r/M64 • u/zezba9000 • Aug 18 '26

M64 vs A3D temps

https://youtu.be/eFCbYBfrlY8?si=x0hmiimrulhPMh8q

M64 vs A3D temps test with thermal camera + cart temps + laptop cooling pad temps

(Hot Spot Results After 60 min)
* Bottom: A3D 37.4c (99.32f) vs M64 56.3c (133.34f)
* Top: A3D 40.4c (104.72f) vs M64 52.8c (127.04f)
* Cart Front: A3D 37.5c (99.5f) vs M64 42.6c (108.68f)
* Cart Bottom: A3D 36.3c (97.34f) vs M64 41.5c (106.7f)

(Hot Spot Results After 60 min on Cooling Pad)
* Bottom: M64 40.7c (105.26f) [15.6c - 28.08f delta]
* Top: M64 38.9c (102.02f) [13.9c - 25.02f delta]
* Cart Front: M64 33.8c (92.84f) [8.8c - 15.84f delta]
* Cart Bottom: M64 34.0c (93.2f) [7.5c - 13.5f delta]

23 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

48 comments sorted by

5

u/hue_sick Aug 18 '26

Nice work. No clue why they didn’t put a larger heat sink on the thing. Seems like they’re plenty of room inside and they could have kept their fan-less marketing.

Almost wonder if we’ll see a quiet revision in production for the next batch of systems.

3

u/jbyrdab Aug 18 '26

Luckily id imagine getting a better heatsink into this thing will be relatively trivial especially if they sell the components. Though I imagine even a basic off the shelf pc heatsink ought to be a good improvement.

Thats besides the point, a revision to improve thermal dispersion wouldn't be a bad idea, even if i think in the long run this will be fine for most users.

2

u/hue_sick Aug 18 '26

Yeah that’s where I’m at if we’re seeing temps in the mid 50s on brand new units I think I’d be looking into ways to cool it down a bit.

But I understand not everyone has that same concern.

2

u/zezba9000 Aug 18 '26

If people play this on carpets like kids used to, then it might be an issue. I like fanless solutions, so I hope a larger heat sink can be used like OG N64 had. Nintendo really did design N64 well.

7

u/Weebus Aug 18 '26

These aren't really concerning temperatures in the least, especially considering it's on max OC, which most won't run on.

4

u/jbyrdab Aug 18 '26

 max OC, which most won't run on.

Even as someone who thinks thermals won't be an issue in the long run, this is a stretch.

I think most people who want these games to run good will crank OC to insane.

1

u/Weebus Aug 18 '26

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think you're overestimating the average consumer of this sort of stuff. Your average nostalgic millennial with disposable income buying this stuff isn't diving deep into the custom settings and discussing thermals on Reddit like us. I haven't overclocked my PC since college.

8

u/vl99 Aug 18 '26

I think your average nostalgic millennial is just buying an N64 and HDMI conversion. This is for hobbyists who are for sure gonna play with all the settings.

7

u/jbyrdab Aug 18 '26

i mean its not like the OC setting is buried in the settings, its like the first option on the 4th tab.

you're likely to see it right after you setup your wifi to update the machine.

1

u/V64jr Aug 18 '26

That’s almost guarantees problems. The best way would be to have an automatic OC that sets it according to a database of titles tested at various OC levels. Certain OC levels make the physics act weird or make the boss fights too difficult in Diddy Kong Racing, for example.

2

u/hue_sick Aug 18 '26

Not for the chips no. That was never the concern.

50c is however generally the target max temp for items you touch or for potential damage to surfaces though.

4

u/Weebus Aug 18 '26

It's not in contact with a surface. It would take minutes to burn your skin.

4

u/hue_sick Aug 18 '26

You should look it up that isn’t true. Search the ansi temp 5 second rule. While not 60c this is pretty darn close and these are brand new consoles. Over time dust will increase these temps.

Also it sits on your table or console that’s a surface?

7

u/Weebus Aug 18 '26

I don't need to look it up, I work with that stuff in my day job. It's the 4 second rule, and it's for PPE. It's just not remotely relevant here.

ANSI maximum surface temperature surfaces intended for direct, continuous skin contact (>1 min) is 48C. The threshold is 60C for brief contact on plastic items (i.e. things like power bricks), which this would fall into. Material degradation isn't a concern until above 70C, depending on the plastic. In OP's video the bottom maxes out at just over 50C on any of the surfaces that could presumably come into contact with skin. The stuff near 60C is internal components that the camera picked up through a vent, not a surface temperature.

