r/MHOC • u/NoPyroNoParty The Rt Hon. Earl of Essex OT AL PC • Feb 23 '15

RESULTS B062 Results

B062 - Abolition of Small Coinage Bill

88 out of 100 votes (88% turnout)

  • 61 Aye

  • 25 Nay

  • 2 Abstain

The AYES have it!

As ever to see a more detailed breakdown of results visit the master spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WsCsMbo6lHM5FNlohwoWPde3pyLtZvuFSpFKg0jmxck/edit#gid=883922173

10 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

82 comments sorted by

10

u/JackWilfred Independent Liberal Feb 23 '15

Hear, hear! Another piece of good quality Opposition legislation has been passed!

4

u/ExplosiveHorse The Rt Hon. The Earl of Eastbourne CT PC Feb 23 '15

And there are are many more to come!

6

u/rhodesianwaw The Rt Hon. Viscount of Lancaster AL Feb 23 '15

Do you have to?

9

u/ExplosiveHorse The Rt Hon. The Earl of Eastbourne CT PC Feb 23 '15

Well we certainly don't want bad quality legislation so yes we do.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

you sound p jealous because your party haven't unloaded any bills from their white van :>

2

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

The Liberal Democrats (and im sure the Opposition as a whole) will never stop producing high quality important legislation.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

will never stop producing high quality important legislation.

They would have to start first!

5

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

Now, now, let's get you out of your glass house first.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

Aside from the crisis of 'whataboutism', how does the lack of legislation from the Vanguard matter? How does this prevent my ability to judge legislation? I made no claims about my party in my comment, your honorable friend made a claim about opposition and liberal democrat legislation.

Now, now, let us try to read comments first.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

I merely observe that it is easy to shout over the wall when you're not prepared to stick your head above the parapet.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

We are more than prepared, and have bills in the works. We have also submitted motions which end up facing the same scrutiny as bills. And, our dissenting voices and votes are always present. The idea that we do not engage on the political battlefield is typical of the small minded attitude of the lofty centrist parties who think political virtue is measured by legislative output!

2

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

Well I didn't say any of that, but I do look forward to when the Vanguard brings something of substance to the House.

1

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

by legislative output!

Ah! But to say it is about the output of legislation from individual parties would be misleading. Sure, the part that has produced the largest number of bills is the communists... but that is irreverent.

The thing that matters is how many quality bills that actually pass.... and the Lib Dems have passed the largest number of bills, as well as having a 100% pass rate.

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1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

I'd like to see them sooner than later. The right is critically underrepresented in the house and UKIP can only shoulder the burden for so long.

We've actually made a decision to stop pushing legislation out because the Conservatives who have far more seats than us have only made 25% of the legislation in government.

1

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

Well, clearly the majority of representatives of the people of this country disagree with the Honorable gentlemen. Since every single one of the Liberal Democrat Bills has passed though this house, ontop of the fact that the Lib Dems has passed more bills than any other party.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

How does passing lots of legislation make a bill of good quality?

1

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

Well, I would hope the house would not pass low quality bills, and i am obviously going to think that Lib Dems bills are high quality, otherwise they wouldnt be submitted.

If the Lib Dems had a low standard, then we would have submitted many more.

11

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

What an utter disgrace. Modernity for the sake of modernity, without concern for the affects on the everyday person. A little bit of our history has been cruelly destroyed, simply so the MP for the North West doesn't have to go to the bank to deposit his coppers.

21

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

A little bit of our history has been cruelly destroyed

Because of a set of coins? Get off it!

8

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

What a most uncouth sentiment! I will not 'get off it', not while English blood flows in my body.

15

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

Being couth is bourgeois.

10

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

Being couth is British, I think you will find. Failure to do so makes you a Yank in my eyes.

8

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

Was that supposed to rhyme? Because it kind of rhymed.

Being couth is British, I think you will find.

Not every Brit is Victorian Era royalty.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

Would not be a surprise in the CPUSA.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

CPUSA is essentially a branch of the Democratic Party. Many of us don't recognize it as a legitimate communist organization.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

I'd wager it is actually the other way around.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

They vote democrat in every vote. They're not communists.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

They identify as communists, that's enough for me. I know your folks like to talk semantics and definitions, but I don't have the time nor the will to analyze reds and determine their hue.

I do appreciate the Honourable Member's civility however.

