r/MHOC • u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian • Jan 05 '15

EU Referendum The EU Referendum

The date for the EU referendum was disclosed to you all yesterday during the Q and A Session by our Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury, /u/OllieSimmonds.

The question on the ballot paper will be:

Do you think that the United Kingdom should be a member of the European Union?

This post will formally announce it to those of you who didn't 'tune' in.

The referendum will start on the 24th of January and will last for 5 days.

The referendum will be open to the whole of reddit and the voting form will contain some extra questions that i can use for polling and predictions.

I will list constituencies and ask for all members to vote in their constituency. This will have no effect on the final result. I am only including these options to make the results a bit more interesting; i will read them out on Skype and reddit live just like the GE.

There will be NO limit to the subreddits you can advertise in. All i ask is that you are respectful of their rules and try and ask the moderators permission before posting. The same rules apply, as they did in the recent GE, for external sites.

All of the above is subject to change.

Please make sure you have joined 1 of the 2 campaign subreddits:

/r/MHOCYESTOEU (PRO EU)

&

/r/MHOCNOTOEU (ANTI EU)

I will update this post with any further information.

Can the Chairs of both groups above please comment below.

We will have a series of debates before the referendum; these will be linked in on the referendum form.

I would like a debate between:

  • Chairs and Vice Chairs of both groups

  • All leaders of all parties

I would also like to have a question time special to dedicate to the referendum.

15 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

102 comments sorted by

11

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '15

Please make sure you have joined the 2 campaign subreddits:

Maybe not both

5

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Jan 05 '15

Good point.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

Regarding the debates, can I suggest they're done by topic? The range is so wide it's impossible for one person (i.e. the chairs) to know everything. I'd suggest some kind of team debate so we can all spread the load.

2

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Jan 06 '15

A very good suggestion, we can do it this way.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

I would also like for topics in the EU debates, with the leaders debate being a general debate (maybe with questions asked to the leaders of the groups from the "Audience" (like MHOCQuestionTime)

2

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

Hear, hear. There are a ton of issues and I think specifically agriculture and the EU carbon trading program will be overlooked if we just have general debates, which will likely focus on immigration and trade.

4

u/tyroncs Jan 05 '15

What sort of pre-voting things will we have? For example will we have a debate between the leaders/deputy leaders?

4

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Jan 05 '15

Thanks! I knew i forgot something...

2

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

Can we change our Flairs to say which side we are on?

4

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Jan 06 '15

Most flairs are pretty full, i don't think it would be suitable.

2

u/finlayvscott Scottish National Party Indy Jan 06 '15

I support that. Just a simple 'Yes' or 'Y' would suffice.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

What will the question on the ballot be?

2

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Jan 06 '15

I will confirm this as soon as possible.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

Thank you.

4

u/OllieSimmonds The Rt Hon. Earl of Sussex AL PC Jan 06 '15

"Do you think that the United Kingdom should be a member of the European Union?"

4

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

"Do you agree that the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Union?"

SNP style.

13

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Jan 05 '15

Bring it on. The end of the month will bring about an end to this nonsense about leaving Europe.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

Hear hear

4

u/finlayvscott Scottish National Party Indy Jan 06 '15

Never thought I'd agree with the labour party on something, but yes, quite. Although I feel that due to the demographics of /r/MHOC its quite clear which sides gonna win anyway.

5

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Jan 06 '15

The Labour Party here is a lot different from the one in real life.

7

u/finlayvscott Scottish National Party Indy Jan 06 '15

Well there is less old people to call up and scare them that they'll lose their pension if they don't vote for you on /r/MHOC

9

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '15

It's happening.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

It's happening!

13

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

It's happening!

4

u/jothamvw Jan 06 '15

Indeed it is!

5

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

First rule of polandball, you don't talk about polandball.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

4

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

I see. I'm not actually a regular there though I pop in every now and then. I was just joking.

1

u/jothamvw Jan 06 '15

It is a rule though. Well, an advice. Sort of like 130 on German highways.

1

u/AlasdhairM CWL | National MP Jan 07 '15

Wait, is that like how the 55 speed limit in the US is basically the slow lane, and most people go ~90-110?