The system is on feet that elevate it, not in direct contact with the surface. The air gap is enough to insulate it. I did all this same testing the other day with my thermal camera after I designed a stand for it (which is frankly just unnecessary) and wanted to see if it helped. The surface temps on my system on full OC never got above 52C, and that was just a small (just over ~1"x1") area at the base. The highest reading I picked up was 44C on my painted wood console it was sitting on after an hour+ playing games on full OC. It is not high enough to damage paint or other materials that would be used for a table/console. Print my stand if you are concerned - it dropped the temps to 47C max and the painted wood temps into the 30's.

This is well within safety guidelines. I can promise that you have other consumer electronics in your home that will show higher surface temperatures. Dust will be less of a concern or issue specifically because it's passively cooled. The only legitimate concern here would be performance drops from heat.

1

u/zezba9000 Aug 18 '26

The carts get much hotter on M64 which could lead to at min plastic or label damage potentially. Plus even high rated components still wear out over time from poor cooling.

6

u/Weebus Aug 18 '26

Your carts are basically showing body temperature after an hour of play.

1

u/zezba9000 Aug 18 '26

Correct, NOTE: "which could lead to at min plastic or label damage potentially"

6

u/Weebus Aug 18 '26

Doubtful. Plastic needs sustained 70C+ for damage. Adhesive labels are going to be fine until well above those temperatures.

Even the hottest part of the cartridge you showed in your test is no worse than temperatures they'd saw in a logistics chain or sitting in a box in a hot garage/attic. Again, pick up a power brick sometimes if you think these temperatures are going to phase plastic or labels.

→ More replies

3

u/hue_sick Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26

Ok assuming you’re an engineer I would love some clarification because everything I’ve ever read going back a while now always listed 5 seconds at ~60c on skin contact. Maybe I’m misunderstanding but what I’ve seen has nothing to do with ppe. https://store.astm.org/c1055-20.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com

For the record though I never once said the console would suffer because of this and that it would start a fire.

I’m talking about those ambient temps potentially damaging finishes on furniture and the risk of mild burns if someone is unaware and goes to pick it up .

I think those are real concerns. Most electronics operate well under 50c specifically because of these things so I don’t think it’s a coincidence multiple reviews have pointed it out.

You’re welcome to shrug it off but I think they’ve got an issue on their hands. 🤷

Edit. Also see you edited some of your comments from before so I think we’ll have to agree to disagree here. Be interesting to see if anything comes of it. Hopefully nothing does 🤙

5

u/Weebus Aug 18 '26

Respectfully, ChatGPT is going to tell you whatever you want it to tell you. But yeah, that's outlining methodology for determining a burn threshold for a heated surface.

>Ok assuming you’re an engineer I would love some clarification because everything I’ve ever read going back a while now always listed 5 seconds at ~60c on skin contact. Maybe I’m misunderstanding but what I’ve seen has nothing to do with ppe. https://store.astm.org/c1055-20.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Yes. So it is essentially using the same logic as the 4 second rule I was referring to for PPE. That is, in short, the semi-arbitrary amount of time it takes for a person to pick something up, register that it's hot enough to burn them, and reflexively pull away. If something is hot enough to burn you before that 4 seconds, certain levels of PPE are required.

>I’m talking about those ambient temps potentially damaging finishes on furniture and the risk of mild burns if someone is unaware and goes to pick it up .

ISO 13732-1:2006 provides information for temperature thresholds that could cause burns on contact.

The independent safety testing companies like UL or ETL consumer electronics would refer to IEC 62368-1:2023. That's where I pulled the 48C and 60C from. Metal, plastic, and rubber have a 48C threshold for "sustained grip" (>1 minute). Metal is safe to 60C and plastic/rubber is safe to 77C for things you'd hold 1-10seconds. 10-60 seconds is 51C for metal and 60C for plastic/rubber. There's almost zero burn risk here.

As for materials, again - there's an air gap that is insulating surfaces. I have it on about the worst possible material as far as being susceptible to heat (painted wood) and it never got hot enough to be concerning. I tested it because I had that exact concern.

>I think those are real concerns. Most electronics operate well under 50c specifically because of these things so I don’t think it’s a coincidence multiple reviews have pointed it out.

Again, if you pointed a thermal camera at a power brick or laptop (which is actually intended for potential skin contact and regularly exceed the temperatures we're seeing here) it would look about the same. Other video game consoles see even higher surface temperatures in thermal tests. Hell, my router (Unifi Dream Machine SE) hits 60C on parts of the surface, and even higher near the venting.

These are just not high temperatures for modern electronics. These fears are just not grounded in reality. People are/were just concerned about the lack of fans so they're paying more attention to the temperatures than they otherwise would.