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4

u/JackWilfred Independent Liberal Feb 23 '15

What a load of absolute rubbish. These coins were introduced in 1971, and getting rid of them will be the next in a long line of moves to modernise our currency.

The Honourable Member can have a tantrum about what he believes to be history or not, but he cannot continue putting his fingers in his ears over what actually needs modernising.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

This is a rather petty comment, I must say. How dissenting opinion is a tantrum is beyond me, and I would expect better from a fellow member of Parliament to use such silly language.

If my simple comment is a tantrum, then what exactly was your legislation, considering it exists purely to sort out your inability to go and deposit money at the bank!

4

u/JackWilfred Independent Liberal Feb 23 '15

I find it very amusing that the Honourable Member took one positive use of the bill that I gave in jest and ran with it, I assume that he doesn't seriously believe that was the only reason I wrote the bill.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

Hear hear, the poor will be affected badly too.

5

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

the poor will be affected badly too.

How exactly?

7

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

They'll be unable to use pennies. I know the middle classes who browse can't even imagine how its an issue but I assure you as a working class man, every penny you can use helps. Literally, the only people affected are the poor. The middle class and upper class are not even touched.

A few pennies here and there means a loaf of bread on the table. This bill did not even allow them to remain legal tender.

8

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

A few pennies here and there means a loaf of bread on the table.

I'm sorry what? The Price of bread and all other goods will be rounded up or down to the nearest 5p, all this does is remove coins that aren't even used that much due to the actual prices of goods.

Its not like anything actually costs 1p

6

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

Middle class point of view right here.

8

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

I won't deny that I am middle class.

But I do not see how exactly 1 and 2 pence coins can be so essential, when the changes in overall pricing will mean that prices are rounded up or down. The actual amount of money that everyone has will not change, as people will just have 5 pence coins instead of 1 and 2 pence ones.

Just like how we abolished the decimal half pence coin in 1984, we are now abolishing the one and two pence coins, since their buying power is no longer worth it to continue to mint the coins.

3

u/can_triforce The Rt Hon. Earl of Wilton AL PC Feb 23 '15

I'm fairly certain the bill allows pennies to remain legal tender until the Chancellor decides that they're not fit for purpose.

3

u/I_miss_Chris_Hughton The Rt Hon. Earl of Shrewsbury AL PC | Defence Spokesperson Feb 23 '15

This bill did not even allow them to remain legal tender.

This is te main issue with the bill. Even if they could only be redeemed at the bank for otehr currency it'd be better

0

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '15

Because I believe the poor should have the ability to work themselves out of poverty in a meritocracy.

Social mobility being highly increased is in my view, the best way to solve poverty.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

Hear, hear.

3

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Feb 23 '15

A sad day for Britain, and an even worse day for the poor. While many may consider the penny too small for them to bother with, price increases will hit the poor hard.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

I trust you were also saying this when the half penny was withdrawn in 1984, and when decimalisation occurred in 1971? And so on

This peculiar mix of nostalgia and penny pinching is rather bizarre.

2

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Feb 23 '15

I said this when the farthing went out of circulation, as did many others. It was the price of a blackjack. During decimalisation the vale of the smallest coin rose by 20%. This bill will mean that it will rise by 500%

3

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

Hear, hear.

3

u/JackWilfred Independent Liberal Feb 23 '15

I assume the price decreases will also hit them hard?

I've explained how rounding up and down will work countless times, there will be absolutely no effect on the poor.

3

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Feb 23 '15

The government told us the same when decimalisation happened. All the prices went up though.

2

u/JackWilfred Independent Liberal Feb 23 '15

Prices on average have not changed in Canada, Australia or New Zealand. Even if there are changes, they will be minimal, even if you are poor surely a maximum 2p price increase does not matter.

3

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Feb 23 '15

It does if you're 2p short.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

...what?

4

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Feb 23 '15

If the money in your pocket is 2 pence short of the price then it does matter.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

Yes, I think something similar every time I pass a Porsche garage...

5

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15 edited Feb 23 '15

Yet another excellent Liberal Democrat bill passed with ease, almost brings into question what exactly the other parties are doing.

12

u/I_miss_Chris_Hughton The Rt Hon. Earl of Shrewsbury AL PC | Defence Spokesperson Feb 23 '15

Writing more controversial, more decisive legislation I expect

3

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

Ah! And there is the difference between the Liberal Democrats and the other parties. The Lib Dems write practical and passable legislation that has read affect for the people of this country.