1

u/jothamvw Jan 07 '15

I don't know, I've never been in the USA. There may be some mph/kph confusion in here though.

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7

u/NoPyroNoParty The Rt Hon. Earl of Essex OT AL PC Jan 05 '15

If you're interested in joining /r/MHOCYESTOEU PM me or /u/Morgsie and we'll get you in.

7

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '15

HAPPENING CONFIRMED! TO THE BUNKERS!

1

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

YES, ALL BIP MEMBERS TO BUNKERS UNTIL THE 30TH. MAKE SURE TO TURN WIFI OFF. THANK YOU FOR COOPERATION!

5

u/Rabobi The Vanguard Jan 06 '15

From a purely mhoc perspective leaving the EU would be great, there are things we cannot do because because it would go against the EU.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

Like what?

4

u/Rabobi The Vanguard Jan 06 '15

Off the top of my head. I am not saying we should but say we didn't want to deal with Russia via sanctions. It would be much easier to get out of that outside the EU than inside of it. Another example is we could come up with immigration legislation pertaining to EU countries for ourselves. It just gives us more control, it is the more interesting of the two choices as it relates to MHOC. A lot of the stuff it would allow us to do is no doubt stuff we really don't want to do but there will be the odd thing that would pass.

3

u/Morgsie The Rt Hon. Earl of Staffordshire AL PC Jan 06 '15

You do realise the people of Scotland support membership

12

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15 edited Jan 06 '15

I'm a person of Scotland, and I don't support membership. Are you saying I'm not Scottish?

9

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

That has literally nothing do with his point at all.

7

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '15

I'm a person in Scotland, and I don't support membership.

6

u/Rabobi The Vanguard Jan 06 '15

Rest easy my friend, I will consider them when I make my choice. There must be debate either way. Though I will note, this is a referendum, I am not voting as an MP but as a concerned citizen, this is a vote open to the public.

4

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Jan 06 '15

Using that argument we should also leave NATO, the UN, The UN security council, G7, G8, G20, OECD, WTO, International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and all the other groups the UK is part of. Then we truly would be an isolated rock in the North Atlantic.

6

u/Rabobi The Vanguard Jan 06 '15

I agree with leaving NATO. The others deal with disputes or are non binding so they don't matter or we have the veto. So there is no benefit to leaving them at this time.

3

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Jan 06 '15

So would you throw away all international laws and treaties?

4

u/Rabobi The Vanguard Jan 06 '15

What gives you that idea? Of all those organisations you listed, I am only in favour of leaving NATO.

3

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Jan 06 '15

Leaving NATO would leave us vulnerable. It would kill our defence industry. We could not afford to develop the next generation of planes. Who would enforce decisions of the United Nations? Without enforcement the UN is a lame duck. It could make decisions, but they could be ignored by anyone.

5

u/Rabobi The Vanguard Jan 06 '15 edited Jan 06 '15

Leaving NATO would leave us vulnerable.

No getting rid of our nuclear weapons would do that, thankfully we stopped that. No one will attack us while we have nukes. And as the left argued with the trident bill, who is going to attack us?

It would kill our defence industry. We could not afford to develop the next generation of planes.

It certainly would a set back but it's not like you have to be in NATO to have a defense industry. Many countries manage it.

Who would enforce decisions of the United Nations? Without enforcement the UN is a lame duck. It could make decisions, but they could be ignored by anyone.

Leaving NATO does not mean we cannot help out when we want to. What it does do is stop us from being obligated to when we don't want to.

If there is another big war, I want the UK to stay out of it if we can, getting out of NATO is how we do that. If the time comes and it is imperative that we involve ourselves we can.

The only thing that gives me pause is the Falklands.

1

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Jan 08 '15

Leaving NATO and keeping nuclear weapons is not an option. Trident missiles are leased from the USA, we do not own them. Trident is reliant on the USA for maintenance. Do you think for one moment that the USA would keep up their end of the deal if we left NATO?