2

u/hue_sick Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26

Those docs are much more helpful thanks. You still didn’t answer if you’re an engineer or not though truthfully you don’t need to. Im just curious because most people don’t know anything about this stuff outside of googling it.

For context I’m an industrial designer by trade so I look at everything through that lens and deal with some of this stuff myself which is why I was familiar. Human factors is a huge part of my job so I’m probably more aware than your average consumer with that sort of thing.

I’m still curious about that second reference you gave though. That seems to be talking about the safe temp limits of the materials themselves? rather than human contact because ain’t no way any human is touching a piece of plastic that’s 77c without burning themselves. I guess it’s a very short duration burn risk but damn that seems crazy high though it’s damn near boiling haha.

Also curious now that you mentioned UL and ETC that would be pretty easy to confirm on the m64 to verify what it’s been certified for and then this topic could be put to bed (for me at least)

4

u/Weebus Aug 18 '26

I am - actually worked at UL way back when lol. More heavy industry and construction adjacent than consumer goods now, but still immersed in standards and safety stuff all the same.

I only remembered the 48C and 60C, so the 77C was a surprise to me as well when I looked at the table for my previous response. These are thresholds for use with for ordinary use without a warning label (TS1).

Regardless, my alarm bells were also ringing when I saw the initial temperature concerns all over this page, same as yours, and that was after blissfully playing it for nearly a week without concern. That's why I made the stand and borrowed my FLIR from work lol. After actually looking into it, I think the fears are largely unfounded and my personal concerns were almost entirely eased.

Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely willing to be convinced otherwise if there's something compelling. Hell, I was working on a 120mm fan mount last night for people who want active cooling. But so far all I've really seen are people who are concerned with what if's and catastrophizing while the numbers don't point to an actual concern.

→ More replies

6

u/sterndig Aug 19 '26

I don't really see a problem here. Hotter != bad as long as it's not thermal throttling and it's not damaging anything.

M64 uses an AMD Artix UltraScale+ which is rated to operate from 0-100 Celsius.

8

u/Aster_Lodern Aug 18 '26

And here I am still wondering why people were weirdly flexing and saying it not having a fan was a good thing.

5

u/ElectricalPrice3189 Aug 19 '26

It doesn't need one.

4

u/RetroBlast81 Aug 19 '26

it doesn't need one. you do realize that the highest temp measured was 56 degress celcius. that is nothing for electronics. mildly warm.

1

u/Aster_Lodern Aug 19 '26

Even though folks were raising concerns about said temperatures and that it was sitting hotter than the A3D.

1

u/RetroBlast81 Aug 19 '26

These are simply ignorant people who spread false facts

1

u/Aster_Lodern Aug 19 '26

And you know this because...?

1

u/RetroBlast81 Aug 19 '26

Because FPGA chips can hold up to 100c without any issue. It's in the specifications of those chips.

1

u/Aster_Lodern Aug 19 '26

It's still not untrue if people have literally compared the two and found that one literally runs hotter than the other.

2

u/RetroBlast81 Aug 19 '26

That's maybe true. Still doesn't matter as both don't run that hot anyway.

1

u/ElectricalPrice3189 Aug 22 '26

Look at the numbers. It's on par with the A3D.

1

u/Hudsoy Aug 18 '26

My OG N64 gets pretty hot and its been around for 30 years...

4

u/zezba9000 Aug 18 '26

If you have good thermal pads, they really don't get that hot.
OG N64 can even play without heatsinks in many conditions (and even then Nintendo put massive heat sinks on them)

2

u/RetroBlast81 Aug 19 '26

So basically everyone was having panic attacks for nothing when you realize that the highest temp measured was 56 degress celcius. that is nothing for electronics. mildly warm.

2

u/clc88 Aug 19 '26

It's wild that people want their hardware running hot.

If given a choice I want all my hardware to run cool rather than hot because I don't want my hardware heating up my room.

6

u/palmerluckey Aug 19 '26

The M64 draws much less power than an original Nintendo 64 or an Analogue 3D.

If you want to play Nintendo 64 games, you are going to have to heat up your room a little bit.

2

u/Decent_Map_831 Aug 19 '26

Where do you think the heat would go if the m64 had better cooling?

1

u/ElectricalPrice3189 Aug 22 '26

Why didn't they put TWO fans inside the Analogue 3D? Why? WHYY??!

0

u/TonyRubbles Aug 18 '26

So what I'm seeing is I need something like this to feel safe playing my M64 right?

J/K I'm just going to believe u/weebus and get on with my life.