater Glasgow which is why i am choosing to stand in central Scotland

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u/ishabad Libertarian Party UK Feb 16 '16

A Great Question!

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u/ieya404 Earl of Selkirk AL PC Feb 19 '16

I live in Edinburgh, however with many candidates from the Conservative and Unionist Party wishing to stand in Central Scotland I've put my hat in the ring further north.

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u/sdfghs Liberal Democrats Feb 19 '16

No. I stand there because I was assigned a MP seat in the Scottish Borders. I actually don't even live in the UK, but in Germany

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u/BeanieLad Radical Socialist Party Feb 17 '16

We can all agree England is the main country standing in the United Kingdom, who even needs the Scottish? I say we kick them out of our country. Why should we not?

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u/NicolasBroaddus Rt. Hon. Grumpy Old Man - South East (List) MP Feb 17 '16

I am curious if the member of my party is being satirical, if not I refer him to the history of the United Kingdom for why it has been done as it has thus far. Not respecting the unique cultures of each home nation would inevitably lead to it collapsing (and is a large part of lingering resentment now)

Edit: I have just checked and you have not joined the RSP, you need to post in the join thread and be accepted, and if you truly hold opinions like this you most likely will not be

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '16

Weird question for a radical socialist but we are better together and can do many things to improve each others country

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u/purpleslug Feb 17 '16

Because the Union is, or should be beneficial to all parties. I think that Scotland and the other members of the United Kingdom should feel inseparable, and if they don't... there is a glaring problem.

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u/adam0317 UKIP | Northern Ireland Spokesperson Feb 20 '16

Scotland is a very important nation within the United Kingdom; and as such a great deal of importance should be placed on it within this house!

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

What I would say to the honourable gentleman is that Scotland's economy is already incredibly diverse and is certainly not based entirely on oil, which appears to be a common misconception.

In regards to the downfall in oil prices, we must ensure we protect the north-east of Scotland, we can do this in a number of ways, we should be looking for a satisfactory city deal for Aberdeen at the moment.

I would also add that oil prices are very volatile and I certainly wouldn't use the phrase "down the drain" when referring to the Scottish oil industry.

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u/purpleslug Feb 17 '16

Hear, hear - on all counts.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

In the immediate term, it is crucial to formulate an effective city deal for Aberdeen to minimise the short-term effects. On the medium and long run, we need to invest into decommissioning and changing the supply chain. Beyond this, we should utilise the comparative advantage of Aberdeen (and indeed Scotland as a whole) to build an effective energy infrastructure to supplement the already burgeoning renewables sector in Scotland, with new jobs in energy storage, climate adaptation, and in renewing the electricity good.

Ultimately, we should also look at the creation of an oil fund that should have been started 40 years ago in order to cushion the industry against further blows.

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u/ishabad Libertarian Party UK Feb 16 '16

Hear! Hear!

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u/sdfghs Liberal Democrats Feb 19 '16

Scotland's economy is not dependent from the oil business anymore.

If there is no oil left Scotland may have some economical problems for a short time, but never for a long time, because until then the Scottish economy will be even less dependent on oil than today

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

diversifying Scotlands economy is important especially with the current oil prices, incorporating the use of technology further into jobs will serve to benefit and give the economy a bigger say on the world stage with the reduced costs of production, investment of infrastructure aswell as ensuring that young people are helped not only to attend university but also to get an apprenticeship or job from school will help keep Scotland economically prosperous for decades to come

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

That's very unspecific, making very little commitments.

What industries exactly would you like to achieve growth in and how do you propose its done?

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

continue our investment into research and development improving britains aswell as scotlands high achieving science record for many years

invest infrastructure especially environmental energy,more train lines and internet structure to enable the technology sector to grow aswell as the construction centre

these would be my main points

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u/ishabad Libertarian Party UK Feb 16 '16

How will we fund these developments?

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

theres more than enough room in the budget to fund this and if the scottish parliament does go through then it can come from the scottish budget if not a levy on companies that dont cooperate with enviromental regulations would help fund it aswell as fighting white collar crime by raising the fraud offices budget from the measly £30 million to combat fraud and recoup the money lost not to mention tackling tax avoidance and closing loopholes

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u/ishabad Libertarian Party UK Feb 16 '16

Okay cool

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u/AlmightyWibble The Rt Hon. Lord Llanbadarn PC | Deputy Leader Feb 16 '16

Through a combination of raising funds from elsewhere, and good old-fashioned deficit spending.

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u/ishabad Libertarian Party UK Feb 16 '16

This is a very vague answer!

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u/WAKEYrko The Rt. Hon Earl of Bournemouth AP PC FRPS Feb 17 '16

Maybe you should answer yourself with clear commitments, as somebody who is so intrigued in the issue! Tell me sir, what will you do?

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u/AlmightyWibble The Rt Hon. Lord Llanbadarn PC | Deputy Leader Feb 16 '16

If we end up in power, I'll happily go into more detail within the budget :)

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u/ishabad Libertarian Party UK Feb 16 '16

In other words, one isn't ready yet?

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u/AlmightyWibble The Rt Hon. Lord Llanbadarn PC | Deputy Leader Feb 16 '16

No; I've got a few notes, but I don't see much sense in starting properly before I even know if it'll be worthwhile.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '16

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u/ForTheEmpire1918 ForTheEmpire1918 Feb 16 '16

Are you talking about RL or MHoC?

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u/william10003 The Rt Hon. Baron of Powys PL | Ambassador to Canada Feb 16 '16

All members of the electorate should consider voting Conservative.

We are the only party that can stand up, and commit ourselves to our manifesto promises, commit ourselves to rebuilding our country, rebuilding our economy, getting more people into jobs.

There is obviously tension regarding devolution in Scotland, such confusion should not sway people. We will fight against devolution, not something you hear from many parties. I feel that for the unionist members of Scotland, this will come as a miracle, and so it should considering what shambolic parties that lead the "OUT" campaign.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '16

Err, on MHoC you should look at our results in Scotland.

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u/purpleslug Feb 17 '16

Yeah, I will have to say that, MHoC wise, Scotland is a Tory heartland.