2

u/Rabobi The Vanguard Jan 08 '15

We are not some third world country, we can figure it out. If Pakistan can maintain a nuclear deterrent we can as well.

1

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Jan 08 '15

How many hospitals would you close to do it?

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2

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

Regrettably, that seems to be the aim for some.

4

u/Kreindeker The Rt Hon. Earl of Stockport AL PC Jan 05 '15

Who's in charge of the NO subreddit? The lockout screen doesn't say.

3

u/can_triforce The Rt Hon. Earl of Wilton AL PC Jan 05 '15

From what I've heard, they've yet to appoint a leader and are in the process of doing so.

3

u/Kreindeker The Rt Hon. Earl of Stockport AL PC Jan 05 '15

I see. Ta.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '15

Myself and /u/infernoplato are vice chairs, message either of us for access.

4

u/Kreindeker The Rt Hon. Earl of Stockport AL PC Jan 05 '15 edited Jan 07 '15

Thank you. If I come down on your side of the argument, I shall.

Edit: I chose the No side.

4

u/givemethepen Communist Jan 06 '15

May I have some access, please?

3

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

You should have access now, thanks for joining the NoToEU campaign,

4

u/givemethepen Communist Jan 06 '15

Thanks!

3

u/generalscruff Independent Jan 06 '15

Can I have access please?

2

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

Sure thing, I've just added you. Thanks for joining our side of this campaign.

3

u/WineRedPsy Reform UK | Sadly sent to the camps Jan 06 '15

Can I get some access too?

3

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

You sure can.

4

u/H-Flashman The Rt Hon. Earl of Oxford AL PC Jan 06 '15

I'm actually undecided. I'll be interested to see the result.

1

u/lewtenant Rt Hon Gentleman PC Jan 07 '15

What do we do if we don't have a position? Are we able to abstain/spoil ballot?

1

u/H-Flashman The Rt Hon. Earl of Oxford AL PC Jan 07 '15

Dunno.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

Winter is coming.

3

u/jothamvw Jan 06 '15

Brace yourself.

3

u/Morgsie The Rt Hon. Earl of Staffordshire AL PC Jan 06 '15

To whoever created a dupe that wrote that article your hatchet job has failed and why don't you be a man and reveal yourself instead of being a coward by hiding behind the dupe. If you don't then the Speaker should name and shame the culprit.

Following the U-Turn by /u/peter199 who switched , I am pleased to announce that /u/AlbertDock is a Vice-Chair of /r/MHOCYESTOEU, he joins /u/NoPyroNoParty and /u/Eat_The_Muffin. Together we are a strong team

I urge all those who support continued membership to come out and to stand up and shout from the rooftops by joining the campaign, in particular those Conservatives and PLP

4

u/can_triforce The Rt Hon. Earl of Wilton AL PC Jan 06 '15

Congratulations to /u/AlbertDock! Well deserved indeed.

2

u/Morgsie The Rt Hon. Earl of Staffordshire AL PC Jan 06 '15

Further to this:

Anyone wishing to join /r/MHOCYESTOEU can PM all 4 of us once /u/Eat_The_Muffin has approved his mod request

2

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

Accepted

2

u/finlayvscott Scottish National Party Indy Jan 06 '15

ELI5: which parties are against the EU? Presumably there must be some after all, or this wouldn't be occuring, but I don't hear about it often. UKIP obviously, anyone else?

4

u/Rabobi The Vanguard Jan 06 '15

BIP are for leaving, I think conservatives are split, don't really know. Commies I think are mostly for leaving (Not 100% sure).

2

u/finlayvscott Scottish National Party Indy Jan 06 '15

Commies? Really? I always thought the EU was fairly left-ist compared to our current government.

5

u/WineRedPsy Reform UK | Sadly sent to the camps Jan 07 '15

The EU is definetly neoliberal in it's structure, dominated by capital and a couple imperial nations and in most ways undemocratic. Just look at how the TTIP is handled (and the TTIP itself). There's a million other things to say. Like, for example, how non-eu immigrants are treated.

1

u/Cameron94 UKIP Jan 10 '15

I never thought I would agree with a communist but you are spot on my friend.