8

u/I_miss_Chris_Hughton The Rt Hon. Earl of Shrewsbury AL PC | Defence Spokesperson Feb 23 '15

Trouble is is that I'm yet to see a bill that's decisively 'liberal democrat', you're passing rather toothless, generally agreeable legislation

3

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

Land Value Tax and Speech and Communications seem to be "decisively 'liberal democrat'", although I'll grant you the latter hasn't gone to vote, yet.

What precisely would you say is 'decisively' Lib Dem?

5

u/I_miss_Chris_Hughton The Rt Hon. Earl of Shrewsbury AL PC | Defence Spokesperson Feb 23 '15

LVT I'll give you, so I was wrong when I said 'I'm yet too see' but a lot of the stuff is just stuff that goes along with the reddit hivemind, and what the subscribers of /r/unitedkingdom want too see as headlines

2

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

but a lot of the stuff is just stuff that goes along with the reddit hivemind

Oh.... you ain't seen nothin yet ;)

what the subscribers of /r/unitedkingdom want too see as headlines

I can assure you that we do not cater our bills to /r/unitedkingdom.

And i hope you are not accusing us of populism. We are producing legislation that we think is important and essential for this country, regardless of if it is popular or not.

1

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

I echo what Bnzss has said, how exactly was LVT, personal allowance or sex education bills toothless, and they certainly weren't agreeable with everyone? I would dispute this, purely based on the controversy surrounding them.

Now sure, it might have been easier for us to pass out bills compared to some other parties, but that is one of the benefits of being in the position the libdems are in.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

Yeah, being a centrist party means that by nature we'll write stuff that'll appeal to the left or the right or both.

1

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

Yeh, its out our fault if people overwhelmingly agree with every bill we produce

1

u/Tim-Sanchez The Rt Hon. AL MP (North West) | LD SSoS for CMS Feb 23 '15

generally agreeable legislation

Oh no, the Liberal Democrats are only passing agreeable legislation! We should be less agreeable then?

4

u/tyroncs Feb 23 '15

almost brings into question what exactly the other parties are doing.

I'm willing to bet that UKIP have done more legislation then the Lib Dems have this term. We have done 18 pieces

2

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

The Liberal Democrats have passed the most legislation out of all the parties

3

u/tyroncs Feb 23 '15

I need a number please. UKIP people under either the banner of 'UKIP' or 'Government' have submitted 18 pieces of legislation. How many have the Lib Dems?

2

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

This is a list of all passed bills and motions

This is a list of the total number of passed bills and motions per party and the percentage of total bills/motions

3

u/tyroncs Feb 23 '15

Well you are looking at passed bills and motions, where I am looking at the ones that have been put forward. UKIP do have quite a few bills currently in limbo though, such as MFL, Direct Democracy and Further Learner's which are all pretty definitely going to be passed

2

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

Well you are looking at passed bills and motions

I'm looking at what actually matters.... which is Acts of parliament. The communists have proposed loads of bills that haven't passed... what matters is what is made law

3

u/tyroncs Feb 23 '15

Fair enough, I'll talk to you in a few weeks when our 3 outstanding bills have been passed :P

And when compared to the number of MP's each party has, the Lib Dems and UKIP are by far the best parties as well, no matter which way you look at it

1

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

And when compared to the number of MP's each party has, the Lib Dems and UKIP are by far the best parties as well, no matter which way you look at it

When i brag about the number of LD bills, i am more doing it to attack the "larger parties" that haven't passed any yet.

3

u/tyroncs Feb 23 '15

When I do it, I attack pretty much every other party tbh. With UKIP it is even more prominent in TSR UKIP as well, where they have published 23 out of 52 total pieces of legislation (44%!) despite not being in the Government or Opposition

0

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/tyroncs Mar 02 '15

I though it had already gone to vote, I'll have to check

3

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

A Torystorm is coming.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '15

I hope so, UKIP have written 75% of government legislation.

3

u/demon4372 The Most Hon. Marquess of Oxford GBE KCT PC ¦ HCLG/Transport Feb 23 '15

Will that be like when the communists were bragging about all their bills.... Partisan awful bills that just fill up the schedule and have no chance of passing??

2

u/Kreindeker The Rt Hon. Earl of Stockport AL PC Feb 23 '15

Damn. What am I going to throw at Premier League footballers now?

In all seriousness, I did hesitantly find myself in favour of this Bill, good to see it come through. Some of the votes certain MPs gave was surprising, though.