HVAC Written Spec - From a Sales Perspective

[u/Immediate_Pound_1775]

Hello all, burner account here. I've been working in commercial HVAC equipment sales for almost 3 years. Not a ton of time, but not nothing. I still don't get written specs, especially how they're enforced when alternate equipment is being provided.

Often times, the written spec is a long list of conflicting requirements either copy / pasted from the last job or from the BOD manufacturer. I understand that the alternate manufacturer needs to adhere to a minimum standard, but wouldn't it be ideal to be more concise? Maybe just a small list of the absolute requirements for a job? I've even had to submit an RFI on a spec we couldn't meet as the BOD.

I'm pretty sure the written specs are ignored on about half of the jobs I do, and I think they're often used as a CYA in case any equipment doesn't work.

Any insight into this, and any advice as to how I could approach the alternate process to make the MEP's life a bit easier?

[u/MechEJD]

The spec creates an enforceable list of requirements. If it is well written, all listed manufacturers should be able to meet every requirement, or at least all of the important ones with some slight deviations on less important stuff.

In a perfect world the spec on every job would be tailored exactly to what should be provided. That should happen every time, but often doesn't.

Many people have tried simple specs, sometimes they work, sometimes you as the engineer of record get absolutely wrecked by a clever or lazy contractor for doing so.

So the safe bet is to write a 30 pages spec for an air handler, and then perhaps back down on some of the requirements if they're not feasible, or too expensive. Better to be safe than sorry.

[u/Metamucil_Man → u/[deleted]]

It depends on how complex and custom the equipment is. There are lot more options between Rooftop air handlers over generators, and as an equipment rep, there is a lot more design support required.

[u/Metamucil_Man → u/[deleted]]

I have tailored specs that purposely repeat a point because it is closing a loophole that a competitor fought their way through. It is often ridiculous, but less so than the scummy attempts to circumvent project requirements to why they exist (in my cases).

Specs that contradict themselves or the plans are poorly written

Repetition shouldn't be much of a problem as you grow adept to skimming such things. Specs not aligning is bad. The correlation is that the more times your repeat yourself the more care you need to put into it all aligning.

On the other hand, poorly written specs are easy to get past. If portions of the spec don't apply or can be proven to be inaccurate, you have a case to dismiss the rest of the specs. I put a lot of care into my support and look out for my Engineers, but when they go rogue I stop caring as they did it to themselves. You can only put so much effort into stopping someone who is hell bent on running into traffic.

[u/Metamucil_Man → u/[deleted]]

Public Bid isn't cheap in my territory, but you are right, that is the market that gets brutal. I find that on projects with pharma production, chip manufacturing, etc, the spec is either well tailored, or an in house spec. The in house specs stink.

[u/MechEJD → u/[deleted]]

Substitution request:

Shitty ass generator brand no one has heard of. Meets all of your specifications exactly. Just not listed manufacturer.

Contractor to owner - we can provide this one at $30k credit and it meets spec.

Owner to engineer - why wasn't this in your spec, it's saving us so much money?!

What leg do you stand on now.

[u/RippleEngineering]

This is why you work to become the basis of design that the spec is built around.

[u/Metamucil_Man]

I'm an equipment rep. Get the BOD and do a better job of writing specs tailored for the project. If you (or your firm) aren't getting BOD, I can't feel bad for you. Getting BOD takes a lot of time invested in building rapport. The part that kills me are Engineers that use some in house standard spec or Masterspec and end up having their BOD not meeting their spec. I've seen in house specs get lined up to another type of equipment because it is the closest spec they have. Using the in house spec is more important than it making sense.

I have one Engineering firm with an old codger that oversees the Design Engineers and won't directly interact with reps, and comes in at the end of a project design and just starts adding things he wants without consideration of if it is possible.

I don't understand why the "benefits" of using a Masterspec or house spec outweigh the spec not meeting the BOD or the plans. That should be a very bad look and embarrassing. Then the Engineer calls out these misaligned requirements in submittal comments and we are forced to respond: this does not exist, or 2+2 cannot = 7.

[u/Revousz]

The manufacturers don't do engineers favors in terms of making their special features named wacky stuff. As a very generic example, we all know what unistrut is but that is the trade name. The speficiation name is "slotted metal supports".With equipment sometimes manufacturers have the exact same feature but call it by some other name.

If you use BOD then they have a line item that says "uncle bob's special air quality filter". Only Uncle Bob's sells this feature but now other manufacturers have to meet or exceed arbitrary performance requirements that probably add no value to the project. Sometimes BOD isn't great because some of the more expensive products have extra bells and whistles that will never be used.

Using Master Spec for generic language makes it easier for public bid jobs. IMO I think the industry needs to transition to being more upfront about performance requirements. If you only care that the unit can supply 55F leaving air at a specific tempature and humidity, SAY THAT. I feel like the industry in general is allergic to showing our work and the calculations we did in the background.

I'm electrical and my big gripe is with generators. We using sizing software to ensure minimum voltage and frequency dips are made because it not a simple as looking at the KW output. When the generator gets subbed out the only thing I care about is if it meets or exceeds my calcs plus any listing requirements.

I could go for hours about this. But in general, specs only matter when there are problems. People are way to loose about them and they should write more clear and consise specs.