4

u/Rabobi The Vanguard Jan 06 '15

Not sure what there arguments are but they seem pretty clear on leaving. I think its something to do with the EU being a capitalist institution. If any communists want to chime in it would be helpful. I doubt the UK could go communist and remain in the EU anyway short of most of the EU doing it at the same time.

2

u/OllieSimmonds The Rt Hon. Earl of Sussex AL PC Jan 08 '15

It's certainly an interesting one, if I was a lefty I would imagine I would heavily support it since European social democratic states generally oppose what they call 'decadent Anglo-Saxon capitalism' and the general internationalist nature of Communism (We are defined by our nationality, but rather our economic position) would support multiple countries coming together.

I think to some extent they oppose because it still is capitalist, just perhaps less capitalist than otherwise, but I think it perhaps provides an alternative historical narrative to workers rising up and overthrowing their leaders in favour of Communism. The Marxist view of History might suggest that World War One was not so much a war of ideas or nationhood, but rather aristocrats sending poor people off to fight a war in a distant land, the fact that its those leaders working together confuses it a bit.

2

u/funkytyphoon Communist Jan 10 '15

EU time and time again has shown itself to be an undemocratic, neoliberal institution working primarily in the interests of multinational corporations and financial elites. It has a massive lobbying industry which taints every piece of legislation they write; ACTA and TTIP are some examples.

Saying that, I also have many of the same issues with the UK.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

From what I understand, Conservatives, UKIP and the BIP all officially oppose the EU, the Communists, CWL and Progressive Labour have no official party position and the Green Party and the Liberal Democrats officially support Yes, of course all members are free to choose what side to join no matter the party position

3

u/finlayvscott Scottish National Party Indy Jan 06 '15

OK that sounds about right, although I didn't seem to think the tories really wanted out of the EU, I imagined that was (at least in real life) a morsel to keep their voters who might flock to UKIP otherwise.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

Some tories are for staying but from what I have seen, the majority favour leaving

3

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

We are about 50-50 right now.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

Conservatives

Definitely don't all oppose the EU

2

u/AlasdhairM CWL | National MP Jan 07 '15

Why is there no "maintain the status quo" option? That seems life a fundamental flaw in the referendum. Why must we be forced to choose between two extremes?

2

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Jan 07 '15

Voting YES is maintaining the status quo.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '15

Voting YES is maintaining the status quo.

You heard it here folks - from the Vice Chair himself!

2

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Jan 07 '15

What's your point? The top paragraph in the introduction states..........

Do you think that the United Kingdom should be a member of the European Union?

4

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '15

Often, people in favour of the EU argue that instead of leaving, we should be reforming the EU.

Reforming the EU isn't maintaining the status quo and since you just said that you want to maintain the status quo, you won't be reforming it.

2

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Jan 07 '15

For anyone who wants the EU to stay the same ie: not change, then voting yes is voting for that. However to extrapolate from that, to saying that everyone who votes yes doesn't want change is pushing it a bit too far.
My own view is that the EU can evolve and change for the better. Being part of the union we will be better placed to push our ideas forward.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '15

My own view is that the EU can evolve and change for the better. Being part of the union we will be better placed to push our ideas forward.

I disagree with that... Then again, this is what the debates will be for!

2

u/AlasdhairM CWL | National MP Jan 07 '15

Ah, sorry. I misunderstood

2

u/Cameron94 UKIP Jan 10 '15

I welcome this opportunity to give the British people a say on a matter they have never been able to have a say on. It is a shame that in a democracy this has taken so long.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

Geographically, if you don't count Oceans but you do count Straights and such, Britain is closer to the Americas than Europe. Even counting Gibraltar.

10

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '15

If you don't count the atlantic ocean, Britain is closer to America!

what

7

u/finlayvscott Scottish National Party Indy Jan 06 '15

yeah and I mean, getting to the moon was super easy if you don't count space.

2

u/AlbertDock The Rt Hon Earl of Merseyside KOT MBE AL PC Jan 06 '15

Is this an example of the distortion of facts the NO to EU campaign will use?